applying for residence order and parental responsibility for me (stepmum) - mother going nuts!

[ladydeedy]

hello
sigh.. sorry, another post (have only just come across this site in the last few days and cant seem to stay away right now!).
Anyway... DH and I are applying for a residence order for his son who has come to live with us and wants to stay (and we want him to stay too!). All happy there. He is 14 and very clear that he doesnt want to go back and live with his mum.
We are making a joint application so that I would also have parental responsibility. This is because DH often abroad for work and it means that practical stuff for son can be dealt with by me if necessary, e.g. signing school/medical forms, without me having to find the mother and get her to sign.
So we thought it would all be a matter of course but...
the mother now going apopleptic with rage saying she doesnt give a f*ck that he lives with us but that she absolutely wont allow ME to have any "legal rights" over the son and will fight tooth and nail as she "doesnt trust me".
Not quite sure how I feel about that, given that I have been his stepmother for years and we have a great relationship! Also if she is happy for me to care for him, then why the big issue over any parental responsibility?
I guess this means she will contest. I dont have a problem with that personally but think this may cause anxiety to the son who may have to go through interviews etc with cafcass as a result.
In addition I'm thinking... any lawyer would ask questions about why she is so adamant and would advise her to forget about it? She basically chucked him out and took his key off him - I'm not sure her view about parental responsibility would really holds much value in the eyes of the court? (although of course she is still his mother).
any thoughts or advice out there? Anyone else been through this? and if so, my sympathies!!

And if it was the other way round, I bet you'd all be quick to stick the boot into the man and say just because he is the father, doesn't always give him rights.

OP I'd try posting on Wikivorce it has male
and female posters and you'll get advice from people who have been through the courts themselves. And you won't get called vile for
posting about this situation. You'll just get impartial advice.

Perhaps for some children where they have lost contact with one parent a step parent steps in and takes that place and it isn't a big deal as the parent is off the scene.

My dd1 went running to her father and step mother shout and screaming about how I had taken her key and chucked her out, goodness did they dance a merry tune for a while 14 months until the sm had had enough of the merry tune she was having to dance to and asked her to leave - and I I did wonder why they danced this tune for so long .

My dd1's bahavour was vile - I tell you I love her but her behavour was the most vile I had witnessed and i make no bones of it if her sm had asked for parental responsability I would have told her to do one of a long plank and think of her as an interfering silly cow.
dd1 went to live with soemone for a month and then she came back to live with me - she is now so much nicer and nearly grown up - but teens are terrible

I can understand the feelings of the boys' mother, but the focus of all thoughts and decisions should be the feelings of the boy, and what is best for him.
Applying for a Residence Order seems to be in his best interests so that he has the security of knowing where he formally belongs, and cannot be emotionally undermined
by any comments his mother may make about 'forcing' him to go back.
If application is made for a R.O., I think CAFCASS would be involved even if the Order was not contested, so the boy would need to be spoken to by CAFCASS in any event.
Perhaps that would be the time to give further consideration to the issue of PR, following discussion with CAFCASS?

Come off it, gemmummy and pethy! Everyone was v sympathetic at first. I really was trying to be nice and supportive as I'm sure were others. Ladydeedy seemed to have made up her mind already and people questioned whether it was the right decision is all.

ah but she has stated she is very new to the site too....in hindsight aibu probably wasn't the best place for this, if the OP was after advice there must be a better board than this one. It's clearly a very emotive subject, and one I claim to have no knowledge of at all, but I do sort of understand the OP's indignation, if that is the correct word?

If this is all just happening now it's probably all very raw, so no wonder she's resisting it. Possibly something better broached once it's all settled down a bit?

erm, i have been through the courts about parental repsonsibility actually.

My posts were honest.

I am sorry that they were not what the OP wanted to hear but i do feel that by persuing this course of action it will cause a lot of grief for all involved, lead to more ill feeling and a deterioration of the already volatile relationship.
and for something that really isn't needed seems futile and antogonsitic.

I was not being vile. I was giving my advice and opinion.

And yes, the op's comment about seeing how that all pans out seemed very smug and patronising.

and i respond to the post in question, i don't alter my tone dependant on which discussion board the post appears on.

I'm not getting drawn into a slanging match, just trying to see it from both sides. As I said, I can't claim to know anything about these situations, so am trying to see it from all sides.

i am a mum, a step mum and have been through the process.

I do see it from all sides.

oh, and this isn't in AIBU

I honestly think it is good that people have responded by putting a different point of view, though. It's so hard to see things from someone else's perspective when you're in the middle of something like this and whatever ladydeedy decides to do it might be helpful to have an inkling of what her stepson's mum might be feeling.

what gigantaur said - you dont really need it

just sign any school forms, its not a problem

your DSS will have to consent to any medical treatment himself anyway

it will just antagonise her. just because you think she's a terrible mother doesnt mean she doesnt love her son and deep down is very sad they cant live together

my apologies gig, I have only just realised that, I don't normally venture into these areas, must have clicked on by mistake. I'll get my coat then.....

just posting a thought from a stepmother, who has been in a similar position.

dh's ex always said that when the dc were with us, they were his reponsibility (fair point, tbh)

BUT, dh travels a lot. and so some of the time they were "his" responsibility, they were actually mine, iyswim.

and that meant sometimes talking to teachers, sometimes popping to the doctor's/dentist's/etc with them.

all fine, until ex realise dthat things were going a bit too smoothly, threw her toys out of the pram, and insisted that all these people had nothing to do with me, as I didn't have PR, whilst also refusing to go see school for a meeting as it was dh's time, or not wanting to take time off work for a doc's appt, as it was dh's time etc.

PR for me would have made our lives a hell of a lot easier, and, to be frank, my step-children's lives a lot easier too.

But dh's ex said "over my dead body", and so we carried on, with the children asking me to speak to school about something, school having to refuse to speak to me, us all jumping through hoops for a while, with dc getting increasingly upset, unti lex decided to front up and "save the day"

sometimes, as much as it hurts, it might just be the best thign to give a step parent PR. for the sake of the children.

Thank you Gemmummy, Grobag and Pithyslicker (and others of course).
The boy's mother will work herself up into a state regardless, I suspect.
She has been constantly unhappy. I guess this is just one more thing she's decided to be unhappy about.
I'm not being antagonist, just trying to be practical.

I think with your dss age getting PR is less of an issue, hopefully. I think with the state of things at the moment then it's perhaps best to let it go just get the residence order.

Can your dh email her in a very calm way and aplogise for upsetting her and that you were only thinking it was important for an emergency situation, did she have a better solution for just in case situations?

Only you will know if this will add fuel to the fire or help calm it down!

but what you aren't seeing is that in everyday practical terms you don't need the PR.

it is an argument you dont need to have.

Why cause more grief than you need to.
Whatever you think of the ex and however angrily she speaks about her son i am certain that she loves him deeply and only wants the best for him.

14 is a very difficult age for a mother and son and it is very very common for boys of that age to argue and go to live with their fathers.

Don't make any formal arrangments simple to score points. Spend your energy maintaining a reasonably amicable relationship with the ex, it will be the best for all concerned in the long run.

Thank you Silverfrog!
your examples are exactly what we face. And CarGirl, it's been explained to the mother (by her own mother actually with whom we are on good terms) to no avail.

We'll see the first court hearing outcome is, based on the information they have, from all our parties, from cafcass etc.

In that case I would just change it to residency, she may feel she's won, if you haven't yet spoken to cafcass I would tell them that you are happy to not have PR if you don't need it to authorise stuff in an emergency situation etc Your flexibility will be a positive thing with them and the courts.

Please read back what you have posted and think about whether it comes across as rude

It comes across to me as patronising

yu may be trying to be praticle but you come across as very rude.

This woman may well think you are ganging up on her with your family solicitor and you going for PR

I woudl work myself up into a state I love my dc and soemtimes getting in a state is what happens

you are coming over as callous

um, don't you automatically get PR with the granting of a residence order?!

if you can maintain an amicable relationship with the mother she can just agree with the school to allow you full guardianship rights.

My mother doesn't have PR for my children but the school know that if i am anavailable then she is more than capable of dealing with anything that comes up.

Of course if you are adament you wish to persue it you have every right. i just feel that you would be better off spending your energies elsewhere.

Cargirl - good advice. If it actually doesnt make much difference in practical day to day terms I frankly dont care about the PR!
Only concerned about stepson and what is best for him.
IvyKaty44, you are of course entitled to your opinion but I am taking on board your input. thank you

the problem, i think, gigantaur, is that if the ex decides to be awkward (amicable relationship[ or not) then she can just state to the school that they are not to speak to OP.

that is exactly what happened in our situation.

and school were obliged to take note of her wishes, and no amount of letters form dh (then dp) could change anyhting. if one parent stipulates that a partner cannot speak to/have input into the school then that is what school go by.

so your example only works if the ex is on board too, and is open to being abused/withdrawn at any point if ex gets upset over anything