Feel sick and have no idea what to do

[badmammy]

This is crap. So crap. I don't know what to do, and desperately need some advice.

I am a regular on MN, but have namechanged for this, as it is "somewhat sensitive". Bloody understatement. I have 3 children - a 14 year old boy who has special needs - Asperger Syndrome, ADHD and Tourettes, to name a few. I also have an 8 year old girl and a 6 year old boy.

I'm going to start with the background. About 3 years ago my daughter (5 at the time) came to me and told me that her big brother had made her take her pants down and he had put his willy "in her bottom". Eldest always denied anything had happened. We spoke to our contact at CAMHS, who contacted Social Services who basically said "just keep them apart when you are not in the room". And that was pretty much that. And we have kept them apart ever since - or at least made sure they are never alone together in privacy.

Anyway - driving to school with my two youngest today and my 6 year old said "My brother makes me suck his willy". He said it has happened more than once, and that he also tries to make him use his hand on his willy. So... keep calm. We had a discussion about how eldest was naughty to ask him to do something like that, and that if anyone did again then to say No and tell me or a teacher. And then I dropped him off at school, and went to phone CAMHS for advice.

They haven't phoned back (I have phoned again, during the day). And I don't know what to do. I am so upset - I am upset for my youngest children, having had something like this happen to them - I am upset for my eldest too, because he is so odd and he is going to end up in prison or something and probably without a clue what he did to get there. And somehow I have to find something I can do to make it better. And I can't think what to do.

Hi - your not a bad mummy. Unfortunately no org ell contact u bcs they can't deal with the 'before something serious happens' they are only trained to mop up the after. If you see a psychiatrist- he will have an insurance record. Feel equally sorry for your oldest- he is stuck in a situation he hates and can't get out of. Tell your husband- both of you have to sit with him and explain what happens to him if he continues. Tell him the horrible things Thant happen to him in jail- be very blunt. However- he must aslo feel that he is in a safe place for him to admit it. Be gentle- as hard as this is- your objective is helping him.!Are you catholic? Perhaps you could get him to confession. I agree with u- I wouldn't be telling the school. This is actually a very common problem with teenage boys. Revolting - but common. They usually grow out of it. Make sure the cause isn't porn. You also have to keep talking to your little ones- tell them what happened was wrong- and that eldest made a horrible mistake because he isn't well an tell them that he is very sorry. He should apologise to them. The bottom line is that he needs to be shocked into realising what he has done- but reassured that he is in a safe place where people can help him- but that if he does this again (and your husband needs to say this) that your first priority is your little children- not him. I know how you feel.

OP I think young minds might be an option- their website looks great

when I mentioned police I was mainly thinking of your concern that younger ones may not be telling total picture/truth- that was all, they could help untangle that

I think you are doing everything you can. I also 100% get you cant dscuss this in RL, so getting throughts/feedback on here is only place you have right now, and if I were in your situaton I would do no different, really

Of course you dont want to throw your elder child to the dogs, and of course you want to protect younger ones. and I see that you are opening yourself to the powers that be, and they are suprisingly slow to react

keep posting, and do try that helpline

and remember that if they do elect to take any measures its NOT your fault- its the law and its a bigger beast than we are

keep posting

thats good advice dontuhav

and thnaks for sharing its a common problem, I remeber dong something icky and odd when I was 11 too with my classmates

maybe elder does need to be shocked, "we love you so much, but what you did could get you sent to a bad place. do you understand this"

Well done op, it sounds like you handled it really well. Of course you were right not to start a prosecution, I can't see how that could possibly help any of your children.

I hope SS follow through now with appropriate intervention. Can I recommend this place, the Portman Clinic, it's an NHS clinic (part of the prestigious Tavistock clinic) dealing with sexual compulsions/disturbing sexual behaviour and I know they treat adolescents. If you live in London you can self refer, otherwise you need to be referred by a GP or social services. Maybe give them a ring, if you're too far away they may be able to suggest a more local resource?

www.tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/sexualcompulsions

Hello,

We've spoken to the OP who is happy for us to move this thread to our Special Needs boards. We think it's a better fit for this thread.
Thanks
Sandy

hi again OP, with regard to your eldest i think you need someone who deals with these type of issues but has experience in the field of his special needs.

Who diagnosed him? would it be worth getting in touch with them - perhaps they could signpost you in the right direction because i think the way that this is now handled is going to be so so important in stopping your eldest from ending up in real trouble. (when i say that i am not down playing the enormity of what has happened so far btw, but i mean things have escalated so whatever was done the first time he was "experimenting" hasnt worked, and the worse things get the more likely it is that he will end up before a court...i know you know this and im sorry) The fact that he wont even talk or acknowledge his actions is worrying and you need someone who can unpick it with him....(my own boy has issues with spending and getting into bother with pay day loans etc and despite really needing help will not even discuss it with me...i think mum is the last person they often want to talk to in adolescence)

I also think you are probably right about the prosecution side - im a bobby and im struggling to see what anyone would gain from it right now....

i really feel for you, your DH and your children. I hope the youngest boy is also going to get access to support/counselling. You must feel ripped into little pieces. I never, ever do hugs but right now im going to break that rule...and offer you a virtual squeeze.
x

Can I thank you all for your support and advice. This is so difficult, and I feel so alone with it all (husband notwithstanding) and it really helps to be able to unload it all here.

It all feels so unreal. I have had to cancel my presentation today as SS want to talk to my younger children, so I have to go and collect them from school early. And then I have to go to eldest's school to discuss GCSEs. It is such a weird juxtaposition, and I don't feel in the right place to do ANYTHING useful right now.

However, I have made a note of the website mentioned above, and the clinic (although we are a LONG way from London) and when I have a bit more of an idea what is happening I will take those ideas out and look at them.

Apparently the strategy meeting is tomorrow. And after that they will get in touch and tell us what they are planning. Whether I will have to be on guard duty forever. They can't really think that will be practical, can they? That I keep him under close supervision for the rest of his childhood? I just have no idea what they might suggest. It worries me.

Oh, and CAMHS finally called and have made an appointment to see eldest "for a chat" next week.

Thank you Mrs Micawber.

I did talk to youngest and say that what eldest did was naughty, and that if anyone ever tried to do something like that again to tell me or his teacher. But maybe I will have the conversation again and be more explicit.

OP _ Although I have nothing practically to help or advice, I wanted to offer my admiration for the way you are handling all of this. You must be screaming inside, yet practically are doing the right thing - I admire you.

I have SN teenagers myself, and although have not faced your exact situation (thankfully) I have been in the position of being torn in two by their behaviour affecting the younger ones. There is a part of me that always thinks if I don't support the elder young person, no-one else ever will, certainly no-one else will ever be able to properly be able to understand how their SN affects them.

If any little positive can come out of this situation, at least your eldest child at 14, should be able to access a variety of support and help that he needs. I have found once they are 18, there are very few services available, and even then they are still expected to conform to societies rules and punishments.

So I truly hope your little ones are okay and will be able to get whatever help and support they need, ditto the older one. However, maybe at some time you will need some help to come to terms with your conflicting emotions and the enormous strain you must be under. I wish you all well.

Thanks porcamiseria - I've been thru this some years back and the good news is I guess that there is little chance of reoffence once they're confronted. The sad thing is that this behaviour is silently increasing bcs of exposure to porn. I've found it's really important that they feel loved themselves with physical affection from mum and dad- hugs, shoulder rubs etc and ongoing weekly chats about how his 'battle ' is going. Because it is his own personal demons he's battling. Unfortunately having children over for plays should be postponed for some months and absolutely no sleepovers. I found treating this like an illness helped us as parents and the children manage this and it will get better. Its best that you don't lose his trust by telling others or he may just not bother helping himself if he feels persecuted. Feelings have no words at the moment i know- be united with hubby and you can get through this.

It is stupid. I just don't know how to act with the children.

Actually youngest is easy enough. Just lots of hugs and being there for him. He has taken to sleeping in my bed now that my husband has had to go on guard duty overnight and sleep in the eldest's room. And that is fine if it makes him feel more secure.

But eldest. He has finally admitted to me that it did happen, and that he wants to say sorry but youngest won't talk to him. And I don't know how to explain to him that saying sorry just isn't enough. And I don't know how to act - I have made it clear to him that I think what he did was dreadful and that I am very angry with him, but that I also love him and want to help him so that he can be happy. So he is getting lots of hugs and understanding too. And my husband thinks that actually what he should be getting is unrelenting punishment. And I can understand that point of view, but I don't think it will help.

i think you need to start beating some doors down - starting with social services. They seem to be not quite treating this with the urgency it deserves. I would also get in touch with whichever psychologist diagnosed him - if you cannot do that go to the GP and explain what has happened - they may be able to help you. i would also be googling like billio to find someone - a psychologist with experience in these issues involving special needs and sexuality etc and look into getting a referral to someone in the right field.
You have a fine line to tread because your youngest is going to need such support too, what are social services doing? do they need a kick up the arse? It must be very difficult to support your eldest right now.

You are still in shock i think. It must be agonising for you as a family and you are handling it so well.
x

No - i think SS are on it... the wheels are grinding. We reported on Wednesday- - they came out with police on the same day. We saw them again yesterday when they spoke to the younger children. They are holding a strategy meeting today, and have told me there will be representatives of a support group there who offer services to teens with this sort of behaviour and with AS type problems. So I think it looks like they are going to put the right stuff in place.

They are going to get counselling for youngest too.

perhaps you could help your eldest write a letter to your youngest?

you're right that saying sorry won't magically make it better, but it is something that he could do and it could potentially give you another opening for a talk on exactly why what he has done is so wrong.

i think if you go down the route of "that won't make it better, nmothing will make it better", while true, it does leave the eldest in a place where he has done a bad thing and he can do nothing about it and he's potentially going to end up thinking that if he can't do anything to help make it right then he may as well just forget about it. or where he feels like whatever he does to make amends it will never be enough
does that make sense? I think it's important that he knows that things can change?

the other thing i was thinking about is whether he knows simple things like that it's ok to pleasure himself, but not to involve other people if they do not want to be involved, and definitely not to involve children and family?
this seems obvious to us, but he may simply not know this... i am guessing it's not the kind of thing covered in sex ed at school because the vast, vast majority of children DO know that it would be unacceptable but your son may need it spelling out?

and agree with everything vicarinatutu has said about realling kicking and pushing for a referral to whoever the most appropriate person is. they simply cannot expect you all to live like this indefinitely

cross posted with you BM.. that all sounds pretty positive!

it does sound positive, im glad they are moving on this. hang on in there. x

Thisisyesterday makes a valid point about letting your eledest son know that masturbation by himself is fine and nothing to be ashamed of and allowed, as long as in privacy and no one else is around?

I'm glad things are moving forward for you, and it sounds like social services are on the ball.

badmummy

I am sorry your DH has taken it this way. you know what, I reckon alot of people would react this way too. I am not defending your DH at al, but his reaction is also a valid one too as what eldest did was a crime.

just keep on pushing and trucking

glad we found you, and I am glad you have a non-RL ooulet, as I am sure you need it

SS have just phoned about their meeting.

Apparently 3 things are going to happen. Eldest is going to be assessed by a group called "Tithe" or "Tydd" or something like that. Who apparently specialise in this field. Until that happens he will have to remain under constant supervision at home and at school. In order to let me drop him at school my smaller children's school have offered to take them to school on the school bus (it is a 45 minute drive to their school).

They are also offering counselling to the younger children.

That is it, really. I think I was expecting more.... Although she did say they haven't actually done a formal assessment yet, but that she is on holiday for the next 2 weeks so it won't be done til she gets back. Maybe this is "emergency help" and they might offer "slightly less urgent" help when that is done?

and they have no-one else who can do this assessment while she is away????? that's shocking!

i feared as much tbh, i really do think you will have to put a rocket up their arse if you want anything more/faster or some definitive answers.

i would be asking who this group are exactly and what their specialism is - do your homework.

i think you really do need to speak to a psychologist much sooner. Who diagnosed your eldest?

A specialist paediatrician where we used to live - since retired. So no help there.

I was hoping to be able to google the name of the group and find out about them, but I can't find anything using the name. Doesn't help that because I live in Wales it might be a Welsh word for something, and I don't know what it is....

I need to find out more details on Monday. She said if we need anything over the next 2 weeks her manager is holding our case until she gets back.

Ah - I have just found out it is part of Barnardos - called Taith