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Feel sick and have no idea what to do

248 replies

badmammy · 06/03/2012 18:07

This is crap. So crap. I don't know what to do, and desperately need some advice.

I am a regular on MN, but have namechanged for this, as it is "somewhat sensitive". Bloody understatement. I have 3 children - a 14 year old boy who has special needs - Asperger Syndrome, ADHD and Tourettes, to name a few. I also have an 8 year old girl and a 6 year old boy.

I'm going to start with the background. About 3 years ago my daughter (5 at the time) came to me and told me that her big brother had made her take her pants down and he had put his willy "in her bottom". Eldest always denied anything had happened. We spoke to our contact at CAMHS, who contacted Social Services who basically said "just keep them apart when you are not in the room". And that was pretty much that. And we have kept them apart ever since - or at least made sure they are never alone together in privacy.

Anyway - driving to school with my two youngest today and my 6 year old said "My brother makes me suck his willy". He said it has happened more than once, and that he also tries to make him use his hand on his willy. So... keep calm. We had a discussion about how eldest was naughty to ask him to do something like that, and that if anyone did again then to say No and tell me or a teacher. And then I dropped him off at school, and went to phone CAMHS for advice.

They haven't phoned back (I have phoned again, during the day). And I don't know what to do. I am so upset - I am upset for my youngest children, having had something like this happen to them - I am upset for my eldest too, because he is so odd and he is going to end up in prison or something and probably without a clue what he did to get there. And somehow I have to find something I can do to make it better. And I can't think what to do.

OP posts:
boredandrestless · 06/03/2012 19:18

I missed that he told you this on way to school and you dropped him off for the day!

Poor little thing. Sad

And yes, all schools involved need to know as all 3 of your children are a risk/at risk. Most schools have a child protection person.

AnyFucker · 06/03/2012 19:19

advise you that you don't hide this from your husband

badmammy · 06/03/2012 19:22

Coconutty - what was I supposed to do with him? He would have thought he was being punished if I suddenly announced I wasn't letting him go to school.

Yes, I know. Anyone else and I would have called the police immediately. I know that. I have had this conversation in my head so many times. But it isn't anyone else - it is my slightly odd and vulnerable son. Who also needs me, as he has no-one else who is ever on his side.

How am I supposed to cut my heart in two to deal with this?

Off to tuck the children into bed. Will pop back later.

OP posts:
abbierhodes · 06/03/2012 19:26

I am a teacher. You do know that if your son had made that disclosure at school he probably wouldn't be returned to you that afternoon? SS would step in and remove him from the situation while it was being investigated.

I was also Hmm that you just dropped him off at school. You are seriously under-reacting here! Your children are being abused. I feel for your situation but this has to be your priority.

LunarRose · 06/03/2012 19:28

You are not a bad mummy, just an mummy in an impossible situation.

FWIW i think you have absolutely done the right thing.

Too late to do it today, but if you're a member of the NAS have you thought of contacting their helpline? Might come to nothing, but you never know they might be able to give another perspective.

Lougle · 06/03/2012 19:32

badmammy, I can understand why you are finding it so hard to decide what to do. It feels like you are sacrificing your eldest DS (who is so much more vulnerable because of his SN) for the sake of your younger children.

But, IMO, if you contact someone now, you are protecting all of your children. CAMHS are there to deal with your DS's mental wellbeing. But, we know that sexual activity between people in a position of (relative) power and people in a position of (relative) weakness is not always about 'nice feelings' or being 'enamoured'. It is quite possible that your DS either:

a) Has had some hormonal changes which he has explored inappropriately
or
b) Found these things 'fun'
or
c) Knows they are wrong, but (as you say) doesn't comprehend the reason they are wrong, and what it all means
or
d) Sadly, could just be developing a 'taste' for sexual activity with children (paedophilia).

That will be important for CAMHS to try and unpick.

However, and I speak as a mother of a child with complex SN, you can't protect him from 'himself'. Regardless of the reason, your children have been assaulted. It doesn't matter if that has happened because your DS 'innocently' explored feelings in an appropriate manner, or if he is developing a like for young children. The fact is, they have had to do things that they wouldn't have chosen to do if they hadn't been persuaded by your eldest DS.

Social Services are there both for you, your DS and your younger children. They can help you to do the hardest thing. I know they have a bad reputation, at times, but they really are there to safeguard your whole family.

I know it is nothing compared to your situation, but my (now) 6 year old has SN. She goes to Special school. She gets quite frustrated, and as a result, was hitting and kicking her sisters (then 2 and 3). It got to the point that I couldn't keep them all safe at the same time.

DD1 wasn't safe to be left alone at all, and couldn't be put in her bedroom. We only had a lounge and kitchen downstairs. The younger 2 girls were too young to leave alone upstairs, so had to be in the lounge.

DD1 would ping-pong from one to the other, hitting, kicking, whatever. She could see that I couldn't keep them all safe. If I was with her, the others wanted to see me, and as soon as they came close, she would swipe them. If I was with them, she would kick the one I couldn't reach. It was impossible.

Social Services assessed (they had been out when she was 3.5 and refused help). They could see that DD1 was quite violent towards me (at the climax of the SW visit, DD1 was stood on my lap hitting me - as soon as I held one hand, she swiped with the other - and then she declared "THIS IS FUN). She was giddy and completely unreachable.

Long story short, DD1 goes to after school club twice per week, I have social services funded agency care 2 nights per week (an extra pair of hands) and Homestart on the remaining day (the day I actually get a break).

DD1s behaviour is unrecognisable now. She very rarely hits out or kicks. It's because her needs are being met. She wasn't being malicious - she was reacting to her environment, and her hitting and kicking was saying "I can't cope with this".

Coconutty · 06/03/2012 19:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Amaretti · 06/03/2012 19:34

I don't see why he shouldn't have gone to school. You can't change what's done, only counsel as required.

But - Your elder son cannot be trusted. Imagine how you would feel if it were another man that had done this to your children. Then I think you might get another perspective on your reactions.

Coconutty · 06/03/2012 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LilacWaltz · 06/03/2012 19:43

Is there somewhere he could go to? Am thinking perhaps he will need to be out of the home for a while? Would ss do this? Because it's hardly possible to be with your younger ones all the time.

mumofjust1 · 06/03/2012 19:46

It never occurred to you to keep them apart, even though you were told about this by your dd 3 years ago?

I think you have been, at best, negligent.

SauvignonBlanche · 06/03/2012 19:48

Won't your husband be more upset at being kept in the dark?

mrsmplus3 · 06/03/2012 19:49

you absolutely dont want your youngest taken off you but on the other hand you need professional advise and help as your children have been sexuallly abused in the home. that will effect them forever. god.... i dont know.
you need to get help.
good luck.

ps you shouldnt ever ever again leave your children alone with their big brother. you have a duty to protect your little ones.

Strawbezza · 06/03/2012 19:50

OP what an awful situation for you all. All you can do at this moment is keep your eldest son away from the younger children at all costs. Does eldest son have contact with any other children?

But you must tell your husband.

The authorities might well want eldest son to move out for a while, maybe you can start thinking where he could go? Is there another family member (childless) who could host him for a while?

LilacWaltz · 06/03/2012 19:51

strawbezza that's what I was thinking too.

OneLieIn · 06/03/2012 19:53

Op, there's a lot of good advice on here that I can only echo.

You must tell your dh. You absolutely must. This is not your problem to burden alone.

You must also protect your 2 dcs. If you leave things as they are, things will not change. They have been sexually abused and it will haunt them. They will need help. Your job is to protect them.

You must also protect your eldest. You mug protect him from himself and also protect others from him. He may be the most lovely boy in the world to you, but what he is doing is wrong and you have to take control of the situation. Call the NSPCC and SS emergency line tonight. Don't delay.
It is only by you taking action that you have a chance to turn things around for him, to get him on the straight and narrow.

I am going to ask you a question that you may not like. How do you know he hasn't behaved in an unacceptable way including sexually with other children? I think you probably don't know for sure.

Big hug to you

Lougle · 06/03/2012 19:53

"It never occurred to you to keep them apart, even though you were told about this by your dd 3 years ago?

I think you have been, at best, negligent."

A bit harsh, mumofjust1.

It doesn't necessarily follow that an incident between the eldest DS and the DD will precipitate an incident between the eldest DS and the younger DS 3 years later.

badmummy made it perfectly clear that she has kept her DS and DD apart for 3 years. That's not an easy thing to do.

badmammy · 06/03/2012 19:55

Right - I have just phoned the NSPCC about it. They have said to phone CAMHS again in the morning, and to get in touch with SS in the morning as well.

But they also said that they would probably just say the same as they did 3 years ago - make sure they are not alone together. That any help they offer for children displaying this type of problem (the eldest) would probably not be appropriate bearing in mind his difficulties.

And yes, I did send them to school. I don't see why I shouldn't have? He wasn't upset. I don't see what keeping him off would have achieved, other than to make it all into a much bigger deal. It is already a big deal - it doesn't need to be made bigger than it already is.

Am I under-reacting? I wonder how you would react if this was you? ??I KNOW I would react completely differently if it was someone other than my son who was responsible, but it is not. So I am trying to be calm and rational and not turn it into an enormous crisis that none of us will recover from.

I have no-one who can help. We lives hundreds of miles from family or friends. I don't know how to have this conversation with my husband - though I know I am going to have to at some point. I don't want my children to be living with someone who does things like this to them. But at the same time, what on earth can I do about it?

OP posts:
OneLieIn · 06/03/2012 19:58

You have to tell your husband tonight. They are his joint responsibility.

Coconutty · 06/03/2012 19:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

badmammy · 06/03/2012 19:59

I dread - DREAD - being made to choose between my children. In any way. Because if I am honest I love all of them deeply, but I like my two youngest far more than my eldest. He is just so difficult. And yet he needs me so much more on a day to day basis.

I am being torn apart.

OP posts:
mumofjust1 · 06/03/2012 19:59

Lougle

She said herself that it's easy enough to keep them apart, but she didn't feel it was necessary

I genuinely dint understand why she wouldn't have erred on the side of caution.

If she had, her ds would not have been exposed to abuse

OneLieIn · 06/03/2012 19:59

And sorry, as for making this into a drama that none of you will recover from...you probably are already there. Your kids have been abused. Your child is an abuser, that's a pretty big drama that has and will cause major damage. Sending ds to school will make no difference to that.

badmammy · 06/03/2012 20:01

No - he is at a bog standard comp. I doubt there will have been any real access to other children - he is quite shy of children he doesn't know. I think my youngest is an obvious target as he is very malleable and easy going. Easy to cow.

OP posts:
LilacWaltz · 06/03/2012 20:02

If ss don't get involved then I despair!

You cannot realistically keep the dc apart....how would you monitor that? It's not fair to place that burden on just you op, you need to get your DH onside with this

What has your DH done to help with this since previous incident 3 years ago?

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