Good luck Claw!

[fightingtheLA]

Hi Claw
Have been following your sorry saga with school for a while now. Just wanted to say good luck with the meeting tomorrow and hope you get more from it than the usual clap-trap,fob-offs etc. etc. I find it difficult dealing with everything even with a very supportive school so am in awe of your tenacity. Knowledge is strength and posters such as yourself, Debs, Star,Attila etc..have really given me the confidence to fight for my ds!

They also stated that ds had told them he was happy in school.

I have just asked him the same question, are you happy in school, to which he replied yes.

I then asked are you happy in the class room, to which he replied no, i dont like it when i get told off. Does that happen a lot yes.

Are you happy at playtime, yes i like it at playtime when no one hits me.

Are you happy at PE time. No.

I will ask CAMHS to have a chat with him about school. They had faces like thunder when CAMHS told them termly meetings with school and even tried to argue that SENCO would not have time as she only works 2 days a week!

do you have a camcorder, or recording facility on your phone, claw?

might be useful to have evidence that your ds is not really understanding the question (which is how it comes acrosss) - maybe somehting you could follow through with SALT too (sorry, can't remember if you have an onside SALT or not)

we got caught in that trap with my step-daughter. her school was failing her badly, dh wanted her to move schools, and was more than happy to pay fees for private (due ot area, only alternative was private). his ex refused , despite insisting on private for my step son , and so we had EPs etc involved to make reports.

dsd told them she liked her school, because she liked PE (especially cricket) and she also liked drama (especially productions). school has no playing fields, and no mixed teams for sport (certainly no girls teams), she hated her drama teacher, and school never put on drama productions. EP translated all this into "best if dsd stays where she is"

this is why you need ot put these things in writng - you need it on record that you don't agree with what they are saying, and you need to start gatherign proof that what they are saying is bollocks.

video evidence is submissable at tribunal, when it gets to that stage.

Silver, ds is very literal and evidently so.

I told him to put the top on his hamsters cage (meaning the lid) he took off his top and placed it over the hamster cage!

I ask him did you hit your brother, no. Then i ask my older ds what did he do, he kicked me. Then i ask him did you kick your brother yes.

You have to be very specific with the questions or instructions. It actually says that in numerous reports and his difficulties with conversation well documented.

If i record it, the school will say it was rehearsed, no doubt.

Class teacher spoke at length about how well ds communicates and answers questions and puts his hand up to answer questions. She has been his class teacher since Jan 2010. His teacher in November commented that ds would not ask for help and wanted to be left alone.

I asked how many of these questions he answered related to feelings or emotions, this wasnt answered as head teacher butted in with how well ds communicates with her too, then class teacher had to leave after 10 minutes.

I have already raised all these concerns in writing to the school, backed up with professional evidence, so id be covering old ground.

ASD Outreach is contacting senior SALT to request specific provision. I will ask her to put this in writing and pestered PP for a change of school now she has seen for her own eyes.

honestly, build up a picture of him misunderstanding.

whip out your camera at every opportunity (ifnothing else, it gives oyu something to measure against yourself when he gets the right help and starts making good progress on these things)

they cannot say it is always set up. they might try to, but it is them who will look foolish if they try.

I had this with dd1's school saying she couldn't possibly be talking like we said she was (she was silient in school) - we took film of her everyhwere commenting on the fish at the aquarium, asking ot go to the toilet in a pub, etc. school tried ot say it was because she was in comfortable environments - we told them the pub was a one-off visit, aquarium was in France, etc etc.

it rapidly became obvious school was just trying to dismiss what we were saying - that dd1 was capable of talking outside the homeenvironment.

you need lots of examples, so you can get it shown around. it is much hrder for them to dismiss actual viusal evidence of what oyu are saying.

Silver, ok thanks, i will record him on my phone.

I have asked that next meeting focus on what his needs are and what help he gets and i want it listed.

His IEP is a total joke, its a school report, not an IEP it reads in brief:-

Independence, concentration and learnings

Ds is able to follow class routines and has also been given a now/next timetable to minimise any anxiety he may feel with regards to the transition from one activity to the next. This has had a positive effect on his behaviour.

He is settled in the classroom.

Mum reports x, y, z.

social and emotional

Ds has several friends and is happy at playtimes. He finds a supervisor at playtime to report any incidents. Ds still finds it difficult to explain incidents clearly.

mum reports x, y, z

Strageries

supported 4 times a week for literacy and numeracy in a group.

2 x 20 TA speech help

ds was given a home/school liason chart. mum requested that his cease.

3 x communication cards, but he doesnt need them as he now communicates to staff.

Targets

to continue to use visual timetable
to use 3 cards
get changed for PE in 10 minutes
produce blends pr, dr, tr

Thats it, surely any professional looking at his IEP can see its a crock of shit?

You need to bang on about evidenced-based practice and also say 'outcomes' a lot.

Targets should be MEASURABLE over time and these measurements should be unambiguous.

You can't say something has had a positive effect on behaviour unless you can show a before and after and have EVIDENCE that the difference was attributable to the intervention.

What mum reports has no place in an IEP, except at the end where mum signs it and perhaps adds a comment or two.

The only outcome from being given a home liaison chart is reciept of a home liason chart. The desired outcome has to be stated and the details of how this particular solution is supposed to make a difference documented.

And in what world is a target to use a visual timetable? That is not an outcome either.

I think there are professionals that would see it as a load of rubbish, but unfortunately others will not see it that way. This is because, in a well-meaning school an IEP could well look like that but the staff actually make up the shortfall in good intentions and hard work. Your school are not doing this, so it is all the more important for the IEP to be quite quite concrete.

Sorry to hear how meeting went. I suppose, that a positive is that outside agencies have now seen what you are up against with the school and SENCO.
I have to say, that I had a feeling you wouldnt get much joy from today-though would have loved to have been proved wrong!
Also, the keeping you waiting for 20mins-this is their pre-meeting I said may happen. This is obviously where Head and SENCO talked"tatics" and what line was going to be followed.
Really, now the time has come to complain to the Director of Education in your area,(a)about lack of provision for ds and(b)the Head herself and her disgraceful unprofessional attitude towards you and CAMHS and PP particularly at this meeting.
Just because the meeting was held in the school and chaired by her, does not mean she dictates who is allowed to express an opinion.
I am sooo frustrated on your behalf claw. But, I do think if you complain higher and say who else witnessed the Head in action, you may get somewhere as Education Chiefs do not like to be seen in a bad light.
When you get the minutes, put on your ammendments and cc them to everyone-inc. Director of education. Say, the school display an incredible lack of ignorance of ASD-thinking anxiety is only shown by screaming and aggression. If they did training, they would know anxiety can also be displayed by self-injury-scratching, biting, hair-pulling, picking.
Really consider hard whether to keep your ds attending-what was the outcome re PE?
But, whatever, complain!
You have rattled the Heads cage and she doesnt like it! By the way, never heard of an IEP having to be short!! And, put in writing again, you would like in writing, (a)what the school consider ds Needs to be and(b)what support/provision they are Providing to Meet those needs. And, breathe!

claw - I'd ask for the IEP beforethe meeting, ifI were oyu. Youmightnot get it, but they cannot then claim unprepared ofr the meeting either.

letme know if you want a copy of dd1's IEP as example of good practice to beat them around the head with -would knock them out (literally!)

Claw, sorry to hear the HT was such an arse. I hope the next meeting is better. When you send your minutes to all concerned, I would point out 'A further meeting has been booked on X June to be attended by X, Y and Z.' (ensur HT name not listed there.)

If you get an EP assessment, you know you can ask them to assess at the house as well as school? You could arrange for her to attend on a PE day and see what state DS is in afterwards...

Thanks Star have written down your comments and they will be very useful to put into a letter. Seriously when i start talking they really do not understand what im saying. When PP and CAMHS were talking they really did not understand what they were saying either. They just kept repeating the same thing in different ways and refusing to listen to anything that was said. It was like they are special needs neanderthals!

For example the eyelash pulling out that resulted in ds being sent home from school the school are saying he was not sent home from school for pulling out his eyelashes. They thought he had 'conjunctivitis' which might have been caused by the eyelash pulling.

When i point out that she had already stated earlier when I asked about pulling out eyelashes that this does not happen in school, it must be a home thing, so why would she think that!

She raises her eyes, humps and puffs and says im only stating what Mrs x told me are you going to hold onto my every word!

I then say i took ds to my GP and i provided the school with a copy of letter, stating the injuries to his eye were caused by him pulling out his eyelashes.

She then states again, he doesnt do it in school!

ARGH and ARGH again.

Bigpants, Head didnt even chair the meeting! SEN Governor was supposed to attend and chair but didnt show up, hence us waiting 20 minutes.

I had already written to him stating that if i did not get an outcome at this meeting, i would be making a complaint to all the people you mentioned, hence the no show!

I asked that PP chair the meeting and Head just spoke over the top of her. PP was not confrontational at all, but Head kept challenging everything she tried to say.

SENCO wasnt much better, at one point she asked me a question and when i started to answer, she told me 'im speaking'.

SENCO and Head were talking across the room to each other, while others were speaking.

It was dreadful, as i said i put my notebook and pen away after 10 minutes and just sat.

Head tried to use my complaint (SEN Governor emailed her), as a reason not to bother writing a list of ds's needs and what help was in place. So i agreed to hold off until the 30th.

Silver, what i listed above is ds's IEP! Its not an IEP, its a document to make them look good and mum is a liar!

Its 7 pages long, but filled up with shit, for example mum says that ds has trouble sleeping of a night, although we dont see any effects of this in school.

Ds has been observed by a number of outside agencies namely OT service, X hospital OT and ASD Outreach all of whom have commented positively on ds's awareness of the classroom routines and his ability to function within the school setting, even during unstructured sessions such as rehearsing for a class assembly in the hall.

Ds was hospitalised in December 2009 with impetigo on his face and hands which had become sceptic due to him scratching the areas. Mum is concerned that this is a form of self injurious behaviour, although this has not been confirmed by specialists.

Mum has applied for Statutory Assessment and this was refused. School informed LA, SA was not necessary at this time.

Multi professional meeting held at school and who attended and 6 lines on who attended

You have to see it to believe it!

Thederkin, thanks for your support. Yes someone already told me EP can assess at home too.

ASD Outreach have been surprisingly supportive after being into school twice too! They havent been 'tainted' She has offered to go into school and observe ds during PE, once he is ready to start joining in again.

The problem with ds is he is very expressionless and emotionless really, thats is what makes him so passive, he just doesnt respond to anything. SALT has identified "ds cannot understand and use appropriate facial expression" his target is "to be able to use appropriate facial expressions in small group setting". However, he becomes even more quiet and passive when anxious, he fidgets, he rocks, he picks. School are looking for him to show signs of distress, but dont recognise the signs unless its screaming or shouting or aggression.

God, ive said a lot, apologises everyone for going on

Grr this is making me so mad, ds is such a sweet heart, if you told him to jump of a bridge he would. He so desperately wants to please adults, not just in school but home too even to his own peril, rather than get told off.

How do you get this across to people?

Im going to bed now, im thinking out loud!

Claw, sorry the meeting was so unproductive. Can't believe how awful the HT is! She sounds like one I have encountered who insists she knows best and any parent that disagrees with her is treated appallingly! Glad that some of the professionals have also seen how bad she is. Is there really no other school that can have your ds to get him out of there? I know from experience that that sort of attitude just ends up harming your child even more.

Morning fighting, you were up bright and early!

Im sure your right any school would be better than this one. The problem round here seems to be only the really 'rough' schools have places, because no one else wants them. If i take him out of this school, then end up taking him out of the next one too, it will look like the problem is with me as school say "im just happy with anything they do".

I will phone PP today, i havent spoken to her since the meeting, she had another appointment to get to yesterday. Will also phone the other school again.

I said to dp last night "what am i going to do", he replied "same as you always do, carry on"

Would just like to thank everyone for listening and helping me. I seem to do nothing but moan lately!

You're not moaning but stating the facts. You're only doing what all of us are - trying to get the best education we can for our dc's. You unfortunately have had an awful school to contend with. As your DP says you have to just keep carrying on. At least LA have agreed to assess which is a tough battle to win in itself. I'm sure schools and LA's just like to make things as awkward as possible in the hope that we'll give up and go away. Perhaps some of the 'experts' on this board should write a book on how to overcome all the difficulties you encounter with a SN child! Sure some people would think it a work of fiction though as some things are just too unbelievable. Anyway chin up and keep fighting. x

Claw, how are you getting on with your place on the list at the new school? It might be worth chasing that??

It might be worth talking to some of the other schools even if they seem a bit undesirable. I was talking to a journalist for a piece on the Academies Bill and she made the point that she was Governor of a school which was low down on the 'league table' and seen as 'undesirable' but that kids with SEN came from miles around because of the understanding and pastoral care on offer.

Not saying the two things go hand in hand necessarily, but those schools not so focused on their place in the league table, may prioritise different things e.g. children's emotional well-being! Just a thought.

The Primary Ed board on mumsnet has lots of teachers on who can give good suggestions on things like that too - it can make you realise they're not all the same out there!!

I think your Head's arse is on fire and she is showing her true colours as a result. I don't think there is much anyone can do if she decides to come to a meeting in her own school as it is a matter for her who her staff see and whether she decides it is something she needs to be involved in. But, if she comes, she'll just make a fool out of herself - again!!

She will go home singing - 'I fought the Claw and the Claw won'!!

Ha ha Debs! You've now got me thinking of appropriate songs for Claw.

How about SENd in the clowns?

Claw - have a hug - I think you deserve one. I agree with what Debs40 has said. Before DS was dx we would have fought hard to get him into a 'good' school with positive ofsted etc. However, I visited almost every school in the area when looking for the right setting and found that the 'good' schools were reluctant to talk to us. They tried everything in the power to dissuade us 'we're oversubscribed etc etc' and when we went to see some of them, the attitudes of the heads told us everything we needed to decide not to send DS as he wouldn't be welcome.

Without a doubt, the schools we found to be most welcoming and understanding were in the 'rougher' areas. The staff were lovely, the SENCOs were very can-do and we felt that DS would learn more in an environement where he felt welcome and wanted. TBH, league tables and all tha stuff are a pile of poo anyway. I can happily say this, having withdrawn DS from an 'outstanding' nursery according to ofsted, and putting him in one that scored 'ok' where he is thriving.

I didn't even read the oftsed tables for schools. Go with your gut intstinct - if the kids are happy and the staff onside and welcoming that is half the battle.

Also, do you have any units for kids with ASD nearby? They are worth a look, too, as the kids get transport if they are further away, but unless you know they are out there, they are pretty hard to find.

Keep fighting, claw, we're all on your side - maybe we should come to your next meeting, and bundle the head out the room so you can have a sensible convo with the others. We could take her off for some lessons in understanding kids with SEN

Fighting thats a brilliant idea, an mn guide to special needs and who to beat the system

Debs, you must have read my mind i have been phoning around school with ASD provisions attached, their list are extremely long. But they have recommended schools without attachment who have well known to them for having good knowledge and one school in particular is in the process of getting ASD provision.

Guess what, they had a space for ds, i have an appointment with the head tommorrow at 1.30

and DLA payment has just been made into my account, i havent had any letter from them, just the backdated money.

My luck has started to change.

Yay Claw - thing are definitely looking up! I'd buy a Lotto for tonight if I were you.

fantastic, Claw! If you do the win the Lotto tonight, please make checks payable to 'thederkinsdame'

Ha! if i won i the lottery i would be more than happy to share with you guys. It would have cost me a fortune by now in advice and counseling!

Ive just googled ofstead report for school to give me a bit of info.

"C-L-A-W....the Claw"

Debs40 jumps up shaking lou's pom-poms!!

You go girl!

As for songs for the head, what about 'Mercy' by Duffy!