A request for opinions and advice regarding Amber's departure from an outsider, but concerned friend.

[Catitainahatita]

Hi.

I am one of Amber's friends from outside the SN board. We have been distressed and upset by her departure and are unsure of how to respond to it.

We know that Amber was trying to seek a solution with MNHQ for some of the problems that she has faced on the boards recently. We would like to continue this, but are unsure of how to proceed.

To be clear: We are aware that there are many, many issues here that we do not understand or know about. It is not our intention to try to do anything that would be detrimental to other users of the SN board.

For these reasons, we seek your opinions and advice. We do not wish to be presumptious or insensitive or disrespectful in anyway. We would just like to help our friend.

One final personal comment. I realise that my own participation in a recent thread here was rude and beligerant. I apologised there and do so again here. I hope this lapse of personal control can be forgotten if not forgiven.

My only motivation here is concern for Amber; although, I repeat, this does not mean that I am looking to help her at the cost of anyone else.

I really hope there is a solution that is amenable to all. Could you all give us some help on how this might be done?

Thank you very much.

But she doesn't want to discuss her problems as such, she just wants to be able to give the insight that she has to help others.

Which is why a questions section would work well - if we had a board where we can go and say "I need help with DD's teachers not being more understanding at school" she would know she was fairly safe in that section.

Normal SN would be the day to day life stuff that gets posted, and the debates, and the poetry which she could then steer clear of.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with an 'Ask Amber' section are they? But from feedback this morning I thought that wasn't what was wanted.

I see no problem with as Ask Amber section at all. I do see a problem with people having to decide what might be upsetting or having posts moved because they're suddenly deemed too upsetting (imagine how awful someone is going to feel if they find out their difficult feelings and issues are suddenly unacceptable at another level). Or someone will post something and I'll want to post 'Autism Every Day' to make them feel better, or "welcome to Beirut or Schmolland' but I can't because that might result in the post being moved - and so make them feel worse.

I think a useful way to think about this is to remove it from Amber and think about its application in other areas. I gave the example of me in the past finding posts about children speaking non-stop very upsetting. I presume there are others out there at that stage who may find the same (some may not, but from talking to people I'm guessing it is something that will come up occasionally and that someone somewhere isn't going to want to read it). Do we ask everyone who might want to post about their child speaking non-stop to only post in a separate area, or not post at all? I don't think we can.

I think we have to recognise that this is a diverse board, and that bits that someone's problem is going to be someone else's wish list. As Riven said it simply cannot be ideal for everyone all the time. Dipping in and out is the only answer.

(flamesparrow...SO GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU!!!!)

I immensely respect Amber and feel MN needs her. For that reason alone I'd be happy to go along with the warning.

But I do agree with mrsturnip. I just don't think it's going to work. Simply because you can't know what is going to upset any one poster. While I think we all agreed that was a ghastly poem, almost every other subject is going to be less clearcut.

Some posters will get very upset by anyone stressing the dark side of autism and the more severe end of the spectrum. Others are going to be equally upset by suggestions that autism has to be viewed positively. I have seen both reaction on many threads in this section.

As for me, I often feel very upset by the strong emphasis on the forum that you have to accept the disability as part of who your child is because otherwise you are in some sense rejecting them. Otoh I am sure there are plenty of posters who would find it very upsetting to hear my take on the situation. Obviously, it's because we're not in the same place or dealing with the same problems.

So where do you end up? Do you attach a warning to every new thread? Or do you end up just trying to second-guess what might upset some posters and ignore the rest?

I think perhaps safe corners is a better idea. Otoh, if you divide the forum into topic sections, that means those of us whose children have rare conditions will end up talking to ourselves. I do a lot of that anyway

IF "AMBER'S CORNER was a place where i could share some of my (what i believe to be ) Asperger Moments ....not looking for solutions or quick fixes... just somewhere to 'download' my day...to untangle my mind... in a place that i was not judged...and where IF i offended anyone they could have a SMILEY WITH A FINGER* ON LIPS (Shhhhhh)...as a quick visual reminder to help people like us go careful....

then it would be wonderful.

And like amber, a real plus side for me would be that some of the stuff i post..may either provide insight to the 'ADULT' ?AS? MIND...and some laughs along the way. We don't ALWAYS feel like crying.

I have never found another site as easy to use as mumsnet...so through thick and thin i persevere to try and find ways to manage (usually by name changing)...

If that is how you feel MUM23ASD then could we not have a section like the disabled parents sections but as a say meeting corner/tea room for say you, Amber and all the others with (god really don't know how to say this without it coming across as wrong) But it seems lie your suggesting it anyway, so I'm going to be brave and say it. Your syndrome.

ps. hope I've not offended

cory - I agree about the topic sections. I often find I end up talking to the parents of kids with say a pretty severe CP anyway than ASD as I need to talk DFG's and motability. Or with parents of children with severe learning disabilities as the issues affecting them are more like mine, or we need to talk SLD schools.

I have no problem with a safe space for people with AS, which was why I suggested it (or the disabled parents section as rive has pointed out- see no reason why that couldn't become some sort of safe space). But I don't think you can divide the board into safe and potentially upsetting. Because any thread is potentially upsetting to someone.

On reflection I have to say I agree now.

I wonder then if the Tearoom thread that was on the sn board would have maybe worked.

Just an idea but how about giving it a trial run and see how it goes. MaryBs would Amber try again do you think after a little break? Surely she can see how much she is needed and wanted.

Ah yes I thought that when I saw your post on my thread riven - because I'd mentioned the Boardmaker Activity Pad - which I know wouldn't be accessible to your dd (I think ds1 would do even better with another VOCA I've come across but it's 7 grand so won't happen!)

But agree- it's not just about obviously difficult stuff- when you're having a very difficult time celebrations can be one of the hardest things to read. But no-one would expect people to never celebrate for fear of upsetting someone. Likewise my difficulties (ds1 running off like a bat out of hell with no concept of staying with us) is someone else's dream. It doesn't make my difficulties any less (remember the boy who was missing for 18 hours this weekend- that's my biggest and constant fear) - but I am aware that for some people on here there is nothing they would wish for more than their child being able to run.

I think all of us have to recognise we're in very different situations and are upset by and celebrate different things.

Right, so can we have an "Talk to someone with your child's SN". It could be fab. If it worked, other people with SN might wander over from the disabled parents section a bit more to chat.....even people who aren't parents. And yes that corner could have its own guidelines like those suggested on behalf of Amber, and mumsnet could exercise a somewhat heavier hand in moving threads that turned into debates back to the rest of the SN board. I don't think Amber wants all the focus to be on her. She just happens to write particularly well......

The idea of "reporting" or removing any SN thread because someone has decided that the content is "controversial" or "might upset Amber" is clearly not going to work for both practical reasons and reasons of principle. "Argumentative" and "Controversial" are completely subjective terms and it would all disintegrate (within 72 hours or less I estimate) into "No, you say I am being argumentative. I am not being argumentative. I see no reason why this should be moved to the argumentative threads section" etc, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Secondly, as a matter of principle, this board is not about any "core group" of privileged insiders. People come and go. It will die if newcomers cannot come along. No newcomer is going to feel confident that she "knows the rules" about what might upset an unknown poster called Amber. She'd probably leave and find another forum like the Sowell forum for people who spend their precious time reassuring each other their kids "don't have autism" and achieving much less than we do.

I want to continue to talk to people with AS/HFA about sensory issues, talk to the mothers of kids with LFA about common language problems, talk to parents who embrace the ASD label, talk to those who don't buy into our diagnostic processes, and talk to people who are confused by the SN jargon, all in the same place. It's unique.

there is already a "disabled parents" board on mn which is hardly ever used. Could that board be moved so it is in the same place as the sn board so that people like amber could go there and have a safe place to be?

The disabled parents section isn't somewhere where your average mn'er is likely to go is it? so chance of upset would be minimized surely?

I don't know what happened to start this off, but I do know that amber has been going through a lot in rl as well lately, so it's possible that she's already in a state of overload and that mn has just tipped the balance over the edge?

sounds good wannabe.

Well this whole thing has totally baffled me.

I'm not sure what is and is not allowed to be put on the SN board anymore, and have felt this way for a few weeks now, even before the poem was posted. There is a lot I would like to say about myself, how I feel about my DS2, but often don't in fear of upsetting others. Is this really what the SN board has come to? Are we not allowed to have a moan when we are having a bad time? Are we not allowed to be proud of the little somethings that our DC achieve?

I would love Amber to feel she can stay on the SN boards, but I don't want to have to watch everything I am typing. I'm not trying to sound harsh or nasty, but I do feel that if we are to only talk about nice things, then there is no point in having the support of the SN board.

sorry I realize I worded that crassly. by "your average mn'er" I mean obviously that people aren't likely to just browse the disabled parents section unless they are a disabled parent thus meaning that like-minded individuals are likely to be there, iyswim.

My issue with having "amber's corner" is that it appears to be selective to one person, and although it obviously isn't, someone else with asd or as who takes things literally might still find it hard to post there as it's "amber's" space, iyswim.

...and i'm not sure that AMBER herself would like the attention that naming a corner after her would bring.

wannabe, I think thats a great idea. I think amber maybe worries she will be isolated over in disabled parents, (btw I don't know that for sure just a feeling) she has made cyber friends here and wants to be nearby I think.

5inthebed. For me this board should be where you can say anything you want to about your child. I don't actually, but that is more because of how it is then used elsewhere on the wider board. I would love to however, and my sons SN aren't that massive in comparison, although huge to us at times.

5inthebed imo a lot of the not posting negative things on the sn board stems more from the fact that there are posters who then use it against you later on an anti thread.

slightlycrumpled x post

(Actually, that has struck me all along: even before this issue came up, there have been a lot of threads with 'Amber' in the title and I'd feel concerned that that might be a bit pressuring and intense for her.)

I only suggested Amber;s corner in my post because I was told that a separate section for parents with disabilities (eg AS) was not wanted. I made a suggestion similar to wannabe's last night (without the moving of the section which might be a good idea if current posters were happy) but was told it wasn't what was being asked for.

No it would be inappropriate to use Amber's name (for everyone's sake not just hers). She never asked to be mumsnet royalty.

ok, so if a separate section isn't wanted, and it not appropriate to use Amber's name, then is there really a solution?

as harsh as this may sound, can you really expect to stifle the views of many for fear of upsetting one?

calling it The Respite Corner or silmilar would WELCOME ANYONE who needs a break