New to SN how would you have got him out of this tantrum?

[OHforDUCKScake]

Son 6.5, has regular tantrums. Weekly and we arent very good at preventing them and worse at talking him down from them. He can almost never be talked down from a tantrum, he has to do a full circle. Usually an hour or so long.

5pm dinner time (early but we all start the day early, go to bed early etc - this is rules by the kids, what works best for them).
DS refuses to eat dinner, says his tummy hurts (this old chestnut), was fine when he had an ice lollie and hr before, and seemed fine when playing out with friends before dinner.

So I tell him to lay on the sofa, or if its bad, go to bed and I'll come up after my dinner.

He chooses sofa but shouts and screams when I say no to TV. (im not having tv distract his brother further and neither have dinner).

After 30 mins DS decides that he does want his dinner, so we are behind schedule and that usually means adorable tantrums from him at bed time.

He finishes dinner, and starts screaming that he doesnt want bed time and he wants more TV.

I say that we arent getting into a row, we are going up, running a bath and he can join us or not.

30 more mins of him screaming from down stairs 'come and get meeeeee' im not having a bath etc etc etc

Hes had sun cream on so we say baby wipes if no bath. And bath in the morning.
More screaming and shouting.
his dad puts on a fun 'baby wipe monster/tickle monster' persona to get it done. DS screams and shouts. (He would have done without the babywipe monster).

Refuses to get undressed or let us undress him. Refuses to brush his teeth.

Constant screaming and shouting.

I settling his brother.

I go to DS's room to see DS on his coverless bed (hes kicked them off) kicking his dad in his back and screaming. His dad has his back turned, arms folded riding it out, Ive heard him try and calm him down for ages. Hes resorted to 'waiting out the tantrum'

I tell his dad to go dowmstairs and have a breather while Im take over.

Another 30 mins and the only way to placate him is with pencils and paper.

It works, he sleeps.

But not before saying to me "Mum, next time I, naughty at bed time can we do drawings again?"

The bloody drawings added a good half an hour on, NO im not doing it every bed time.

Im at a fricking loss because BOTH out children are very needy for completely different reasons and I camt be doing for 2 hour long bed times ending with only 30 mins of drawing.

Im the midst I tried distracting him with an errand. I read that worked.

It didnt.

I know it's awful but I wouldn't placate DD woth anything but just try to ride it out. I wouldnt discuss it with her either but just leave her to calm down on her own. This has worked as she has much shorter tantrums now.

I know all kids are different though.

Also if I had said DD was having a bath and she screamed she still would have to have a bath and just scream in it.

Maybe I am harsh though.

well, I think most of us on this board have been there :-)
Someone told me once that my ds won't die from a tantrum, it made me feel much less inclined to give him lots of attention to try to placate him. Early doors, when he was little, I might try to distract him out of it, but if he got going then I would leave him to it. Your ds seems to have quite some control and if it were me I might change the choices to those that were going to be followed through. So no dinner, your choice of lie down or bed, changed into dinner when he felt like it. I might have told him to lie down for half an hour to see how he feels, then we can see if he is still too poorly for dinner- so you stay in charge. The n bath time I wouldn't offer a choice, we have set bath nights and on bath nights you have a bath, end of. I might have given him a time limit to get up the stairs then a consequence. And he still has to have a bath! I would try and avoid sitting being kicked too - been there, got that tshirt- now I just tell ds I will be back when he is calmer and leave him to it. Your ds seems to have got a very nice activity and avoided his bath, an d eaten his tea when he chose to...so he has found himself quite a successful strategy. That's not a judgement, it's an observation. As I say, many many of us have been there and know what it is like. If it helps, my ds is 11 now and I would say we are down to maybe 2 meltdowns a month, we used to have 2 in an hour :-)

You have to be consistent and not let the tantrum achieve what he wants, I find.

We have been consistent for years. Literally.

We have only been placating him for the last week or two since we realised he has dyspraxia and he isnt just a problem child.

We have never, ever talked him down from a tantrum. Nor prevented one.

The always ended with one od us being violently booted in the back until he is tired.

Im quite suprised by the reaponses. It isnt what I expected at all.

I assumed you approached tantrums with SN children differently to NT children.

Obviously not though, this has shocked me.

But why would you stay to get booted in the back repeatedly? Unacceptable behaviour is still unacceptable whatever diagnosis is behind it. My ds has autism but placating him every time he has a tantrum isn't going to help him develop his lagging skills...we pick our battles, true, but as far as I know there isn't a magic difference that solves handling an sn child. Wish there was!

Having dyspraxia doesn't have much to do with wanting to stay up and draw rather than going to bed.

I see my DD sometimes has meltdowns due to sensory issues but often she is just having a good.old fashioned tantrum.

No.

But from what I have read, you approach children with SN differently depending on who they are, and what their needs are.

From the answers on here, I may as well have posted in Chat and not mentioned any SN at all.

I feel as though I am banging my head against a brick wall, in every way I turn with my son and how to handle him.

I'm afraid that letting is run its course is often the only thing you can do. No negotiating or pleading or "trying to calm him down" or laying down the rules, (so I'm disagreeing with ilikemysleep, here) as it adds to the stress - if your DS is having a true meltdown, as I suspect he is if he's anxious about bathtimes, it's far more than an "I want my own way" tantrum. If DS1 refuses his food because of anxiety, we either tell him that it will be there until we wash the dishes, if he wants it later, or, if it's something that will keep, that it's in the fridge (it's easy to lose one's appetite if anxious about something).

The pencils and paper are a good distraction and do help him to calm down - while you run his bath. Tell him he's got until such and such a time with the pencils and paper, then he needs to get that bath over and done with - and if he does it quickly enough, he can then do more drawing until bedtime. (Maybe, if he does hate baths, it might help to have a favoured activity he does exclusively on bathnights.)

And for full idisclosure, when DS1 was smaller, we did just bath him anyhow, but the bigger they get, the more unfeasible that is and the more likely it will result in someone getting hurt.

You asked us how we deal with our children.

I told you how I deal with my DD, and it has worked for us.

I thought that all SN could cross over with others?

My son has major issues re tantrums his whole life. If it isnt because of SN, somehow then I can only assume you think it might be my parenting (or lack there of), which I assure you it is not.

My son was born difficult.

Nighttimes and bed times were difficult from the day he was born, and Im bot exaggerating.

If this is not part of his SN (ok so maybe not part of his dyspraxia per se) then I'll eat my hat.

Do you know what fuck it.
Posting this has made me feel like a fucking failure as a mother,

If you cant get help from SN forum then where can you?

My DD has also had major issues with tantrums.

I have just recently discovered a way of handling it that works for us.

We are the last people who would criticise others parenting.

I was just saying what works for me.

You are lashing out at the wrong people here.

As if we think it's just a matter of parenting. Do stop and think for a moment.

Also FWIW I developed the methods I used with DD after attending a really helpful course for parents of children with autism and "challenging behaviour"

It sounds to me like you really need a very clear routine.

Can you:

1. Set out a regular routine on a whiteboard or using laminated visual symbols so that he knows what he is doing and when throughout the day. There are loads of resources out there if you google 'visual timetable'. You can look at the order of things together

1. Talk to him about problem issues in 'quiet times'. Work on them one at a time. Starting with what is bothering you most. Tell him there are rules for his health and safety and yours - non-negotiable - and he is getting big.

3.Give him some control and choices where you can. But when you have made a decision STICK TO IT. Pick your battles but be very clear about what you expect from him - e.g. you must eat but you can choose your tea or make it fun and ask him to make it with you. If you want him to have a bath - tell him, it is bathtime now but get some special bubble he can use or bath crayons or something to encourage and distract but don't back down. This is why it is important only to put your foot down about the stuff that really matters.

1. Use a reward chart and work with him on changing behaviour to work towards a prize

Just some suggestions.

Again as Fanjo says, these are only things that have worked for us.

FWIW I really sympathise that you must be feeling at end of tether and it is a shame we don't just have easy answers to help.

Ourvye, I don't necessarily think we do massively disagree. I wouldn't lay a rule down mid- meltdown about meltdown topic, but op said ds starting screaming after eating that he wanted more tv, not bedtime, so she said she wasn't arguing but was off to run the bath and he could join them or not. Then later that changed to bath now, or wipes now, and bath in the morning. I wouldn't have offered a choice in the first place, when he started screaming after tea I 'd have said 'you sound very frustrated about it being the end of the day. I expect you would like to stay downstairs, hmm? But, it's bathtime so as you are a bit wobbly you can have 5 mins to calm down while I run the bath and do your brother, then it will be your turn'. Then I 'd shout down a 2 min warning ( or tell him 2 mins till bathtime if he was still schen a 30 second warning, then call him up. I wouldn't introduce the idea of any consequence until he'd had several chances to comply.

Op you are coming across as quite cross with us that we don't have a special strategy. Most of us do what we find works. I find setting time limits and an expectation works for us. I would not placate a meltdown, nor would I punish one. I just let them happen and wait. Sorry we can't be as helpful as you want.

The course I attended had basic rules.

1. analyse the behaviour while it isn't happening

2. think about what they are trying to achieve with the behaviour.

3. give them another way of achieving what they want which is more acceptable way to behave

4. be consistent and ride it out as things often get worse before they get better

It was obviously more in depth than that but the people running it really seem to understand ASD

I.e it wasn't some crappy NT parenting skills course that some of us get sent on

meal times and bathtimes used to be very similar to what you've described there, OHfor - it's bloody horrible isn't it?

we now give DD her dinner before us, and she has a bath before her dinner, but only has a bath twice a week.

she cannot stand the smell of the food DH and I like to eat, and she dreads the bath, so we have a totally different regime for her and her alone.

i don't think she was tantrumming though, for her it's more of a panic attack as she has huge sensory issues, smells actually hurt her, and her obsession re; water and splashes is enough to send her into meltdown at times.

it's difficult to 'advise' here, because all our DCs have different issues, even if the medics give it the same letters/diagnosis.

when you say you 'realise he has dyspraxia', can you explain more about this?

i can't give definitive answers here, no-one on the board can, but there is huge variety of experiences that maybe some will ring similar?

Op you asked us how we would have handled that situation to get your ds out of that tantrum. Of course he is so apt to tantrum because of his sn, we totally get that. Almost all of us have had smug NT parents judge us with screaming little ones. We just told you what we would do, as requested. If you wanted general tips on managing sn, like inappropriately's helpful suggestions above, then you might want to ask for a slight change of title. There are lots of things as inappropriately says that might prevent tantrums, but to be fair on us SN mums that wasn't what you asked for. You asked what we would have done to stop the tantrum, and we told you, we would let it run its course. Not what we would do to prevent such tantrums.

Oh Duckscake it sounds like you've had a really stressful couple of hours and you're doing what all of us have done (or still do in my case) which is to blame yourself. It is natural as a mother (not sure fathers feel quite the same so apologies to any reading if I've got that wrong) to feel guilty about everything that isn't perfect with our kids. Honestly, no one in here is attacking you or your parenting but just saying what does or doesn't work for them.
From what you've said you have regular issues with your son so have you ever tried keeping an ABC log? That is antecedent (what happened immediately before the tantrum), behaviour (what did he actually do) and consequence (what did his behaviour achieve? Avoiding dinner for instance or getting your attention). If you try and do this religious for say a week then you may see a pattern, is it worse on school days, when he is tired or hungry, when he's been out etc.
Also decide with your partner or clear rules for the most common situations beforehand that you both stick to and don't give in. And decide what the most important things are as we cant sweat the small stuff so if for example he wants toast for dinner every so often then maybe it's best to let him have it but don't say no first and then say ok if he whines. Or say ok but make him help you make it. He will get the message eventually.
Ps. It is very easy to give someone else advice but much harder to follow it yourself - with four kids to look after I definitely don't always practise what I preach!

Ooh one more thing - if baths are a problem but he likes drawing could you get him some of those bath crayons?

Hi. I think you dealt and coped with him really well. Flyinboy was a major tantrumer. We became adept at pre thinking it, giving prewarnings and countdowns to change. It was hell but It Gets Better! Honest. Some people ise weighted blankets so that might work. If he is dyspraxic he might hate the feeling of water or the cold feeling of taking his clothes off so see if he can tell you. Perhaps give him choices like, do you want to run the bath? Or which colour towel to dry yourself on.

Cranial osteopathy worked well for us. Things improve the more articulate they get but it is really difficult to untangle the paddy that is SN caused and the paddy which is just them being a little bugger and quite often its a combo of the two. I would, if you can stand it, let him scream it out and don't give him any attention. He does sound like he's ruling the roost and actually you and your husband need to be in charge and no amount of SEN, and Flyingboy has five different diagnosed conditions, condones poor behaviour. I now have a mostly lovely eighteen year old.

I'm sorry you are pissed off with us but I'm not sure what you were wanting. We all sympathise, we've all been in your boat and different people do what works for them. We don't all get it right, i certainly didn't but you do what you have to.

If he hasn't been DXed yet he could have PDA, which needs handled in totally different way.

If he gets DX of this there will be people here who can help