New to SN how would you have got him out of this tantrum?

[OHforDUCKScake]

Son 6.5, has regular tantrums. Weekly and we arent very good at preventing them and worse at talking him down from them. He can almost never be talked down from a tantrum, he has to do a full circle. Usually an hour or so long.

5pm dinner time (early but we all start the day early, go to bed early etc - this is rules by the kids, what works best for them).
DS refuses to eat dinner, says his tummy hurts (this old chestnut), was fine when he had an ice lollie and hr before, and seemed fine when playing out with friends before dinner.

So I tell him to lay on the sofa, or if its bad, go to bed and I'll come up after my dinner.

He chooses sofa but shouts and screams when I say no to TV. (im not having tv distract his brother further and neither have dinner).

After 30 mins DS decides that he does want his dinner, so we are behind schedule and that usually means adorable tantrums from him at bed time.

He finishes dinner, and starts screaming that he doesnt want bed time and he wants more TV.

I say that we arent getting into a row, we are going up, running a bath and he can join us or not.

30 more mins of him screaming from down stairs 'come and get meeeeee' im not having a bath etc etc etc

Hes had sun cream on so we say baby wipes if no bath. And bath in the morning.
More screaming and shouting.
his dad puts on a fun 'baby wipe monster/tickle monster' persona to get it done. DS screams and shouts. (He would have done without the babywipe monster).

Refuses to get undressed or let us undress him. Refuses to brush his teeth.

Constant screaming and shouting.

I settling his brother.

I go to DS's room to see DS on his coverless bed (hes kicked them off) kicking his dad in his back and screaming. His dad has his back turned, arms folded riding it out, Ive heard him try and calm him down for ages. Hes resorted to 'waiting out the tantrum'

I tell his dad to go dowmstairs and have a breather while Im take over.

Another 30 mins and the only way to placate him is with pencils and paper.

It works, he sleeps.

But not before saying to me "Mum, next time I, naughty at bed time can we do drawings again?"

The bloody drawings added a good half an hour on, NO im not doing it every bed time.

Im at a fricking loss because BOTH out children are very needy for completely different reasons and I camt be doing for 2 hour long bed times ending with only 30 mins of drawing.

Im the midst I tried distracting him with an errand. I read that worked.

It didnt.

Okay. Keep a log of the calls you make plus when you left a message. It can give you ammunition later if you can reel off attempted but non-responded to contacts.

Just looked at that link. They are therapy services. You want diagnostic services I think!? (As well as therapy services, though they may well refuse you on the grounds of no dx).

Says they take referrals from parents. Forward thinking! I would phone and ask what the process is for triage of referrals, who this is, what their ext no is and what the time frame is for accepting/declining. THEN I would ask specifically about your ds.

I will do, I'll do all of the above, thank you.

Tonight went fine.

This is mainly because he is loving the lucky dip idea. This has helped, not a peep out of him.

Also though, his little brother stayed down stairs with me. His brother isnt the cause of the tantrums, I can see at dinner time when a tantrum will happen 2 hours in the future. And the tantrums at bed time happened waaaaay before his brother was born. However, I dont think it helps, the noise the distraction, the toy stealing at bed time.

Hes very sensitive to noises and lights, has been since he was in utero (literally, Id feel him 'jump' if a loud noise was near by. I had to leave a friends garden once when her husband was sawing because the baby kept 'jumping' inside me. I digress....) so I figured the best time for quiet and calm was at bed time.

Again this isnt the catalyst but it certainly will not be helping!

Im going to take the suggestion by Polter and make my own weighted item for the bed. Will track down a sewing machine.

Thanks everyone.

Just spoken to them. Physiotherapy is a few months waiting list (6) yay!

But the waiting list for an OT is.... Wait for it....

4 years. :-(

Absolutely gutted.

FOUR YEARS? Did they say that with a straight face? Who are they kidding!!! THAT IS NOT A SERVICE (sorry, shouting... I AM shouting though......) I would escalate that, somehow. You MUST make a complaint. How awful.

Oh that's rotten. It's 18 months here which is ridiculous enough (and CAMHS has no OT so it's OT or dx, not both)

Can you get the gp and other profs to ring and get him bumped, we've been bumped up a few waiting lists thanks to dieticians, GPs or school ringing and complaining on our behalf.

Im lucky I even got that referral. Ive seen two GP's about it, they both shrug and keep telling me not to get my hopes up.

The school just keeps saying that an OT is non existent and to go through my GP

So basically, we have to pay hundreds for a private OT and stay on the waiting list for physio. Im incredibly glad that physio will get to us though, this is something I really want to get started for him.

Im not really sure what else to do, my ears are very much open though, your advice so far has been absolutely gold.

Your DS sounds like my DS - dyspraxic, early riser, tantrums to be seen to be believed! We have also tried every method possible re the tantrums.

We have been to see an OT after referral fromour GP. They have discharged him even though he is in the bottom 9% for his balance & coordination as I am already doing everything at home that they would do. [Did LOTS of research on the internet]They did 'helpfully' send us some leaflets on how to tie shoe laces etc! They referenced his dyslexic tendencies but nobody is willing/able to give us any support on that.

To get over the tantrums we made a note of tantrums & any associations so we could see if there was a pattern etc. We noticed a difference between the tantrums i.e. if they were out of frustration, down to tiredness or general PITA! There were some tantrums that were due to his dyspraxia, mainly from frustration boiling over (especially as DS2 is 2 years younger and is often able to do things DS1 can't). Other tantrums were linked to his dyspraxia in that he can get very tired as he needs to put extra work in to stay balanced so sitting at a table for any length of time is not only hard but tiring for him (something we never realised!). Other tantrums were down to him being 7 and a PITA! It makes life easier when you know the difference between the tantrums as they need a different approach.

It took 6 months from referral to see the OT. Whilst we were waiting for an appointment I phoned the OT department and asked what I could be doing at home to support. The person I spoke to was really helpful and it eant that I could get cracjing rather than wait. Some of the things were very basic but have helped enormously. DS has caring cutlery which helps (although he will still use his hands if I'm not looking), he has a step for his feet at the table which means he can sit for almost 10 minutes(!), and triangular pencil grips. The thing that I think has helped the most is improving his confidence! The trick they suggested for this was to let DS do the last thing of a task so that he feels he has succeeded and then when he is proficient at that, let him do the second last bit. [example - zipping up his coat. I would put the bit in the zipper and pull a small way & get himto pull it the rest of the way up. Once mastered, I put the bit into the zipper and let him pull it up, then I would line the bit up over the zipper and get him to put the bit in and finally we progressed to him doing it himself. At each stage he felt good because he ended up doing the zip up & his confidence increased!!]. It doesn't always work and you have to know when to quit - DS is just not getting the hang of shoe laces so we've stopped for a while.

Apologies - just realised this is a mamoth post! Basically, all kids have tantrums. If DS is having a tantrum related to his SN see if you can head them off early. If DS is having a tantrum because he is testing boundaries/being a PITA, you have to find what works for you - not as easy as it sounds I know! DS had a massive tantrum at a social occasion this weekend. Mainly because he was tired from his stage school.

Unfortunately the NHS is under-resourced so the best way to help your DS is to do it yourself. We have been discharged becuase I was proactive and am determined to help my son. If I had sat back and done nothing we would be getting regular follow ups with the OT!

MN was a good resource for me as well as 'google'. Good luck!

Thats extremely helpful thank you. Ive just bought two dyspraxia books from amazon, one for exercises and the other about dyspraxia in general and how to help and support him.

Can I ask, where you got the cutlery?

Im about to to go and track down a pencil triangle I think that should be easy enough to find.

Thanks so much, and yes your son sounds absolutely identical to mine!!

I googled caring cutlery and ordered it online from somewhere (can't remember where - sorry). Do shop around though as prices vary greatly!!!

It can be very frustrating sometimes but try and stay positive. DS's teacher admitted that she thought that he was lazy back in September but having explained dyspraxia to her and outlined what he struggles with & why, she has been able to take that into account. He won an award a few weeks ago for most improved pupil. He still struggles in class but we are learning what works and what doesn't. Just a shame he's changing teachers and I've got to start all over again...

Lack of official diagnosis doesn't help (even after seeing OT they won't 'officially' diagnose as they are not prepared to give us any help!)but I've ploughed on for the last 9 months as if we have had it officially confirmed and followed all of the advice out there and we are making progress! You will have to fight for your DS but it is sooooo rewarding when you break through to the next level! Luckily dyspraxia is something you can help with without the specialists once you are armed with some knowledge! Just remember there will ALWAYS be good days and bad days. Try not to sweat the small stuff (much, much easier said than done!!)

Thank you. Advice very much taken on board.

Ive got some triangle pencil holders (although then said he doesnt get on with them, doh!) and tracked down some care cutlery.

Had a bit of a fail with the stool under the table at dinner though because his non-stop-moving feet kept knocking it all over the place, namely into my shins! Worth a shot though

Well £360 for initial consulation to go private and £70 an hour after that.

Fuck.

Im going to read all the books, take all the tips, do all the exercises and take the physio. If nothing improves then I guess I'll have to take out a small loan as we absolutely cannot afford that.

To be honest, we got an NHS assessment which was really a waste of time - they didn't tell me anything I didn't already know & discharged us as we were already doing at home what thy would have done!

One of the key things that stuck in my mind is retraining the brain! It's taken me ages (and I don't always succeed) to not sound like I'm nagging. Just keep trying to get DS to do things over and over till it becomes more natural. Letting them do the last bit is great for their confidence and success breeds success.

Good luck.

OHforduckssake - has he been assessed for sensory issues? There is huge overlap between SPD (Sensory processing Disorder) and Dyspraxia. The tantrums could be a result of too much sensory input, but what would help him calm down, would depend on him individually.
My son used to "loose the plot" regularly, but now he is better modulated it is very, very rare - infact I can't remember the last one.

I think dealing with tantrums with SEN children - most of us will handle it the same, but what I know I do, is I now know my son's triggers, and I try and avoid those.....basically he needs down time, and I make sure he gets that. he also needs intense physical exercise, we make sure he gets that.

I also know now that if he is worried or stressed about something, he becomes very emotional, so if thats starts to happen, I make sure I spend time with him and ease out of him what is bothering him......it has taken 18months to get to this point.

He hasnt been assesed for sensory issues but I keep telling them that he has them, he has since he was born, literally.

To be honest, what has become abundantly clear, is that absolutely no one is going to asses him for anything whatsoever.

Im absolutely shocked and appalled at what they are not doing.

I had no idea this sort of thing, in this day and age had such little support, information, referrals, information or help.

Its fucking horrifying.

Unfortunately it's becoming more common . DS2's teacher & GP think he is ADHD. GP referred him (twice!) and the childrens centre have said that he doesn't have it - without even seeing him! We have now been referred to Barnardos .

Actually the lady from Barnardos was really helpful although there is a waiting list for them to get involved & then if it is ADHD rather than parenting, they will refer back & the childrens centre MIGHT put him on their waiting list!

Have only just been scrapped down from the ceiling after that one! Thank god for charities eh!

4 years? That's one to take up with PALS.

OT weren't even taking on cases that were anything to do with ASD when DS1 was little, thanks to funding politics. It's a severely underfunded service.

Sensory is such a hard thing to get your head around, it is so complex and many OT's don't understand it, as it requires further training from your basic OT course.

I take DS to hopscotch in london - their website has some good info on it, which could be a place to start. Our OT there recommends sensational kids - which is an easier read than out of sync child.