this is not really a SN thing, but you will all know the implications and ramifications much better...

[silverfrog]

dh and I aren't getting on.

well, it's me really. he is (apart from me being a snappy cow at times ) happy enough. I am not.

dh works long hours. very long hours. and you all know we have moved and moved again because of dd1's school etc.

when we had children, we agreed that I would be a sahm. and that was fine. except then, of course, dd1 has issues, and life is not exactly as we planned it to be (when is it? but ykwim, hopefully)

thing is, it is my life that got changed in all that. yes, dh's expectations and hopes for dd1 went by the wayside (and got exchanged for a new set), but otherwise his life carries on as normal. mine hasn't, and won't. the girls are at school now, so of course I have time in the day, but that is quite restricted when you take into account the 2 separate schools, pick up/drop off times etc. I can't join any of the PTA/form rep stuff at dd2's school, for eg, because of meeting times - am always an hour late.

I am studying, so this is not so much about something for me. I can exercise during the day now. all that is fine. but I can't for eg, get to tutorials for my degree in the evenings. because dh is at work. babysitters don't work that well, as dd1 ends up with sleep issues, and having come out of 3 years of that recently, I have no desire to go back there.

dh's solution is to throw money at it (which luckily we can afford). again, fine up to a point. but I don't just want to be able to go and do things - I want to be able to do them with someone (that someone used to be dh, but am not so sure these days, after years of not really ever seeing him) - not in a joined at the hip way. but even if I go and do stuff myself, he is not there to chat to when I get back. or he is there, but in body only - doing more bloody work.

he does work long hours, and we have a great life (materially speaking) because of that. he loves his work though - a real "carry him out in a box" type. so while it is work, it is also a passion.

so. things have come to a head, and I am thinking about splitting up. there is no marriage left - all we talk about is the girls, we disagree on most other things, and end up snipping and picking at each other.

BUT if we split up, of course, then I still don't get any time to myself, and the girls will see even less of their dad. if I stay, I get the odd evening off a bit more, and could have more if we can get the babysitting/childcare sorted, but would be staying for the convenience, as I am not into the marriage anymore.

but the thought of eg 12 days (dh works away a lot, so while he would have some evenings with them some weeks, it is not guaranteed) of the girls, on my own, with no break, regularly, and no one to talk to (even if that is just a terse conversation, or platitudes about our days) does not exactly fill me with glee.

dh doesn't think we should split up - he thinks it is still workable. well, he would, wouldn't he? he gets to live his life (albeit with a crabby and chaotic wife), and come home to a (messy and disorganised) house and his children. he points out, quite rightly, that splitting up would not solve what I want - ie him to spend more time (and proper focussed time) with us/the girls. that I would be as stressed, and as snowed under as I am now. my argument is that splitting up and doing it alone would at least mean that I knew I was alone, iyswim? not pretending to be in a partnership where half of us is not pulling their (emotional) weight. which would mean a lot to my sanity.

oh bollocks. I don't know what to do.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=todo+ese+no+cabe+forges&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&tbm=isch&tbnid=MbhmgDDLyq6sXM:&imgrefurl=elromancesonambulo.blogspot.com/2011/03/todo-eso-no-cabe.html&docid=WXmlzEQXY0Ta5M&w=400&h=300&ei=YM2ITtO4PMmp8AOg0vFg&zoom=1&biw=1024&bih=690" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">A woman tried to state her profession to a form-filler. Cleaner, cook, tailor, ironing service, maidservant, nanny, teacher, switchboard operator, receptionist, chauffeur, psychiatrist, nurse, economist, mathematician, chief executive, sensual geisha and lover.

But all of this doesn't fit, he said. Ah well, just put housewife then.

Is there any way the counselling might help you both to work out how much of the trouble is the relationship itself, and how much is actually due to the situation?

Just sending you hugs. TBH, if he's no bloody help anyway, you won't be missing much. Just got to make sure it's financially viable and you can get a support network going. Your DD's SS should be worth the effort if at all possible. Maybe aim some childcare in the meantime at giving you the opportunity to get into the social side of the SS? Once you have a better support network, things may seem better, or you may feel more empowered to leave him.

Just want to say how sorry I am to hear this silverfrog.

Just a suggestion. Can you afford more help? I know friends whose dhs work very long hours, travel a lot etc. and they have help - some of them have a lot of help. They say that it makes it easier to cope. For example, someone who could have packed the bags ready for the family to go out, someone to cook the meals, do the dishwasher etc. It also means that if they want to go out for lunch etc. there is someone to pick up the children or wait for them.

Really hope that it works out for you.

Could you afford an au pair type bod? Make it clear her role is more about housework than childcare bar a school pick up once or twice a week so you can feel a bit involved at the NT child's school?

It occurred to me this week, with a broken washing machine that our kids require so much effort on the parenting front that housework on top is just too much for our stress levels, especially as our kids can generate much more mess than the norm in terms of age. 2 hours a day of someone to pick up crap, wash up, sort the laundry might make all the difference to your sanity levels. Perhaps it could give you back an hour once the kids are in bed to relax.

If your hubby gets frustrated by the state of the house, but is locked in the "me provider, me cave man role," he isn't gonna help. You are gonna feel constantly stressed and as if you never get a break. If he's on good money it might be one way of reeducing your load so you feel less overtired and snappy all the time.

Our environment is important. You also sound as if you NEED a bit of space to yourself to revitalise sometimes. Your health is at risk if you don't get that.

I still rec leaving him to it at some point for shock treatment and the counselling. At the moment though it sounds as if you are so snowed under that councilling would be just another drudgery chore to fit in. Hard to see how you'd get any benefit in those circumstances.

A daily cleaner/mothers help AND councilling could work. It IS about you, though he does sound willing to save the marriage. Don't throw it away without a fight.

Being a Mum should be fun sometimes, even if our kids do have additional needs ya know?

Is it possible that, like me, you're trying to decide between less hassle by staying and less aggravation/stress by leaving? Your DH doesn't seem like he wants to split, for whatever his reasons, but perhaps, like my DH, he isn't great at communicating or simply is too frustrated right now to look past the immediate issues.

I know that sometimes the little ongoing aggravations leave me seething, as it seems like he is TRYING to wind me up. If there is any way you can have specific time on your own regularly, to unwind, clear your head, whatever you need, that might be helpful. For me, it's simply that DH has returned to work finally after being signed off for months. Toooo much togetherness!!!

Take a week and look at the situation with a clinical eye, completely detached. That's what I'm trying to do this week. I can already see that some things are winding me up that normally wouldn't, so I'm trying to retain some perspective to see if perhaps some of the stress is simply compounding and making things much worse than they should be (if that makes any sense whatsoever!).

the main issue, I think, is that I want to be in a marriage where we are partners. where it is not just one person's needs that get met. where we discuss things, and his input is more than "whatever you think".

we could afford help. a cleaner would be good (to be fair, it is me who refuses this, not dh who won't pay). we have tried nannies (unsuccessfully) but will proabably try again. yes, it takes the heat off me wrt daily grind, but it does not give me my marriage back. which is what I found out over the summer (nd why it has come to a head again, I suppose) - we end up just living parallel lives in the same house. less niggles, and less stress for me, but still no husband, iyswim?

and it is that that bothers me. I don't want a husband who is joined at the hip, but I do want one who takes an interest in us and our lives (and more than a passing interest at that). I do want someone who will think about some of the ASD issues, and discuss them with me properly, rather than just 'go along' with whatever I decide therapy wise - that just leaves me feeling as though I am the only one with responsibility for dd1 (and dd2, on separate issues).

Do you mind if I ask if your dh is Asian/Chinese?

Just that in most of these cultures the male leave childcare decisions to the females - not because it is not important but so as not to take over the other's territory iyswim.

DUnno, my dh also leaves all the decisions to me. I think it is laziness but he says if he makes a decision I will overrule it. Again I tell him he is lazy because the only reason I would overrule it is because he hasn't thought through all the implications just chosen any old answer.

There is one very wierd thing though. I write lots to LA bods/school/HT etc. but he has this thing where he wants to check the letter for grammatical mistakes. I should be annoyed about it (have to say though that since being out of work and lots on MN my grammar HAS taken a bit of a dive) but actually his reading through and making suggestions on wording means that he is aware of my efforts and on board with them etc. so I kind of let it go. control freak that he is.

dh is not asian, no.

lenin: school run thing just not going to happen. seriously. even if we split, he would end up seeing the girls from eg 6pm on a weeknight. no way would/could he do a school run, either drop off or pick up.

the decisions thing: I have spent the last 12 years with him, listening to how he wishes he could be more involved with his (older) children's lives - the little stuff. not just be a 'contact dad'. (that makes it sound like he goes on about it all the time - he doesn't.). and to be fair, he has tried, and his ex did not make it easy (and still doesn't). and so, I bend over backwards to keep him in the loop. and we are talking (as you all know) about some pretty big decisions - not just 'which school', but which method of teaching, which LA to live in, which SN school is easier to get a decision on. which 'style' of ABA (given that you end up 'doing' it as a family), which consultant - he should be as happy as me that we have made the right choice etc. and all I get back is 'whatever you think'.

he doesn't see what I do as a full time job. at all. (although of course it is a full time job when a nanny does it). and his work has not doubled since the girls came along - any pre-schooler increases work around the house, and again, as you all know, SN adds loads to that. but there is nothing that he has changed/picked up the slack on. to an extent mine hasn't changed since the SN became apparent - I did it all before, I do it all now. what has changed is my future - as Starlight said earlier, a lot of it is about feeling trapped. my options are reduced, his are unchanged.

we could outsource loads - he would like to. but that is not the life I want. I want to be have our house, with our children (and his!) in it, and enjoy that togehter (which of course will mean doing bits of it separately at times). not bring up my children in conjunction with a nanny, have someone else sort out our life, and still never see each other.

we've been ABA-ing for 4 years now . seen 3 different consultants, and dd1 is now at her second ABA school. I think we're settled in it

you are right. I did love him once. before children. when everything he said re: me staying at home and it being just as important etc was just that - words. now it is a reality, and it does not match up. he may say it, but he doesn't mean it.

and it was fine for him to be working all hours pre-children. I did too (well, I was a student then, as now - some things never change ) - but as we all know, life pre-children is vastly different from life post children. and life with SN children is vastly different from any expectation of life with children - it really wasn't meant to be like this (unexpectedly fun in weird way though it still is!)

I am comfortable with what I do. my house is a mess, and I wish I could be more organised, but apart form that, I do a reasonably good job. my girls are great, and even if I am always the mum at school who is rushing in at the last minute, well, the important things are done (that is, important ot me - thye are well fed, they are clean, they ahve done their homework (where applicable), etc.). what I don't like is that we have all these extra things to deal with, which were not part of the original deal, and I am dealing with them all - decisions like whether to vaccinate or not should not be just down to me. they are not just my children, and it is not a decision which I feel is answered well with a 'whatever you think'. I have spent a long time reading and researching on that (for various reasons). I doubt dh could even begin to sum up why I think it is a bad idea for dd2, aside from the headline stuff that everyone knows (which isn't actually my reasoning). but he has done zero reading on it. yes, the trust angle is good, I suppose, in that he trusts me to make a big decision and knows I have turned over every angle. but the implications are huge, and the responsibility of it shoudl not be down to me lone - not when I have repeatedly asked him wht he thinks, and asked him to read some of the stuff on it (so he is not just getting my pov, but able to form his own). that is just one example. dietary issues are another - a big change, with some big implications. I would like to know what he thinks about it. I would like him to read some of the stuff, hae athink, and for us to discuss it and agree a course of action. because he is as much their parent as I am.

zzzz, ABA doesn't put a strain on families, quite the opposite. Trying to access it and deal with predjudice and hostility does though.

Silver I have read through all the advice you are getting here, have you written out a list of reasons for staying versus reasons for going? If you were a friend looking in on the situation, what would you advise?

How old are your dd's are they always going to be at separate schools? (Will the school run thing ever get easier is what I am asking).

I absolutely second the pp who said book a week away, leaving dh to deal with everything, he needs to walk in your shoes for a week, and if he does not adjust his lifestyle for you after that then you may have the answer. You must be so worn down by everything it is hard to think straight, you need the space to figure it out. You really need to do it (maybe try and go somewhere with your lovely friend) - if you can't manage a week right now, then a long weekend, leaving Thursday night back Monday evening. It is important you are away on school days, so your dh gets to experience everything.

Can your dh do any of his work at home?

I take it you have no family support? My family have been there so much for me through all our struggles with dealing with sn, my Mum stays weekly, just to help me out but I have also regularly over the years gone away for weekends, sometimes with my dd, leaving dh with ds - so I get some one to one time with dd and a break from my lovely but demanding ds. I always think my dh adjusted his respect for me when he has to do everything, and he is nearly always home for eating together and gets involved with homework etc.

How do you get your OH to get involved in the decisions though? I am truly at a loss on this one as well, so I can see where silverfrog is coming from. I spent hours (over weeks) putting together the DLA paperwork and writing up something for the answers, as well as the paperwork for DS2's statement. I asked DH's opinion and all I got was "whatever you put will be good. I'm fine with it." he read perhaps a paragraph, glazed over a bit, and handed it back saying it looked fine. I was unbelievably upset over that - I'd wanted input, feedback, constructive criticism even. And got basically "whatever you think" with no more interest than if I'd said it was raining outside. And this goes on all the time - he leaves it all to me, all the responsibility and stress. If I push him at all to make a decision or get involved in it, it ends up in an argument (because he says whatever I decide is fine so he doesn't get why I still want his opinion).

I see a LOT of mums of children with SNs bemoaning this on the boards, so it's obviously a fairly common thing. How do you get them to be more involved? If I push DH at all, then he gets aggravated and says it's nagging. It's his CHILD FFS, why do we have to push them to be a parent and help with decisions??

zzzzzz, I wasn't having a go at you or implying that our lives are hard due to having come on here to discuss it. That is entirely within our control and we subject ourselves to other ideas and opinions largely to the benefit of our children.

It is the way that we can be treated in real life by the professionals as a result of wanting to do ABA, and that to get it (Even when it is cheaper than the LA alternative) is incredibly stressful and often involves a tribunal or two.