this is not really a SN thing, but you will all know the implications and ramifications much better...

[silverfrog]

dh and I aren't getting on.

well, it's me really. he is (apart from me being a snappy cow at times ) happy enough. I am not.

dh works long hours. very long hours. and you all know we have moved and moved again because of dd1's school etc.

when we had children, we agreed that I would be a sahm. and that was fine. except then, of course, dd1 has issues, and life is not exactly as we planned it to be (when is it? but ykwim, hopefully)

thing is, it is my life that got changed in all that. yes, dh's expectations and hopes for dd1 went by the wayside (and got exchanged for a new set), but otherwise his life carries on as normal. mine hasn't, and won't. the girls are at school now, so of course I have time in the day, but that is quite restricted when you take into account the 2 separate schools, pick up/drop off times etc. I can't join any of the PTA/form rep stuff at dd2's school, for eg, because of meeting times - am always an hour late.

I am studying, so this is not so much about something for me. I can exercise during the day now. all that is fine. but I can't for eg, get to tutorials for my degree in the evenings. because dh is at work. babysitters don't work that well, as dd1 ends up with sleep issues, and having come out of 3 years of that recently, I have no desire to go back there.

dh's solution is to throw money at it (which luckily we can afford). again, fine up to a point. but I don't just want to be able to go and do things - I want to be able to do them with someone (that someone used to be dh, but am not so sure these days, after years of not really ever seeing him) - not in a joined at the hip way. but even if I go and do stuff myself, he is not there to chat to when I get back. or he is there, but in body only - doing more bloody work.

he does work long hours, and we have a great life (materially speaking) because of that. he loves his work though - a real "carry him out in a box" type. so while it is work, it is also a passion.

so. things have come to a head, and I am thinking about splitting up. there is no marriage left - all we talk about is the girls, we disagree on most other things, and end up snipping and picking at each other.

BUT if we split up, of course, then I still don't get any time to myself, and the girls will see even less of their dad. if I stay, I get the odd evening off a bit more, and could have more if we can get the babysitting/childcare sorted, but would be staying for the convenience, as I am not into the marriage anymore.

but the thought of eg 12 days (dh works away a lot, so while he would have some evenings with them some weeks, it is not guaranteed) of the girls, on my own, with no break, regularly, and no one to talk to (even if that is just a terse conversation, or platitudes about our days) does not exactly fill me with glee.

dh doesn't think we should split up - he thinks it is still workable. well, he would, wouldn't he? he gets to live his life (albeit with a crabby and chaotic wife), and come home to a (messy and disorganised) house and his children. he points out, quite rightly, that splitting up would not solve what I want - ie him to spend more time (and proper focussed time) with us/the girls. that I would be as stressed, and as snowed under as I am now. my argument is that splitting up and doing it alone would at least mean that I knew I was alone, iyswim? not pretending to be in a partnership where half of us is not pulling their (emotional) weight. which would mean a lot to my sanity.

oh bollocks. I don't know what to do.

I know it is difficult but when I was in a similar position I tried in my head to separate my relationship with my ex and my need for practical support.

In my case, what I worked out was that whilst I wanted support with the dc/home etc, it wasn't actually him I wanted anymore (hence he is now ex )

I also found that whilst being on my own was more work (he did do some childcare/cleaning/cooking etc) the stress of not being a a dead relationship meant that I felt better about everything even though I was doing more.

moondog, I think that is harsh. I don't need a void filling. I would just like the man I married to actually be a partner. I have amillion and one htings I woudl like to do, for me, and am getting on with them when time allows (in and around all the SN stuff, obviously).

if it were up to me, I would say ditch the high maintenance job and the lifestyle, downscale and both of us pitch in and pull weight. he wants the job and the lifestyle.

yes, if we split, I would want regular timetabld - better for everyone I think. but so mechanical.

going to bed earlier won't happen. he does say he will eg get them up at the weekend, but it is hardly relaxing for me to listen to them playing, and not fair on them to be hanging about until 10 or so (dd1 up from just after 6. luckily she is not the havoc wreaking sort...)

believe me we have tried on the childcare front. and will go on trying. she is an utter minx, though, and runs rings around most people (inc her school), and all so charmingly - but it leads to problems eventually. a night out a week is not worth losing the rest of that week's evenings, sanity wise.

book some relate sessions and ask the counsellor to address that you both want very different things from ask. ask the counsellor to help you work out a compromise.

tell dh he has to attend counselling sessions (week days whilst the kids are out) or you feel you have no option left but to go.

it still might not work out, even if he agrees to the counselling, but tbh you might get more questions answered in your own head about what you really want?

i know what you mean about mechanical - it was why i apologised for the 'practicality'. it sounds so cold.

in essence i really meant that if you split, he will have to change his work pattern in any case. does he realise this?

he knows it all too well, madwoman - he has been married before. so ahs been down the regular contact route (and it was not pretty, overall) with his older children.

he won't have anyone there to facilitate his work habits. he'll have to leave in time to collect the girls, get them to bed, and will be responsible for them up at 6 on saturday and sunday, and all points in between. i think it hasn't even crossed his mind, because in his eyes he's fulfilling his part of the bargain by 'providing'. he needs to understand that 'providing' won't be enough if you walk. and it isn't enough now.

he has no idea, does he?

oops, x post.

ah. so cake and eating it then.

gah.

oh silverfrog. if this is a repeat performance, as it were, do you think he is at all capable of the change you need?

because if not, then it's only really you that knows whether what he's offering is enough for you. and it sounds like it isn't.

that's just it.

he doesn't ahve to change, as whatever happens, I am better off if I stay. because that way it isn't just every other weekend, and the odd evening as travel allows. and easier to sort out a nanny etc.

if I go, I get more hassle, less time to myself (overall), and more difficult to sort childcare.

but that still doesn't add up to staying, does it? as I said earlier - all a bit mercenary...

silverfrog

Does your dh want to split up? If he is unwilling to put his family before his career then that must mean that he is not too bothered tbh...

don't think it is a repeat performance. we were, at one point at court over access for his children (forced by his ex withholding contact for no reason). his solicitor was once she actually met his ex - she came back in, laughing, and said "usually, we sit here, hear all about the ex, go and meet them and see exactly the same mistakes being repeated" - she couldn't believe how different we were, iyswim? she reckons mostly it ends up as repeat patterns, and the husband can't even see he is doing it. but I honestly think not.

obviously it is a repeat pattern in that is would be a second divorce, but for different reaosns, and in different circumstances.

but no, I don't htink he is willing/capable of changing enough.

I'm sorry if it seemed harsh.
Just remember that the money can buy you a lot and ease yuor life.
My dh isn't about a lot bot we do have enough £££ to do things we wouldn't do if he was here.Bear that in mind.

:( Sorry to see you are in such a pickle silverfrog.

I dont think I have any practical advice really. Probably sounds clinical but if you KNOW he wont/cant change then I would list the pros and cons of staying and then make a decision on the best option.

I can see me writing similar apart from the not worried financially bit. We are struggling and I feel a one man band at the moment myself.

Silverfrog, you don't need 'me time' do you? You need 'social time'!

You sound lonely. Supported on the practicalities, even the emotional practicalites wrt to your girls, but not so much wrt to your needs as a woman/individual.

My dh is an academic. He works hard for quite rubbish pay but he has loads of flexibility. Because he has taken advantage of this ability to be flexible due to ds' needs, he hasn't been promoted for quite some time.

I do wish we had more money and could buy our way out of many of the problems that we have but I also feel very lucky in DH and the fact that he has absolutely put his family before work. Sorry if that sounds smug. It isn't. Our marriage has been rocky too at times but because he can BE THERE at the rocky times, we do come through it.

If you truly are close to ending your marriage you have more to bargain with. Why not demand one evening a week guaranteed where he will deal with the children whilst you go out to a social club of some kind, dancing, cookery, doesn't matter what provided it is the sort of club that go for drinks afterwards.

You could also consider getting in an au-pair/mother's help that you can 'train up' to your satisfaction, and include babysitting duties in the JD!?

can you book a couple of counselling sessions for yourself? just to talk things over aloud with someone who isn't involved? not sure who you are studying with, but if it isn't OU then most places do have a student counselling service. i used mine for 8 sessions a couple of years ago when i was having a similar hiatus (in the 'i do everything' vein, as well as a huge backlog of well-overdue ptsd from dd2's birth etc) and they were very good. just having the space once a week to sort through my own issues (and bawl, apparently - i'm really not a cryer, but it's all i seemed to do when i rocked up) meant i could look at the rest of the week more objectively?

i also discovered i was a bit of an enabler, in that i pieced together some random facts (mum was v poorly when i was a kid, and i was therefore raised not to upset her - dh got blown up and got a head injury/ couldn't be stressed etc) which had all been exacerbated by dd2's issues and my certainty that i was the only one in control, as it were...

i'm not suggesting that our circs are similar, just that if i hadn't sought out the opportunity to get some counselling, i still wouldn't 'know' a lot of things that dawned on me as a result.

BTW, I think it is important to say that the biggest cause of the rocky patches in our marriage is that I foften eel I am no longer in it by choice but because I am trapped in it, unable to leave.

This sometimes gets in the way of me understanding that I don't want to leave DH.

But taking the choice away makes me feel indebted and vulnerable and dependent. All very disempowering feelings.

the money can buy a lot. but is it fair to buy it all, when I am not "in" the marriage, so to speak?

we had a nanny over the summer. in many ways it was blissful. I got out a ot with my mate, we had a ball. (by 'a lot' I mean every 10 days or so - hardly loads, really! but good going). but it really brought it home to me a bit - what is the point of the marriage? we aren't getting on, we don't spend any time together - we do have some good days out with the girls, and some nice holidays, but day to day life? not great.

and the girls suffered. dd1 was unsettled, and it did lead to a few issues here and there.

but what it didn't lead to was more time with dh - because he was working.

so, I can stay, have a nanny, go to clubs/social stuff. but it would be staying for the lifestyle. and I am not sure I can do that, mentally.

or I can go, have a reduced lifestyle (dh would absolutely front up financially, but obviously splitting an income leads to reductions) and have a harder life too - less social stuff, and no hint of a partner.

hobson's choice.

Well he'd have to have the girls 50/50 in order for you to have a chance at a hint with another partner.

the girls will have suffered because it was all out of routine - the summer holidays, out of school, a different carer, mummy actually leaving the house - a whole myriad of reasons. you know if you leave it will be tricky, but you will set up new routine, with new childcare, and tweak it gently until it works. no doubt it would get harder before it got better, but not impossible.

i do think you need to contemplate starlight's experience though - it does resonate here - the feeling trapped and choiceless actually making the relationship feel worse than it is?

you have a lot of choices - they just aren't easy ones. do you think you have to be the one to make the decision, or do you still fel that somehow he can be persuaded to take part in the choices that have to be made?

on the holidays/ days out, are you both 'in' it? day to day life is often mundane and knackering - but if the holidays etc are good, then maybe it's salvageable if you can persuade dh to relax his work-grip some...

wasn't necessarily meaning I'd be instantly hooked up with someone else

and he wouldn't 'be able' to do 50/50.

He will if you do one week in the South of France and one week in England.

I can understand your frustrations if he is not there when there iyswim.
I can say that my husband devotes himself 100% to family life when we are together.
He won't for example check his email at ALL when home for a week from his job abroad.

Getting to this point has only been possible by major discussion thoguh.
If anything,I am the one who finds it hard to switch off from work now, leading to moans from him.