this is not really a SN thing, but you will all know the implications and ramifications much better...

[silverfrog]

dh and I aren't getting on.

well, it's me really. he is (apart from me being a snappy cow at times ) happy enough. I am not.

dh works long hours. very long hours. and you all know we have moved and moved again because of dd1's school etc.

when we had children, we agreed that I would be a sahm. and that was fine. except then, of course, dd1 has issues, and life is not exactly as we planned it to be (when is it? but ykwim, hopefully)

thing is, it is my life that got changed in all that. yes, dh's expectations and hopes for dd1 went by the wayside (and got exchanged for a new set), but otherwise his life carries on as normal. mine hasn't, and won't. the girls are at school now, so of course I have time in the day, but that is quite restricted when you take into account the 2 separate schools, pick up/drop off times etc. I can't join any of the PTA/form rep stuff at dd2's school, for eg, because of meeting times - am always an hour late.

I am studying, so this is not so much about something for me. I can exercise during the day now. all that is fine. but I can't for eg, get to tutorials for my degree in the evenings. because dh is at work. babysitters don't work that well, as dd1 ends up with sleep issues, and having come out of 3 years of that recently, I have no desire to go back there.

dh's solution is to throw money at it (which luckily we can afford). again, fine up to a point. but I don't just want to be able to go and do things - I want to be able to do them with someone (that someone used to be dh, but am not so sure these days, after years of not really ever seeing him) - not in a joined at the hip way. but even if I go and do stuff myself, he is not there to chat to when I get back. or he is there, but in body only - doing more bloody work.

he does work long hours, and we have a great life (materially speaking) because of that. he loves his work though - a real "carry him out in a box" type. so while it is work, it is also a passion.

so. things have come to a head, and I am thinking about splitting up. there is no marriage left - all we talk about is the girls, we disagree on most other things, and end up snipping and picking at each other.

BUT if we split up, of course, then I still don't get any time to myself, and the girls will see even less of their dad. if I stay, I get the odd evening off a bit more, and could have more if we can get the babysitting/childcare sorted, but would be staying for the convenience, as I am not into the marriage anymore.

but the thought of eg 12 days (dh works away a lot, so while he would have some evenings with them some weeks, it is not guaranteed) of the girls, on my own, with no break, regularly, and no one to talk to (even if that is just a terse conversation, or platitudes about our days) does not exactly fill me with glee.

dh doesn't think we should split up - he thinks it is still workable. well, he would, wouldn't he? he gets to live his life (albeit with a crabby and chaotic wife), and come home to a (messy and disorganised) house and his children. he points out, quite rightly, that splitting up would not solve what I want - ie him to spend more time (and proper focussed time) with us/the girls. that I would be as stressed, and as snowed under as I am now. my argument is that splitting up and doing it alone would at least mean that I knew I was alone, iyswim? not pretending to be in a partnership where half of us is not pulling their (emotional) weight. which would mean a lot to my sanity.

oh bollocks. I don't know what to do.

Don't have anything much to add, but wanted to let you know I'm in a similar boat.

DP is a workaholic. Our live as a couple has suffered for years. Since I had ds, then dd, I have been sahm (very hard for me, I was v senior in career, and found it hard to give up independence). We have not had a partnership in any form for the past 4 years. He holds the financial power, so can dictact everything. I get no emotional support or understanding from him (even less re ds's SN), and we have nothing left in common socially/intellectually. On a day to day level we do not get on, and it has got to the point now where we in fact row v v v badly, increasingly frequently, and he tells me he hates me, doesn't care about my views, feelings etc. There is no love left whatsoever, and sadly very little respect (I certainly think he has none for me).

I am only still here because of the dc. I have asked him to leave, but he refuses. I'm biding my time till our tribunal etc is over and ds is sorted re school. The thought of my life as a single mother of two dc, one of whom has asd, doesn't fill me with joy, but I know I will be happier than being with him simply for the sake of being 'together' for the dc, and having the material wealth etc.

Sounds fantastic hey?!

Anyway. The difference is that it sounds like there is some feeling left between you two? If so, I would definitely try counselling before anything else.

Do you love him?

How does he react when you talk to him about how his commitment to work has affected your family/relationship?

That sounded very gloomy and bleak didn't it, sorry. Didn't intend to depress you - I painted a picture of the darkest parts of our relationship.

All I meant to show was that if there is some feeling left between you and dh, it is worth pursuing every angle before ending it.

Oh yes. Go to an early morning Saturday morning exercise class.

Sorry to hear you too baily I wonder though is the work thing an avoidance strategy, to not have to deal with the SN issues, or have to involve themselves fully in the reality?

I mean, even when I was working and absolutely LOVED my job, if someone gave me the choice of continuing it or spending more time with DH on full pay I would have chosen the latter. I doubt I would have been lazy though, I would have worked just as hard at planning and doing wonderful things together, even volunteering together possibly.

Sounds to me as if you need to book a week's solo activity holiday away somewhere. Make it in a months time, tell him that as their Dad HE will be soley responsible for their care and that he needs to make arrangements re work/childcare to cover this. DO not help him make the arrangements in anyway shape or form bar giving him the contact details of all the girls professionals and any meeting details concerning them that week.

Go enjoy yourself, and see if his attitude has improved any when you get back ; ) I reckon a week without you, dealing with what you do everyday will break through his mindblindness and enable him to see your perspective. At the moment if he's faithful he probably thinks he's a great husband as so many men having being a provider drummed into them as a primary role.

I do understand this will disrupt your kids no end, lead to rows with your hubby etc but sometimes think people have to be SHOWN the error of their ways. Talking just doesn't reach everyone. I also think a bit of short term upset is worth it if it means you preserve your children's lifestyle in the longterm and what sounds as if it was and could be again a solid, loving marriage. I think a good marriage is worth fighting for.

Not all counselling is going to be a bad experience, it will be different for different people. Please give yourselves both a chance to just work out exactly what it is you want to happen here because you might just surprise yourselves and realise that you have more in common than you currently realise. Do you have anything to lose by trying this route at least? It could go either way with the decisions you make in the end but at least you will have tried and will hopefully feel better about the final result, whatever way that may be.

No answers, silverfrog, but plenty of ((hugs))) and

bochead's idea is pretty much the way i've always dealt with it - i used to work at least one weekend a month and would disappear on a friday afternoon and leave him to it until sunday night - he'd pick me up from the airport with the kids in the car. our most stressful times (for me...) have been when i haven't been working, and of course that's when you feel most dependent... and trapped.

i'm not working at the mo, and i can feel the difference in my outlook. i'm very introspective. and of course because we've moved there's lots of change/ issues to deal with with the kids etc.

hope you're ok this evening silverfrog. sometimes things just come to a head and demand your attention, but it can be overwhelming.

thanks everyone. I am still here, and am reading and thinking.

we have my step daughter visiting for the weekend, so won't be around much.

dh managed to get up (unprompted) at 7.45 this morning . clearly it is possible then. but only when I tell him I can continue no longer. humph.

silverfrog, nothing useful to add but sending you hugs and

oh god, don't tempt me

but thank you, everyone. god I don't know what I'd do without you lot.

'I mean, even when I was working and absolutely LOVED my job, if someone gave me the choice of continuing it or spending more time with DH on full pay I would have chosen the latter. I doubt I would have been lazy though, I would have worked just as hard at planning and doing wonderful things together, even volunteering together possibly.'

Do yuo really think so Star?
I have a feeling leisure time is precious and special by definition because it is in short supply. Thinking behaviourally (how else would I?) it is reinforcing because of this. It would be less reinforcing were there more of it.

I think I have always been more careful with my time when it is in short supply.

I think going off to do something 1st thing on a w/end is a good one.
Or, committing to an activity together-lunch or a family outing. After that, agreeing to leave the other alone. What he might find is that being with you all is so pleasant he wants more of it.

I've done this with my kids actually, as being alone with them, i need to spend a large part of my w/end catching up on domestic chores and getting a bit of time to myself. So what I do is commit to a half day of a speciffied activity and then for the rest of the day, I leave them to their own devices more or less.

Yes Moondog, because I see leisure time mostly AS work time. Volunteering is work. It has value. Education is work. School Governing is work. Going to the beach is work when you have children. The difference is that you can share this and you have complete control over which work you perue and are beholden to nobody. I suppose it depends on your attitude and whether you use your 'leisure time' productively. I get so cross with people who say they have to work or else they would be bored. Only if your imagination is in short supply. Moondog, if you didn't have your job that you love, I just can't see you sitting on your arse watching daytime tv.

I think there's nothing lonelier or more depressing than someone continually showing you how little they think of you by always putting work ahead of what you and your DC need...

It's nearly caused me and DP to split several times.

With DP I know that's not what he thinks he's doing, but when it comes down to it it that's how it makes me feel - and yep I've got to the point a few times where I've gone, hang on, I'd be better off alone, because at least then I know I'm on my own and I don't have to be constantly reminded of how I'm not important.

With me it's got stuff all to do with the day to day coping - because I do that all myself anyway, it's that when I really need some support, he'll always choose work and it just makes everything so hard to cope with.

well, a so-so weekend.

he is clearly trying hard, but we have been here before, and while things tend to improve for a while, we always end up back here...

he has been getting up earlier. (8am today). still not really early enough, but showing willing.

yesterday was ok-ish. today less so. but it all boils down to - he is unable to do anything that is 'for the family', and mostly unable to do a lot of thigns that are for him too. and so they all fall to me, on top of doing all the SN stuff, all the school stuff, all the house stuff (mostly it is htis that gives, and I think this is top of his gripes), etc.

eg: last night/this morning I was occupied doing somehting for dsd (which is actually for dh, as his birthday present. although dsd has not had much input but I am trying not to be snappy about that, as she has mild LDs and so needs a lot of help (although is not averse to taking the piss, quite frankly)). so, I am busy while he has a nice relaxed morning with a long shower, lazy breakfast etc. he then sees what I am doing (photographic work on the computer) and casually chats about a link for uploading video he has been sent (he needs to put together some vide of him and his dc - my step children - for a project thingy for one of them), and sends on the link - assumption being I will be the one doing the editing and sorting and uploading. admittedly I am the one who does all the camera stuff (not very well) usually, but hang on a bloody minute. this is nothing to do with me, not for me, not beneficial to me (whereas it is for him, supposedly by him etc), and yet apparently I will be the one cursing the computer at 4am when it doesn't upload etc. I don't think so.

because I was tied up doing stuff for dsd, we ended up running late. not because I made us late, but because he didn't do a single thing about packing up the stuff we needed for the day (we were off out for the day). we had talked about timings last night, he knew when we needed to leave the house. he also knew we needed sunhats, the girls' drinks, the radar key - standard bag packing, tbh. but nothing done. until I did it 5 minutes after we were supposed to leave...

get back form our day out (which was nice enough) and not a single move made on any housestuff - not homework for either dd, not dinner, not home/school books, nothing. he has done bedtime each night, but that is quite an enjoyable thing in our house - the girls are pretty good at the routine, and it is all about reading stories.

so, even on so-called best behaviour he is not really stepping up. we are sniping at each other less, though. probably mostly down to me (as in I was the one being sarky and 'orrible most of the time, and am making a supreme effort to not be). he will probably see htis a me being happier

counselling-wise, he wants to go, I am less convinced. mostly because I think he thinks it will sort it all out, whereas I would be going more with a view to ensuring we remain as amicable as possible during separation. and I don't really see how a couple going into counselling with such opposing views of it will ever work out their differences...

ok, ramble over, sorry for going on

Well that's not on.
Curious how he wants to go to counselling though.

I think for most families it boild down to women being much happier and altogether more reinforcing whewn men pull their weight around the home. Why do so many blokes not get this?

From their perspective, they might feel (wild guess here) that if they weren';t nagged and hassled and told they weren't good enough, they would happily do more.

yuo see, that just it. my main problem is that he doesn't do any of the 'family' stuff.

I get that in the week he works hard. and I can (kind of) accept the long hours. but I do not accept that all the daily-grind family stuff falls to me at the weekends too. I am currently studiously ignoring the piles of plates etc from dinner. I expect I will load the dishwasher just before I go to bed (on the basis it is better to do it then than first thign in the morning). I cooked, he can clear up (or dsd - she is an adult too). but he is busy, so I expect it won't get done. yes, I could ask him. but he is not 3. he knows it needs doing.

and therein lies the balance between nagging (which I end up feeling I do a lot of) and initiative on his part (singularly lacking wrt any house/child related task) - if I don't mention it (ie nag, as my tone tends to deteriorate after about the 3rd reminder ) it doesn't get done. and he is not a child. I am not his mother.

oh, I think the counselling thing stems from the fact that he wants to do anything to avoid another divorce. which is not the same as actually wanting to be married.

and, of course, if we go to counselling, it puts off splitting up for a while, so might just be a delaying tactic of the 'there there' pat on head and wait for me to calm down sort...

Its so bloody draining isnt it?

Dh and I had a massive argument on friday (well, I shouted and told him I was fed up and he just sat there)

He is nearly 40, a graduate and reasonably intelligent and yet I have to remind him/tell him every little thing...am starting to feel really resentful about it.

I am a sahm and therefore the cooking, cleaning, shopping etc falls to me...fine. I do however, expect help with the dc at the weekends and maybe an offer to wash the dishes on a sunday???

Last night for example.....asked him if he had changed ds2's nappy before bed. No answer so I (stupidly) assumed he had. Cue a couple of hours later and ds2 leaked all over himself and the bed sheets and woke up as his nappy hadnt been changed prior to bed. So, have spent today washing his bedding which was clean on. Lovely.

I know it doesnt sound like much, but its just one of many things he doesnt do/forgets to do every day. Its not rocket science, is it? That a child needs a clean nappy at bedtime????

I cannot ask him to do something and then relax and think "well, thats that taken care of" Everything is so hard....every request I make of him is treated as either unimportant or irrelevant (or thats how it feels to me)

No advice, but lots of sympathy x

This is like someone seeing into our house as well. I swear the visual charts I'm trying to organise for DS2's bedtime is for DH as well - how can he do the bedtime every night, but yet DS2 is 5yo and I STILL have to remind DH to give him his meds (asthma) and brush his teeth, make sure his curtains are closed.... is it REALLY that complicated?? I am at maximum stress level simply because I have to remember EVERYTHING... and remind him of everything (snapped at if I don't, and snapped at if I do for nagging)... it's getting unbearable. And I know that DS2 would not cope well at all if we split. It's just all so wearing.... I'm not sure what I want anymore...