Alternative opinions of ABA?

[kpjigsaw]

We are strongly considering starting an ABA programme for our son, and it's been very useful looking at some of the posts on here about it. It seems that a lot if parents have found it to be very valuable which is why we are considering it. I was just wondering whether anyone has had a bad experience of it - I don't mean an individual poor tutor or whatever, I mean does anyone feel it didn't work or was even detrimental? Just trying to get a balanced view as it seems all the negative opinions are held by the 'professionals' rather than people who have actually experienced it.

Any thoughts?

Blimey, I must be thicker-skinned than I'd realised. The thread seemed to me to be a robust exchange of views, with each poster giving very strongly expressed reasons why they felt their own parenting choices were sensible generally, and in particular for their own child.

Now [evil grin] a tricky question for the formal-ABA users... Without using instinct, knowing the child or professional experience, how do you choose the right targets and select the right ways to measure baseline and progress? After all, government targets may not have improved the NHS or school system much.

And [another evil grin] a similar question for the non-ABA-ers... How do you know if a child's progress is really due to the actions being taken, and how can that be demonstrated to an outsider? After all, lots of people swear by crystal therapy (apologies to any crystal believers).

I'm not being abusive justa, simply repeating what you said which I found tactless. And niminy, behaviourism just isn't like that any more, you are out of date in your understanding.

What I don't understand is why those of you who've never used ABA feel so STRONGLY against it? And why post so rabidly on here?

I don't go in for GFCF diets, but nor do I feel compelled to go on those threads and rubbish what all those mums are doing . For two reasons - a) that I don't know enough about gfcf diets, and b) because having an autistic child is hard enough, and I would I would never try and make things harder for other autistic mums.

Mariamagdalena, with a boy like mine the targets were fairly obvious - learn to talk, learn to stop punching own face, learn to stop banging own head on concrete, learn to gesture, learn to form words, learn to use cutlery, learn to dry self with towel, learn to read, learn to write, learn to use a toilet, learn not to screech 18 hours a day, learn not to bounce on every surface all day. The measures of progress were similarly quite obvious - eg talking, not bashing self round face all day, not headbutting any person within 5 ft. At school, he did the P scales, which cover loads of good stuff. In the TEACCH system, targets are flabby and unmeasured. I know this because I paid (wasted) good money on a TEACCH environment for years.

Observe a few million children, document what skills they show, when and in what order and then test your own child against these skills. Hypothesise about where to start and move forward or backwards depending. Ideally though you'd just start at the beginning and just move through all the early stages quickly. This is to ensure that no essential foundation skills are missing.

There will probably be many skills gaps, so then you apply the context to priority. Which ones are important to the family? Which ones are about safety? Which ones are going to give extreme problems in school if not mastered etc etc.

I'm glad it has helped lenin

it can be a huge leap, and it does take some getting your head around. I think this is one of the issues that was being parodied earlier in the thread (ie a poster would say "but my dc doesn't respond to rewards", and an ABAer would pop up and say "but honestly, there will be something that motivates, and it might not be what you expect it to be"), which I feel was harsh.

there are a lot of behavioural parenting techniques, such as star charts and naughty steps (to name the obvious ones) that are not actually used, in standard parenting ways, correctly. I don't thin it is patronising, or browbeating, to check that a poster understands the behavioural management was to use these tools, rather than the standard SuperNanny way, but obviously other posters think differentyl on that.

it sounds as though your ds (and you!) is doign really well - hope you and DP are feeling less frazzled?

well, tbh justa (and I spend far too much time reading threads in SN, as am on the computer a lot of the day anyway doing other stuff) I cannot think of another example where your parody would even begin to fit.

clearly I was wrong - hey, I can live with that. as I said, I can think of no other example where ABA has been "over explained" in the way you describe.

I can be happy anyway

"I am being painted as viciously anti-ABA and insensitive to the feelings of those who use it intensively."

I think this is an over=exaggeration to say the least.

"This is why I feel that I am being told I am insensitive and rabid. Actually, i think I'm neither."

If people have been hurt by your comments then by definition they were insensitive. And it doesn't seem like it was just me.

oh, bollocks to it.

justa - way to go to shut down any discussion.

I thoroughly disagree with your summary of the thread thus far, but of course, according to your latest post, I am not meant to.

of course I feel for you. receiving a dx is never easy. do take some time away to absorb the news, and get your head around things. even when expected, ti can really take the wind out of your sails (and I speak as someone who all but directed our dx process for 2 years, and I was still knocked for 6 when the words were said)

but you cannot jsut expect us all to stop talking about htis.

it has been a thread that has run for a whle, and it is not just you who has been affected.

YY silver

Right everyone. I really don't think we hate one another. And I am horrified that people are getting so upset. I think justa explained herself very well in all her posts and I really don't see any controversy or intent to make anyone feel bad in anything she said. Nor, in fairness, do I see much malice in the posts which she, and some others, have felt attacked by.

Some of the bad feeling here seems to be a direct transference of the unpleasant real life experiences of lots of posters on the SN board. Not only are some SN parents (myself included) a bit oversensitive because of the grief of a recent diagnosis. Many of us have also been very badly upset by unsympathetic friends, professionals, family members and fellow parents whose children have developed as the books say.

So my suggestion is that we a) try to give each other the benefit of the doubt, b) only take offence when it was intended and c) accept that what unites us is much grater than what doesn't. I'm off to attempt to start a reconciliation thread.

that would have been more impressive if i'd said greater. [Offers serving of GFCF-free grated cheese]

I have expanded my new PubMed Applied Behaviour Analysis (ABA) (now includes 44 research articles) to include articles from the Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis which cover a wide range of issues including autism.
I also have a PubMed Autism collection and a PubMed Autism and Regression collection both of which may provide some interesting information regarding this thread

maria,

I'm with you on that. I have seen one slight misinterpretation and mark overstep, being counteracted by another and I can see people have been upset, but perhaps it is just my now heart of stone, I can't see quite why people are as upset as they are.

I'm not scared of much any more, but I'm a bit scared to post here now because I just don't know what to say (another first perhaps). There is NOT ONE poster here who I don't have the utmost respect for and have even considered as a 'friend' even if very loosely defined and I am counting those who don't share my enthusiasm for ABA - and I'm upset that there appears to be a big hurtful rift that I don't think is even that real.

I think whoever said it was like breast and bottlefeeding was right (although I'm far too scared to ask which represents the ABA and which the non) it is something that affects parents and their justification for their choices very deeply (apparently) and it is a bit of a surprise to me.

I can see why it must be emotional and hard to hear how wonderful ABA is when ABA is inaccessible to you. But ABA is inaccessible to me too. At least through the school system and through finances now. There are probably schools out there that do a good job without ABA. My ds's school will not, they will fail him. I can do nothing about it.

I do see what you mean, Star.

But really - personal choices are jsut that, and I am with you all the way re: not knowing why people get so upset (aside from the obvious couple of comments that have been a bit below the belt)

I need to look into retained relflexes stuff and behavioural optomtry for dd1. I ahve been saying this for about a year now, along with the intention to get back to see her nutritionist (and if that sentence doesn't prove exactly how I am not a ABA-or-nothing parent, I don't know what will ) - but do I get upset when others are discussing these therapies?

HAve I huffed about feelign guilty (NO IMPLICATIONS MEANT THERE JUST TALKING ABOUT MY SITUATION) because I havent made the time/don't have the money/can't manage to fit it in/cant find a practitioner close enough?

I don't understand why anyone would - every family is individual. we all do what we think is right for our families, at this point in time.

no-one has the right to dictate what is or isn't discussed, adn in fact I welcome proper open discussion about all these (and more) therapies. I have discussed these (and other) non-scientific therapies with moondog before (sorry to namecheck - you do seem to be the one who pops up and asks for the hard evidence ) - I did not feel "got at" - even in the dark old days before she mellowed, when she could post very abruptly indeed . questions are always good. shutting down discussion and point scoring never so.

I don't think justa wants to shut down the discussion, but I wouldn't blame her for needing to take a rest from it. Or anyone else who's a bit vulnerable at the moment. Am feeling hard as nails myself tonight so am up for a friendly academic wrestle...

That maria is a Hoe!