Alternative opinions of ABA?

[kpjigsaw]

We are strongly considering starting an ABA programme for our son, and it's been very useful looking at some of the posts on here about it. It seems that a lot if parents have found it to be very valuable which is why we are considering it. I was just wondering whether anyone has had a bad experience of it - I don't mean an individual poor tutor or whatever, I mean does anyone feel it didn't work or was even detrimental? Just trying to get a balanced view as it seems all the negative opinions are held by the 'professionals' rather than people who have actually experienced it.

Any thoughts?

Because of the way that you measure things constantly, and the inaccessibility of ABA, actually the evidence is clearer to ABAers I think.

I mean ds progresses fast on his ABA programme, then a tutor leaves and we don't do so many hours and he progresses slower, then we recruit and train again then he flies, then we stop due to financial pressures and he maintains but doesn't progress.

This is all measured. Most parents spend a while getting a baseline measurement before they begin the ABA programme, of whatever it was they were doing before too.

I think son-rise can work with an extremely intuitive, naturally analytical tutor too. The problem is you can't evidence it, and you can't ensure always that you are undertaking the most efficient path to progress.

In response to one of Justa's comments about ABA not being appropriate because it would take him out of a setting where he is progressing. ABA really should not do that. It should start with observing what he is doing where he is, and start there, checking systematically what is working and what could work better. Probably the programme would mean he stayed there if this turned out to be the fastest path to him progressing. Unfortunately many children have to be pulled out of their setting because of the absolute refusal of the setting to engage with any ABA ideas or influence (although I would suspect a 'behavioural nurse' would be pretty ABA-like in her approach).

Sure, but are they scared to post, or do they not exist?

I know the horse boy man says he tried behavioural approaches for his son which didn't work, but he owned stables and went on to charge a bomb for 'horse therapy' so I'm a bit suspicious of his motivations.

"I haven't chosen to undergo an ABA programme with my son. Though I find the ideas interesting, for me it didn't seem the right option for us [...]
Very interesting question, but tellingly only ABA enthusiasts and those who chose not to have responded."

I'm quoting part of zzzzz's post because I agreed with it very strongly.

We do not do ABA either. It just isn't right for us, and in general I am lukewarm about behaviourism philosophically speaking. In particular I spend more time thinking about the emotional dynamics and relationships in our family -- in my view behaviourism tends to see people as little more than bundles of behaviours.

But I have found some of the ideas interesting and we probably do somethings that are distant cousins of ABA approaches.

DS1 is making good progress, I don't know whether he would be making better progress with ABA. But if I was doing it there would be no way of knowing whether he would, in fact, have made the same progress without it. (I have heard everything that has been said about the evidence basis for ABA but even so in a particular case it is not possible to say objectively whether it has actually made that much of a difference.)

However. There are some other things I would say. I actually stopped posting on this board because it was so dominated by pro-ABA voices. I just didn't feel there was any space for alternative views. I also began to feel that there was a slight implication that if you are a good, committed, really caring parent you will do ABA because why would you choose to do anything less than the absolute best for your child?

As I say, ABA is not right for our family: we have to balance the needs of everyone, and the kind of data collection and tracking etc just isn't our style. But I hope we are as committed and caring as anyone, whether we adopt a particular kind of intervention or not.

'But if the horse thing worked for you SO well wouldn't that be exactly what you'd do?'

LOL, possibly. But I think it mostly worked well for his pockets than his child.

'If you are not assessing him in between tutors and then start on a new tutor how do you know when the progress is actually made?'

Well, I don't know about others, but we have regular independent EP assessments, whether he is on the programme or not.

We have had enough stop start periods to have a pretty accurate picture.

However, you do make very good points about the number of variables at work and it would certainly be impossible to control for all of them. I suppose you just try to get a 'best fit' by careful analysis. Even good ABA is not without human error or completely objective or even without a level of interpretation or experience. You'd try though, to keep it as objective as you can with outsiders reviewing the practise and believed benefits.

'For that matter for all we know his development might benefit from pauses'

Yes, this is possible, but is is also possible to track this to get a pattern/picture.

No, course not. Just to clarify though, they have tried ABA-type programmes and found it to be of no benefit or, worse harmful?

Just clarifying the point. I don't expect you to reveal the details.

justa, are you saying you know some SN posters who have tried ABA but had negative results, but are too scared to say so?

"(I have heard everything that has been said about the evidence basis for ABA but even so in a particular case it is not possible to say objectively whether it has actually made that much of a difference.)"

Just wanted to clarify my own post. What you can't do with any one child is have a control group. You can never measure the progress they make on ABA against what they make doing nothing over the same period. You can measure what progress they are making and measure that against developmental norms, but you can't know whether they would have made that progress anyway.

I guess in many ways I feel that ABA is a version of the hyper-parenting you see so much of elsewhere on mnet and in middle class real life too.

'There are some other things I would say. I actually stopped posting on this board because it was so dominated by pro-ABA voices'

It hasn't always been like that. Talkboards are organic and they change and fluctuate.

There used to be a few people that had very successful outcomes with other methods who have left the board due to the 'recovery' of their children. Some who have fought strongly against diagnosis even.

I'm truly sorry you have felt like you can't post. I have to hold my hands up and admit that my main topic of conversation here has become ABA because before it was LA's and tribunals and statutory assessment and Team Around the child and benefits etc. but someone started to spy on me and 'report' me to social services and DLA for poting what I was and the effect was harmful to my ds and our family. ABA is dry enough to be safe.

All I can say is please do post, because there are loads of people who aren't doing ABA who would benefit from your experiences and approaches, and even some ABAers. I just got funding for a term of music therapy for ds. There is no data anywhere that would suggest he would benefit but I just 'know' he will and that is fair enough.

'I guess in many ways I feel that ABA is a version of the hyper-parenting you see so much of elsewhere on mnet and in middle class real life too.'

Actually, that struck a chord with me. I think I might agree even. I suppose the difference is that I believe my ds NEEDS hyper-parenting. Not so much my poor neglected nt dd though.

I'm not scary. I'm a frightened, bitter, thinking parent who is constantly refining her approach to give her ds the best possible chance of NOT being one of those high number of young people to attempt suicide before 25.

As, I would expect, are most people here!

I htink that sometimes, people see ABA, and note the "behavioural analysis" bit above all else. and that then, it can be written off as "just" ebing about behaviours, or about hyper-parenting.

but of course, it is about Behavioural analysis - working out why your child is exhibiting these behaviours - do they stem form anxiety, frustration, sensory issues - and then working out how to help the child through those issues.

peopel see ABA as one "thing", when it isn't at all. it is the very opposite. it is totally child centred, as in looking at what any one particular child needs at that particular time, and hw best to deliver it - best for the child, the setting, the family etc. it prioritises which need is greatest, again form the perspective of the child, the setting and the family.

Star had it right when she said of my ealrier post re: hypothetical ABA for dd2. it would look at what she needed, and deliver that - whether in her current school, a different school, at home - whatever owuld be best for her.

I don't understand how anyone can be anti ABA on that basis. I can understand why people might be opposed ot their house being taken over, or their child being taught robotically. but I have not ever come across that (well, my house was taken over, but only in as much as it would have been had I had a nanny playing with my 2 girls, iyswim)

as I said earlier, I have tried many non-evidenced based therapies myself with dd1. one of the best I have ever done is the gf/cf diet. not yet scientifically ratified, but emains the single best thing we ever did for dd1 - without it, her ABA wold have been a lot more work, just ot "break through" to her. we have also done SI, one of the "wooliest" things aroudn, and dd1 gained great benefit from it.

I don't think I have ever been particularly strident about ABA. I do wish it were not pigeonholed as an "ASD" therapy though - imo it is not, it is just good practice for all children.

How do you/someone else work out why your child is exhibiting these behaviours?