Paed says 'nothing i can do' for a willfull ds1(6.8)

[Oblomov]

I had the consultation with Paed yesterday. He is the specialist for ADHD, I had infact seen his book and read about it in he papers. So I knew I was in good hands.
Dh did not attend. what a mistake that was. He was going to, then when I re-read the letter it said about initially weighing and height ds, then 15 mins with dr. so I said to dh maybe not come to this one, seems basic. come to the next.
But there was no next.
we went in and ds1 sat there reading a book. with ds2 in the buggy. I thought this was totally inappropriate to discuss ds1, whilst he was in the room.
I could not speak freely and the school SENCO lady had prviously advised me of not to speak about him in front of him.

Perhaps I should give some history.
Ds1 is 'difficult'. School have no concerns.
He is not different to any of his classmates. They too answer back, interrupt, stroppy etc.
The only difference is that for them it is occasional, just a phase. for ds1 it is constant. he just whinges and wines. answers back. he is so defiant. stubborn.
all punishments and disciplines are non effective. Nintendo ds taken away, no tv, early bed. we have sat down and had meetings. talked about his behaviour.
we ignore. praise the good, ignore the bad. walk away. tried spending more time with him, thinking it was attention seeking. maybe sibling jealousy, because ds2 arrived a month after he started school. but to be honest he has always been quite difficult. just got worse in the last 2 yrs since school started.
the trouble is that none of these punishments seem to bother him. presumably they must. he must just be a very good actor.
of if they bother him; it doesn't seem to make his basic behaviour any better. it seems to be ineffective.
since he started school it has got worse. I mean I?ve always thought that I was loving, firm but fair. I have applied the basic parenting principals since birth.
and the glitch in my armour is that he is very powerful. he knows he makes my life unbearable. his bahaviour i can't stand. he knows this because no matter how much i try and hide it, it is the truth. I am the parent. how did it come to this?
I am happy at work, love dh. love ds2.
His behaviour is not awful. Just irritating and wearing.
He went to stay with my mum for 2 days just before term started. She devoted time to him entirely. And he was still whinging and answering back. She said she was shocked.
I got a bit cross. Thinking, god you only had it for 2 days. He wears me down and down and down, over 5/8 days. Then I snap because I can?t take it anymore.
I just hate him. truly he has worn me down. like living with an abuser I assume. when he does do nice things they just don't wash with me anymore. dh was horrified when I explained that I wish he could be adopted. he said oh you don't mean that. but truly I do. I told my mum the same 6 months ago. I have thought about it for many months. Tried to deny that I don?t love him anymore. Then admitted it. Worked on trying to rebuild my love for him, but so far that has not happened. I just hate him more. Everyone seems appalled by this. By why should you have any undying love for your child? If it my dh treating me like shit, you would all be jumping to tell me to leave him.
I have tried and tried and tried with ds1. I have lots of other pleasures in my life. He is the only real problem.

THIS IS NOT A PHASE.

SO I go to parenting classes. Useless. teach me nothing i didn't already know, wasn't already implementing. I speak to senco woman at school. She is lovely. she has no concerns. Tells me that only a child psychologist can help me. so i go to gp, then get paed appointment.
So off I go to paed appointment yesterday. He says he is wilful. Bright. Recommends 2 books:
The strong willed child by James Dobson
1-2-3 Magic, by Dr Phelan.
Says he will see me in 12 months.
I tell him that I need more. that i need help. That I am disappointed.
I have asked him twice to see a child psychologist as school senco and my mum (who is a sw) had advised me that I need.
I feel dismissed.
But I am desperate. I have gone past breaking point. Now I am numb and desperate.
I feel let down by the paed.
My mum recons that I do really need help. Help to cope. And that my marriage is in jeopardy over the strain.
I agree.

I will read the book, but am I too conceited to assume that they won?t tell me anythitngn I don?t already know ?
Hoping minxofmancunia will come and post. I know that she too comes from a totally loving family, has done all the paretning rules correctly, and yet has a very defiant and willfull dd.

What do I do ?

i don't know what to do but i have thought so many many times that if a partner did what D2 does I would be 'allowed' to leave. I've also thought so many times that sometimes I hate her. I hate her behaviour and I hate myself for thining that. I have seriously considered just walking away and never coming back and I have seriously considered leaving DD2 somewhere like A&E where she could be taken away from me.

but then she has a good day or 2 and i feel guilty for thinking those things.

she's waiting for ASD assessment and if and when is decided there is something she can be labelled with - then help will be offered to her and hopefully me.

gosh, bumping for you

Goodness Oblomov
You have probably already tried but do you spend one on one time with him?
Sory, I don't know what to advise but I hope you find your love for him again and manage to rebuild your relationship

If you are getting no where with getting help for him, have you tried getting help for yourself? Counselling just for you, someone for you to talk to, without being judged?

Sounds grim but you will have to accept after specialist advice that he is just strong willed.
He has obviously picked up on your frustration and your dislike for him. It seems you are focussing on him rather than the behaviour. At the moment he can't win because you deem it as it is all his fault.

Read the books that have been suggested to you. I hope things improve for you all.

ob You probably won't get a dx for ADHD unless the school also have problems educating him ... you usually need the issues to be in two environments ie: home and school. Who was the doctoe out of interest?

'doctor' even

Thanks for your posts. I have ordered the books. I know you are all trying ot help, but I don't feel any better.
Sympathy to Gallumbits. guess i should take comfort in the fact i am not alone.
I am work. Tryinh to hide my tears. I am so strong. But there is only so much I can take, you know.

have you asked the gp for a referral to camhs? possibly you can access a psychlogist through that route rather than paed~?

Madame Sin, book
I don't want an ADHD diagnosis. He's not ADHD. he's good as gold at school. thus its elective. thats the problem.

gallum, gp said she couldn't refer to cahms becasue there was no mental health issue. cahms would throw out her referal. ibut she could refer to paed. agreed. told senco woman this. she agreed, that paed was better than cahms. she said this was fab , as was more thna she could have hoped for, because he was fab.

D is fine when she is at school (if she goes). I think the structure and routines actually help her to manage there.

D was refered TO CAMHS WHO WERE DOING CBT TO HELP WITH HER SCHOOL REFUSal but se was not intereted and ehaed there as if nothing was a problem.

it was only when i wrote down all the problems she has and asked for a meeting with the psychologist without DD being there that they realised the extent of her. since then she has been referred on or AS assessment but has't seen the camh people again asshe just wasn't engging at al.

maryz, you are right. i hoped for some sort of daignosis, just so that i could get help.
he does have fish oil tablets.
he goes to after school club on the 2 days i work.

work is my only respite. without it i would crumble.

ds2 is no trouble. 2. trantrums. something i never had with ds1. but i find him easy to parent. ds1 is just a nightmare.

thank you for your kind words maryz.

are you sure that theres nothing wrong with my son. it is just wilfull ? how do you know thta if we ignore at 6, he too won't have aspergers at 8 ?

sorry - my typing s shite.

so if the paed can't help but you still think there is something 'not normal' about his behaviour maybe the gp would now refer to cahms?

I have to dash, as off out to take dd2 to pre-school (first day!)

BUT

I sympahtise, Ir eally do.

dd1 is ASD (I know your ds isn't - just background info), and she picks and picks and picks. pushes boundaries, has to be in constant motion/whinge/complaint/touching me or leaning against me.

On a good day I liken it to a cat's behaviou7r - you know how they always know which person to make a beeluine for - the one who hates cats? well, dd1 just knows how to wind me up. what tone of voice to use. what to touch/fiddle with/how far to push something before I *will intervene (despite trying my hardest to ignore in a "this too shall pass" way)

Have you tried any behavioural interventions?

referral to camhs?

we use ABA with dd1 - a system of behavioural management.

if you try to read up on it, you will get a lot of info about severe ASD (which dd1 is), ut it can and does work for anyone.

maybe try havign a talk to a provider, and see whether they think they can help?

its alright gallum, so is mine !!
i will go back to paed, once i have read books and tell him i am not happy.
i have phoned gp for appointment. i will ask for counselling.

Maybe you are looking for faults and help with the wrong person? Maybe the problem is you, and not your child?

I dont mean to sound unsympathetic, but for a child to grow up with a parent who hates him and dont want him, it must be wearing for him too?

Would definitely echo what Maryz suggests and choose your battles. Have ds 15 with ASD and who had extreme challenging behaviour for a long time (although we have sorted the most part now)
Also praise any tiny positive however silly it seems. I ended up praising him throwing something at the wall instead of my head because really that was the most positive thing he did
Can you give him a responsibility as well so as to boost his self esteem, just something small that is praised to the hilt.
maybe if you can work out why school is so successful at managing his behaviour you could implement similar strategies at home. Does he like the routines? Is he always occupied? Are the rewards clear and worth having to him? Maybe the SENCO could give you ideas.

Thanks silverfrog, i might look into the proceedures that adhd courses suggest.

QS. Thanks for that. You think I'm proud ? not sadddened of what I have been forced to admit ? Denied, but had to accept. You think I don't know thats not normal, or right. Have you been worn down and down and down by somone so that your love eventually diminishes ?

shall we ask some of the abused woman in 'relationships' how these thing happen ?

and yes he's only a child. immature. but he's also very savvy and bright. and we have talked to him about his behaviour. he's fed up of talking about it he told me so. "not more talking". I'm fed up too.

This may end up sounding unsupportive but feel i should post. Your situation sounds very much like the cycle my mother is locked into with my dbro (now 15)in terms of his behaviour and your response. Over the years it has become apparent that my mother is as much part of the problem as dbro and from your posts it sounds as if things are going that way for you and your son. Please consider getting some help for you and your stress etc. It's easy to think "if only he behaved i'd be fine" but that's rarely true, especially years in.

My dbro is a bugger in many ways, and amazingly hard work but he is a kind, funny boy who will be fine. My mother cannot see this at all and now he is 15 he has pretty much moved in with a friend's family and they have barely any relationship. She doesn't see that her years of negativity and blaming him have contributed to the situation and sees herself as the victim of his behaviour. She has my younger sister as well, who is held up as the example of how a child should be....