Paed says 'nothing i can do' for a willfull ds1(6.8)

[Oblomov]

I had the consultation with Paed yesterday. He is the specialist for ADHD, I had infact seen his book and read about it in he papers. So I knew I was in good hands.
Dh did not attend. what a mistake that was. He was going to, then when I re-read the letter it said about initially weighing and height ds, then 15 mins with dr. so I said to dh maybe not come to this one, seems basic. come to the next.
But there was no next.
we went in and ds1 sat there reading a book. with ds2 in the buggy. I thought this was totally inappropriate to discuss ds1, whilst he was in the room.
I could not speak freely and the school SENCO lady had prviously advised me of not to speak about him in front of him.

Perhaps I should give some history.
Ds1 is 'difficult'. School have no concerns.
He is not different to any of his classmates. They too answer back, interrupt, stroppy etc.
The only difference is that for them it is occasional, just a phase. for ds1 it is constant. he just whinges and wines. answers back. he is so defiant. stubborn.
all punishments and disciplines are non effective. Nintendo ds taken away, no tv, early bed. we have sat down and had meetings. talked about his behaviour.
we ignore. praise the good, ignore the bad. walk away. tried spending more time with him, thinking it was attention seeking. maybe sibling jealousy, because ds2 arrived a month after he started school. but to be honest he has always been quite difficult. just got worse in the last 2 yrs since school started.
the trouble is that none of these punishments seem to bother him. presumably they must. he must just be a very good actor.
of if they bother him; it doesn't seem to make his basic behaviour any better. it seems to be ineffective.
since he started school it has got worse. I mean I?ve always thought that I was loving, firm but fair. I have applied the basic parenting principals since birth.
and the glitch in my armour is that he is very powerful. he knows he makes my life unbearable. his bahaviour i can't stand. he knows this because no matter how much i try and hide it, it is the truth. I am the parent. how did it come to this?
I am happy at work, love dh. love ds2.
His behaviour is not awful. Just irritating and wearing.
He went to stay with my mum for 2 days just before term started. She devoted time to him entirely. And he was still whinging and answering back. She said she was shocked.
I got a bit cross. Thinking, god you only had it for 2 days. He wears me down and down and down, over 5/8 days. Then I snap because I can?t take it anymore.
I just hate him. truly he has worn me down. like living with an abuser I assume. when he does do nice things they just don't wash with me anymore. dh was horrified when I explained that I wish he could be adopted. he said oh you don't mean that. but truly I do. I told my mum the same 6 months ago. I have thought about it for many months. Tried to deny that I don?t love him anymore. Then admitted it. Worked on trying to rebuild my love for him, but so far that has not happened. I just hate him more. Everyone seems appalled by this. By why should you have any undying love for your child? If it my dh treating me like shit, you would all be jumping to tell me to leave him.
I have tried and tried and tried with ds1. I have lots of other pleasures in my life. He is the only real problem.

THIS IS NOT A PHASE.

SO I go to parenting classes. Useless. teach me nothing i didn't already know, wasn't already implementing. I speak to senco woman at school. She is lovely. she has no concerns. Tells me that only a child psychologist can help me. so i go to gp, then get paed appointment.
So off I go to paed appointment yesterday. He says he is wilful. Bright. Recommends 2 books:
The strong willed child by James Dobson
1-2-3 Magic, by Dr Phelan.
Says he will see me in 12 months.
I tell him that I need more. that i need help. That I am disappointed.
I have asked him twice to see a child psychologist as school senco and my mum (who is a sw) had advised me that I need.
I feel dismissed.
But I am desperate. I have gone past breaking point. Now I am numb and desperate.
I feel let down by the paed.
My mum recons that I do really need help. Help to cope. And that my marriage is in jeopardy over the strain.
I agree.

I will read the book, but am I too conceited to assume that they won?t tell me anythitngn I don?t already know ?
Hoping minxofmancunia will come and post. I know that she too comes from a totally loving family, has done all the paretning rules correctly, and yet has a very defiant and willfull dd.

What do I do ?

I saw the clinical pyschologist today. She thinks he's got aspergers. not ODD.
she wants to meet him. she suggested I go back to my new GP and insist on being refered to cahms so that he can be properly assessed. she suspects he may have many things. because he doesn't quite fit the 'profile' for any one in particular.
she wants to see him to assess him.
this was all helpful for getting things moving. but i didn't feel that this was helping ME specifically.
gin, i have had AD's before, back when i first went to ask for help from a GP. and she refered me to ss for abuse. but they did nothing for me. my new GP said this was because i wasn't depressed. my dh, my mum and my best friend all thought i wasn't depressed then and they all think i'm not now. struggling, yes. depressed, no.
gin, ds1 can be extremely loving and caring to me, dh, ds2 and his friends.
Avril, yes i agree, i need to look after me. what will a diagnosis prove ? how will this help?
i will consider more help, more after school club. or something to help me. not sure what though.

funnily enough, the top paed sent me tot eh child pyschologist saying i was critcal and urgent for help for ME. but today although telling her i wanted help to get my love for him back on track, she seen=med tot ake the tract that to help me do this, a diabnosis ewas needed first.
I might go back to top paed consultant with this comment.

I'm sorry to butt in on this thread, but I wondered if a completely different approach may help. You mention in the OP that all the suggestions you have had - positive parenting classes, these books - 123 magic etc, they say nothing you are not already doing, and this isn't surprising really, they might all offer slightly different approaches but they all stem from either a reward or punishment based system (or a combination of the two). Maybe it would be helpful to completely move away from this sort of extrinsic motivation by using the sort of techniques generally referred to as "gentle discipline". It doesn't mean just ignoring everything and it doesn't mean simply talking to the child about everything they do wrong and hoping that the words sink in (just to list the two most common misconceptions). It's difficult to explain but this is the most succinct summary I've found of all the most basic principles. You can find more in the MN archives or by googling "gentle discipline" (Not a massive fan of the name personally, but it will find you the most results).

Again apologies if this is totally inappropriate as I don't have any experience of your situation, I just wanted to offer an alternative viewpoint to the overwhelming one you seem to be getting from everywhere else. (Though I have read through the thread and see others have suggested similar things) Please feel free to ignore my post if I'm completely off the mark though.

(Also wanted to agree with other posters' at James Dobson recommendation from your paed - his stuff is downright creepy! :()

I feel really sorry for you OP. I hope your family resolves these issues but I noticed you said you would save DH before your Dc in fire?

Am I the only one who thinks this is odd?

Maybe he he plays up because he doesn't feel loved.

My first child really played up for about a year after I had a new baby. At school as well as at home. It took a lot of hard work and patience.

Feeling unloved/neglected isn't something children immediately recognise.

I was going that way with DD1 - to be honest, there's nothing in your post I wasn't going through, so I'm not shocked/surprised.

I read "unconditional parenting" and my feelings for her changed overnight - I realised there's no point in fighting a strong-willed child with strong-will, and suddently realised in fact I had a fantastic child - hard work, really hard work - but quite unique.

tums, your post is just the kind of sanctimonious, judgemental nonsense that others, including some on this thread, have warned me against.
You have no idea. My love had just evapourated after being beaten down and down and down. Are you insinutaing that my child is not loved or NEGLECTED. Are you accusing me of NEGLECT ?

There and Bertie. I have looked at Kohn. I realise that my son does not respond to rewards or punishments. so, you have to just show a loving, setting by example. but i always thought we had done this.
as others find, they read kohn, but find it difficult to put into action becasue he doesn't give step by step guidelines as to how to implement what he advises.

Oblomov - you say you don't love your DS1.

It sounds to me as if your DS1 doesn't love you.

Hence his being totally impervious to your feelings of frustration/disappointment etc in him. When children love their parents, they seek their approval.

I think the two of you need counselling to find some common ground...

Maryz, thank you for your kind post.
I value your opinions and advise HIGHLY.

I think this is my fear. that we just trot along for the next 15 years, just managing to cope. only just. clinging on by the skin of my teeth.
Is that a happy life ? No. Its only just managing. JUST.
Thats not what I want. I don't want that for me, for dh, or ds2.
Thats why I want ds1 taken away. Yes he is my son. But he is opnly 1 memebr if 4. There are 3 other people to consider aswell.

And yes before anyone else says, I know this sounds awful. I think it is too. I don't want to feel this way. But it is understandable. child pyschologist has validated my feelings as "understandable, given the history". So don't bother jumping on me. becasue I really don't need it.

Bonsoir, a lack of empathy is a classic aspergers sign. he doesn't understand or care the effects he has on say, me.
so no, this isn't JUST a child you doesn't love me. becasue of my supposed 'neglect' of him. or he doesn't love me now, becasue my love for him has evapourated over the last 3 years.
its got NOTHING to do with that. He does love me. He is infact very loving. and often happy. he jumped out of bwed this morning, as he does every morning, with the jopys of spring.
IT IS A CLASSIC ASPERGERS SIGN.
And if you too were a child pyschologist, or worked for CAHMS assessing children with problems, then I guess you would probably know this.

Bonsoir

I think you are missing the fundamental truth that sometimes a child can be impervious to feelings of anything via their special needs. DS2 is impervious to me because of his SN.
I love him wholeheartedly but in the early days , before we understood what was going on - why he was so impossible to cope with and so angry - it was very hard to love him.

I want to answer the unconditional parenting comment but I am going to burst something with the full force of my hollow laughter.

Unconditional parenting with ds2 and he would probably be in full time residential care

Oblomov

have you stuck this on SN?

You will get a great deal more informed advice on there , rather than some of the well intentioned but not desperately helpful stuff you are getting on here

I'm not missing any point. There are people (children and adult) who are totally impervious to the feelings of others but who do not have SN.

Pag, you're right.
I need to be on SN.
I didn't know this wehn I started this thread. But as it has progressed I have an ODD and Aspergers suggested diagnosis.
Undestandably, dh is very worried at how fragile I am. And some of the comments aren't helping.
Normally I am so very strong. But I just now I need help and support right now. Without condemnation.
maybe I'll ask Mn to move it.

Maryz, you are right. getting rid doesn't help.
And I too know I am a fab mum coping in difficilt circumstances. I always knew I was good.

I have asked for it to be moved to SN.

I have started another thread in SN. and linked this one to it, to give history.

Of course there are Bonsoir

But I believe Oblomov has explained that her strong belief is that she is dealing with Sn.
I tend to the view that she is probably more informed about that than anyone else on the thread. And try to do the courtesy of dealing with the problem she seeks help with , rather than foisting my own view of what could/maybe/might be going on if I assume she isn't reading it correctly

Bonsoir is a perfect example of the type of shitty comment that you can expect to hear from people who know fuck all about SN but really believe that if this was their child there would be no problems because they know how to parent correctly. Sadly you will also get it from teachers.

I THOUGHT I was doing a good job of feigning my love. I am so affectionate with him. cuddle him and kiss him as much as I ever did. Dh and I were always very physically affectionate with the boys. I cuddle. kiss.
At the weekend, we went to our caravan to do repairs. ds1 begged to do 'roll me over in the clover'. i deliberatly agreed. partly based on this thread. wme and him, whilst ds2 and dh stayed at the bottom, went to the top of the hill. I held him really tight and we rolled all the way to the bottom. singing 'roll me over in the clover, ' all thte way down.

Isn't that the kind of love you are all suggesting I show him ?

Dh says it's bollocks that he knows i don't love him. how could he possibly know, he says. but i am frightened that dh underestimates how intuitative ds1 is.

I THOUGHT i WAS HIDING IT WELL. i AM NOT SURE IF i AM OR NOT.

Morning.

Just to let you know that we're moving this thread to the Special Needs: children topic, at the OP's request

Hi Oblomov - i thought I posted this but it appears to have disappeared. I've sent you a CAT. SN DS1 has physical needs primarily but his other needs are becoming more and more obvious.

As a family we have been really helped by here I've told you a bit more about it in my CAT. It has saved my sanity and my relationships with my husband, DS1 and DS2 who was getting caught in crossfire!

Good luck and keep talking...