School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

[VividDenimTiger]

Posting here for traffic really. DD 14 has had issues in secondary school- we suspect ADHD to be honest. I am unravelling my own mid life ADHD traits at the moment too.

For DD, one of the things that manifests in school is persistent lateness. She just can’t organise herself to get to lessons on time. The school has now brought in a punishment for lateness where anyone late more than 5 mins gets sent to a punishment room for the lesson. Needless to say DD is now missing loads of lessons because of her lateness.

I know that it’s annoying for teachers when kids are late for lessons but it feels like this policy unfairly targets kids, like my DD, who might or do have some issues with timekeeping because of other things going on.

Aibu? I am trying to unravel some of this for DD (and myself) but I am really angry about how punitive this policy is- it feels like it disadvantages kids who genuinely have issues with organising their time and themselves. The corridors are really busy in school and she gets upset and overwhelmed and that doesn’t help all of this.

ND is a disability

ND can and often does cause disability, it is not in itself a disability and disability benefits are not paid just for the diagnosis.

ND people at the milder end of the spectrum are by no means always disabled. Many people make adaptations in their lives which prevent their ND traits being a disability. Before I'm shot down in flames, many people can't. And I'm not talking about masking.

I'm talking about people with ASD of the type that used to be called Asperger's who can get themselves into a career and lifestyle which suits them. Typical careers of the type are chemistry and tech roles. I'm talking about people with ADHD who have managed to train themselves to be early instead of late.

I'm ADHD, my husband is ASD. Neither of us are disabled. We are disadvantaged, but no more so than many NT people are by their own disadvantages.

ND itself is not a disability.

Complete rubbish. In the case of autsim 3 specific traits are focused on during diagnosis. The bar is high and they have to be shown to have a significant impact on life. Austism and how it presents and is diagnosed is most definitely not prevalent across the whole of society. 1% reach the threshold.Neither is ADHD which is 3-5% To get an ADHD diagnosis you also need to have specific traits shown to have a significant impact on life. They often occur together and are hugely disabling, having a big impact on life that leads to adverse outcomes.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/report-of-the-independent-adhd-taskforce-part-1/

It is dangerous to start treating humans as binary types of people. ND/NT. The science simply doesn't exist to support this kind of approach. We know that every single brain is 'wired' differently and almost all will have ND traits.

This doesn't mean a terrified child is forced without support and help into noisy corridors. This is true for any child, NT or ND. Does it matter if their fear is due to trauma, anxiety or an ND trait? We should look to treat everyone with compassion.

My wider point is that saying that ND excuses behaviour because it's a disability is a dangerous precedent to set. There is a school of thought that believes that psychopathy is a form of ND as it is associated with a different brain structure than a so called NT brain. Do we need to excuse all their behaviour based on this?

Incorrect - autism is officially recognized as a lifelong disability by medical authorities and legal frameworks, such as the NHS and the Equality Act.

Look at BAP. It is totally possible to have significant autistic traits and not reach the threshold for an autism diagnosis if they don't fit the diagnostic model neatly. Do you genuinely believe that ADHD and ASD are binary? That people with a diagnosis are hugely impacted and disabled by it and everyone else has no traits at all? This isn't how it works.

Both ADHD and ASD are dimensional and occur on a spectrum across the population, rather than being categorical disorders (Sonuga-Barke & Thapar, 2021). Doyle (2020)

Oh and you’re talking nonsense. There is no milder end. The bar is high to get a diagnosis. It needs to have a significant impact on life .

Autism has a massive impact on life. 70- 85% of autistic people are under employed or unemployed. If you are having to work in roles hugely under your capability because of autism that’s literally being disabled by your disability.

You can’t train yourself out of autism and there are work initiatives and medication that can help with adhd both of which are being withheld from this child in school.

To get an ADHD diagnosis you also need to have specific traits shown to have a significant impact on life. They often occur together and are hugely disabling, having a big impact on life that leads to adverse outcomes.

ADHD is a spectrum disease, it makes no sense to describe it as "hugely disabling". For many it simply isn't.

My own diagnosis was from the lead psychiatrist for adult ADHD in my area. He ended our consultation by saying my traits were so strong that contrary to his normal practice he was going to tell me immediately that I certainly had ADHD.

I am not only not "hugely disabled", I do not consider myself disabled at all. I landed on a a career that suited my traits down to the ground, I was able to put mechanisms in place that don't require masking or great effort to avoid the impact of some traits. I don't struggle with life any more than very many of the NT people I see around me.

I don't think the "everyone who is ND is a victim of their condition" narrative is helping the people who genuinely need help. In fact I think it's doing those people damage.

I am talking lived experience, and I am talking published research.

ADHD and ASD are spectrum diseases and it is completely ridiculous and flies in the face of the known evidence to say that there isn't a milder end. In ASD it used to be known as Asperger's. There is recent research showing two opposing physical brain shapes in people with ASD. One is associated with lower impact.

The employment figure you quote is of people with a diagnosis. There are many people, especially of my generation, in careers which suit them who wouldn't seek and don't feel they need a diagnosis because they are in work which suits them.

Incorrect and no idea how you got a diagnosis as to receive an ADHD diagnosis, your symptoms must cause a "clinically significant impairment" across multiple areas of life, such as at work, school, or in personal relationships. It is not enough to simply have the traits; they must actively interfere with your daily functioning.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/report-of-the-independent-adhd-taskforce-part-1/

There is no mild autism or adhd when the threshold for diagnosis is high and both have to have a significant impact on life to reach threshold.

I live it with ADHD. My husband lives it with Asperger's type ASD.

Are you saying we don't exist?

This narrative that it's impossible to moderate the effects of either conditions by lifestyle changes is, I believe, doing huge harm to those people who can't moderate the effects and need help from tax payers and co workers who are increasingly frustrated about what is being claimed to be unavoidable disability.

I got a diagnosis because if I went storming around expecting the world to adapt to me, instead of me adapting to it where I am able, it would indeed cause severe difficulties in living my life.

I'll repeat here, my diagnosis is from the lead psychiatrist for the NHS on adult ADHD in my area.

My nephew's official diagnosis, written in a letter from the hospital, was 'mild Asperger's syndrome'. (Back in the day when it was as still called that).

I came back on this site a few months ago after a few years away. It's become even more right wing and intolerant. No wonder mumsnet has the reputation it has. It's full of ignorant arrogant bigots. I can't imagine any of you people telling her to mask and /or suck it up will do any research to attempt to see our POV or listen to those of us who are telling you the dangers of masking and the real proven risk to mental health and risk of suicide so I'm not posting anymore.

Op if I were you I would try reddit or another place with more reasonable folk on it. Facebook has lots of good send parent groups. Mumsnet is not the place to talk about mental health or invisible disabilities.
But if you want to complain that your darling's private school is a bit more expensive or someone parked outside your house and your massive SUV won't quite fit in the remaining space or God forbid your child's teacher wants them to use PRONOUNS then you are in the right place.

We’re not back in the day of Asperger’s and have moved on significantly. Back in the day women and girls were often not even recognised as having austism and adhd.

And I repeat I have no idea how you got a diagnosis as to receive an ADHD diagnosis, your symptoms must cause a "clinically significant impairment" across multiple areas of life, such as at work, school, or in personal relationships. It is not enough to simply have the traits; they must actively interfere with your daily functioning.

As made clear in the NHS Taskforce report I linked to below which was created by leading experts in the field.

@Viviennemarywhilst it’s tough, life unfortunately doesn’t make any special exceptions so now would be a great opportunity to help your DD learn the skills she needs to be on time, however tough that might be.

Do you think it helps the people who genuinely need disability payments and reasonable adjustments at work to dismiss the experiences of others that it is possible for some people to moderate the disabling effects of ASD and ADHD?

I predict we will quite soon have a new label for people who would have been Asperger's in the past.

Not only is there a growing body of professional opinion saying this would be the right path, it's supported by the latest research.

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2026/06/260602021634.htm

But if you are moderating the disabling effects then you’re making your own adjustments - it doesn’t mean that it’s not a disability, just that in your circumstances it’s not a disability you need additional adjustments for.

The problem with denying that it’s a disability which in some cases will require adjustments is that it then leads people who don’t know much to think “well, X has ADHD and says it’s not a disability so therefore Y must be taking this piss as Y isn’t actually disabled”.

A relative had a physical job, drove a car without adaptations, didn’t need any help or adjustments for anything he wanted to do. He also only had one leg. Would you also consider him not to have had a disability or is it somehow different if it’s visible?

I think you have entered some kind of extreme thinking. As referenced upthread, all of us have ND traits. It's part of being human. Some people will have traits that can be managed more easily and are more compatible with living a 'normal' life. Some people will have far more extreme traits that are difficult to manage even with all the best techniques and adjustments. To lump everyone together and say that those that can manage their traits are just as disabled as those that can't is plainly ludicrous.

A good analogy with a physical disability is eyesight. I would be legally blind if it weren't for the invention of glasses and contact lenses that work for me because I have regular astigmatism. If I were to have irregular astigmatism then glasses and contact lenses wouldn't necessarily correct my vision adequately and I would potentially need more specialist solutions which also might not work. Ultimately I could be rendered legally blind if I had the level of astigmatism that I currently have but it was irregular instead of regular.

By your definition, anyone with severe astigmatism should be considered disabled as without adjustments we would all be legally blind. That's clearly nonsense though as that would put me, someone who can function well with glasses and contact lenses, in the same category as someone that would be unable to do so many things due to their poor eyesight.

ND is even more nuanced as how do we even know who is ND and who isn't? Those most able to advocate for themselves often want the idea of a spectrum and different levels of needs to be erased but where does it leave those who will never live independently, speak or use the toilet?

The problem with denying that it’s a disability which in some cases will require adjustments

I haven't done that.

A relative had a physical job, drove a car without adaptations, didn’t need any help or adjustments for anything he wanted to do. He also only had one leg. Would you also consider him not to have had a disability or is it somehow different if it’s visible?

Does he drive his car up to the tills in Tesco?

Yea, I wish I never started the thread tbh. There are some lovely supportive poeple who have made useful comments which I am very grateful for.

But generally it’s a toxic hellsite full of absolute c*nts that know nothing about disability and are pushing a disturbing intolerant view of society. And who also seem to get off on bullying disabled kids. It’s really disturbing.

Sorry it has been difficult - I would report your post and ask for it to be moved to special education as you will get the right audience there.