School lateness punishments, neurodiversity and the law

[VividDenimTiger]

Posting here for traffic really. DD 14 has had issues in secondary school- we suspect ADHD to be honest. I am unravelling my own mid life ADHD traits at the moment too.

For DD, one of the things that manifests in school is persistent lateness. She just can’t organise herself to get to lessons on time. The school has now brought in a punishment for lateness where anyone late more than 5 mins gets sent to a punishment room for the lesson. Needless to say DD is now missing loads of lessons because of her lateness.

I know that it’s annoying for teachers when kids are late for lessons but it feels like this policy unfairly targets kids, like my DD, who might or do have some issues with timekeeping because of other things going on.

Aibu? I am trying to unravel some of this for DD (and myself) but I am really angry about how punitive this policy is- it feels like it disadvantages kids who genuinely have issues with organising their time and themselves. The corridors are really busy in school and she gets upset and overwhelmed and that doesn’t help all of this.

mine does and also never remembers to charge their power bank for when they're going out and they've forgot to charge their phone.

Graded exposure therapy isn't appropriate for sensory processing difficulties so no this won't help. It's not a fear, it's that your brain can't process all the things going on at the same time. The fact you think this is appropriate demonstrates your lack of knowledge around sensory processing difficulties/disorder.

Who's giving up? Op has practical and acceptable solutions to help her dd navigate her challenges. The school won't implement them or let her use them. It's not op or her dd who are the problem.

I don't believe that every ND person will react the same way because every NT person doesn't either.

I would try anything to help my child adapt to situation where, for example, catching a train on an extremely busy platform might be their only way of earning a living at some time in the future.

I am not talking about children who don't have the capacity for such learning. I am not talking about forcing such training on a child.

But you have no idea what parents are doing to support their teen to catch trains or bus or delayed with any other situations outside of school.
Because the issue is in school and the techniques that would help in the situation are being refused by the school.
The issue is school and the solution needs to work in school. Train station is irrelevant because managing in a train station isn't going to help managing in school when the techniques you use at the train station are refused by school

LOL - I used to work on a trading floor, but it was 20 years ago and they were lively! You did learn to tune out the noise to just your local seating area though… plus I had been a teacher for a few years beforehand, so maybe that prepared me! I’d love to go and take a look at how they seem these days with all the new tech. These days I struggle to follow a conversation if the telly or radio is on… old age!

I run an old style Stock Market Challenge for my students every year. I do warn them what it'll be like though and if I had a child like OP's, I'd give her the option to stay in school.

To be fair my daughter regularly runs out of charge. I have lots of her friends numbers on my phone for this reason. She also loses her phone.

And the thing about charging it for them is that most kids with ND have ND parents. I forget to charge my own stuff and would forget to help my kids if that feel into my long list of responsibilities too. I now have chargers in the car and my work bag for my phone and watch. Dd cant do that at school. I also lose my chargers sometimes but I have money to buy replacement chargers a child does not.

I've learnt not to rely on devices for
managing my adhd and wouldn't think it would help my daughter either.

No, it was not “meaning” that.

Again, inventing meanings that were not in a post and arguing against that is ridiculous.

The discussion was around the difference between what schools can accommodate and what can be expected in work.

Ok what did you mean then and how was it relevant to school not supporting?

How is possible lack of support at work got anything to do with what a pupil n eds to access an education?

Exactly this. Unbelievable that people who really don’t know what they’re talking about feel fit to lecture to others who do.

In what way? What is a NT brain?

I would try anything to help my child adapt to situation where, for example, catching a train on an extremely busy platform might be their only way of earning a living at some time in the future.

And a really good way of coping with that is using ear defenders / ear plugs / headphones. Which the school isn’t allowing.

From an NHS website I have found

We’re all neurodiverse – all our brains are different. However, over 15% of people in the UK, or roughly 1 in 7 individuals, are neurodivergent.
A neurodivergent person’s brain processes information differently from what is considered typical for most people. Autism, attention deficit disorders (ADHD), dyslexia and dyspraxia are some examples of the most widely recognised neurodivergent conditions.
Most neurodivergent conditions are experienced within a spectrum – meaning that the experience will differ from person to person. A person can also identify with more than one type of neurodivergence.

I know what I see people write on forums and it often seems to be the case of "get the diagnosis and give up trying to fit the child for the world they live in".

I know many, possibly most, parents are not like this. Some definitely are, from what they write.

A brain that works in the same way as the majority of other brains.

Most brains, for example, will give the owner a shot of dopamine as a reward they get the last corner of the floor clean or put the last piece in the jigsaw.

Those of ADHD people don't. That's part of ADHD neuro divergence and has wide implications for the way that person lives.

On the other hand, if you give an ADHD person and an NT person information jumbled up amongst garbage, the ADHD person will spot the patterns in the data measurably quicker than an NT person. That can be very useful of you choose the right career.

What is this 'same way' that brains all work in and why do misconceptions occur in two NT children if their brains are clones of each other?

So what is this clone brain you talk of and why do they process things differently if they are all the same?

NT ppl process things differently to each other or else all kids who are NT would learn all at the same rate...but they do not. So that means all brains process things differently.

There is no such thing as a cloned brain.

Who discovered that one group of ppl all have the same brain that thinks in exactly the same way..

I thought all brains were different?? Can you link me to some reading on this one NT brain that exists....I am not quite sure I believe that all NT ppl have the exact same brain and think in exactly the same way and process in exactly the same way....

I thought we had a diverse range of brains and everyone's brain thinks differently to another....

That is never what people suggest.

Get a diagnosis so that the Reasonable adjustments the need and are legally entitled to can be insisted upon yes but not so they can give up

From someone with ADHD who used to struggle with timekeeping (and tbh very much has zero sense of time...5 minute and an hour can feel exactly the same at times 😳) the only way I've been able to manage this is be early. My logic being you can't be late, if you're early.

And yes I do completely understand how hard it is to get going (especially with ADHD and a delayed circadian rhythm!) but if you can't get into the routine of getting up even half an hour early it will help in the long run.

I don't actually start my shift at work till 4, but I've already been here half an hour and just having some time before I start to mentally transition to work mode.

As great as it would be that s hool could just adjust it, at the same time I see it as an issue which CAN eventually be managed by you/your DD you've just got to figure out what works bet

Absolute rubbish. The fact is masking is hugely damaging,that’s a fact. ND children and young people often can’t advocate for themselves and need parents to battle the education system and broken MH services. Families are on their knees. Children need to learn how not to become overwhelmed which means not masking but finding what works to help avoid getting to that state. Sitting through an 8 hour day without reasonable adjustments leads to meltdown and self harm not meltdown avoidance.

I can be like this. For example I used to work ina school where being late was not ok at all so I just arrived at 7:30. Obviously I never actually arrived at 7:30 but i was almost always earlier than the start tome of the day.

However that cant be applied in the same way to lesson transitions unless she gets to leave early which they refuse.

I now work in a flexible.job where I can start when I start and finish 8 hrs later. It works so well for me. But again not possible in school

It's not rubbish. It's stuff parents write quite often on this forum. For some parents, the diagnosis stops them trying to get their child to fit in with the world they will have to live in as adults.

No it does not! It helps them to understand their disability more. I’m on most ND threads and have not seen what you’re saying at all.

I have read but cannot find a definition of a clone brain anywhere...no one has yet to define what NT brains do and how they are all identical to each other....

All I have found is that all brains are different....every single person's....hence where the term ND comes from...it was created to talk about how all brains are different.

By all means you can share your reading on the scientific definition of a NT brain and how all those brains do exactly the same thing and never develop misconceptions...

I imagine teachers would disagree as all kids learn at different rates....even when labelled NT...which makes no sense if they all process things exactly the same?

Completely agree that we are all neurodiverse, that term was created to talk about how all brains are different.

I do not know what is considered typical....could you please link me to what a typical brain does and what is considered typical if you will?

I am ASD so completely understand the list of labels you provided but no idea what a typical brain does as nowhere can I find what a 'typical' brain is or does.

Sadly on here, ppl are not so welcoming for ASD brains....but then they clearly do not accept ppl with ASD. Sadly had to report a few for discrimination for saying I do not know what it is despite having it myself.

I would be interested in reading anything you have though if you could kindly share.