EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

@SENhelp50 it is important to know what stage you are at. Has an EHCNA actually been requested yet?

You don’t have to use your LA’s template if you don’t want to. Think about things such as what DC likes/dislikes/what makes DC happy, what is important to DC and what is important for DC, things that are working well/not so well and things that have already been tried but haven’t worked, strengths/difficulties, how DC communicates/how others communicate with DC, what DC wants to do in the future/aspirations, important history, a bit about family/any other important people in DC’s life (but the focus should be on DC not your disability).

Thank you. This helps me re focus. I am being drawn towards this over explaining about myself because I'm consistently accused of being mentally ill and emotionally abusive ( by my ex and my own child is behaving towards me as if I'm an emotional abuser.) I am conscious of consistent attempts to blame problems for my child on me as a parent.

You have helped me re focus this is not the place for me to try defend against that🙏

I have had a good conversation with school just now. They explained that they have had Ed Psych in and are submitting a request for EHCP assessment in January. They have decided to lead and are collating alot of information. I feel clear now with a great overview from yourself. Thank you.

SEND reform national conversation - Department for Education - Citizen Space https://consult.education.gov.uk/digital-communication-team/send-reform-national-conversation/ this is the link for the current government SEND survey if you can bear it (15 pages, all free text!). Be aware when filling in that a number of questions ask about setting up or doing things that are already required in law .

My child is currently in the EHC needs assessment process. I have sent off all the reports I have and filled what I needed too, school senco has done the same. His paediatrician has sent off the report. Ep has been out to school and wrote a report just waiting for it to be checked before going on the hub. The deadline is 5th January. The salt report hasnt been done yet, my child had an appointment with the speech therapist today and she said she will see my child again 5th Jan then will write the report so the report will be late.
What happens is the report is late? Will it still be used in making the decision?

Hi all, I have been lurking on this thread for a couple of weeks but with the impending doom of school starting again I am trying to get things moving for my dd.

She is 12 and started secondary in September, so Y7. She was diagnosed autistic in June 2024. She is highly academic and the classic high masking girl - had a few wobbles in primary but had a fantastic Y6 thanks to an amazing teacher she had. The wheels have fallen off spectacularly since starting secondary. She threw herself in at the very start and was doing suspiciously well, then after a few weeks has just burnt out. School have been supportive so far (in my eyes, but I am really not experienced in this whatsoever) and have been making adjustments but nothing is helping so far and she’s down to around 50% attendance now. She’s spent the whole holidays upset and anxious about going back. I spend every night sat by her bed trying to get her to sleep whilst she has meltdowns for hours and it’s just awful.

So far she has a pass to leave class early to avoid busy corridors, a 5 minute break pass and a toilet pass (all of which she won’t use because she doesn’t want to stand out which I totally get). She has access to the library at any time for a quiet space too and has her Loop ear plugs. She’s on a reduced timetable and I drive her in so she misses form, she does one lesson a day in the Learning Support Hub and I collect her early before lunch at 1.20pm. We’ve been trying the reduced timetable for 2 weeks after a long period of absence following October half term, but she’s either gone in extremely late or been off for the majority of the time. We had a meeting with HoY who was lovely and seemed to understand DD’s struggles but I do appreciate we are very early on in all of this so things may change.

I had a thread in Chat a few months back and got some great advice - I am spending this weekend filling in the EHCNA form on the Bradford Council Schools portal as I think that’s my first ‘official’ step. We don’t really have any supporting ‘evidence’ apart from her autism assessment report, but things has progressed massively with her since then and she’s struggling more and more as time passes so I don’t feel it’s a great reflection of how she is now, if that makes sense. I know she doesn’t even technically need a diagnosis for us to start the process but I want our application to be as strong as possible throughout. Does anyone know if we will be ok with me just answering the questions on the form or if I need to do anything else, for example seeing our GP to discuss her anxiety/low mood, or anything like that? I haven’t fully read through the form yet so not 100% of what information is being asked of me but I’m going to carve out some time this weekend to get started.

Sorry that was much longer than anticipated. Thanks if you got this far 😃

Asking for an EHC needs assessment | (IPSEA) Independent Provider of Special Education Advice https://share.google/aFefj6ETI71nu6944

I would recommend following IPSEA's advice in full. There's no prescribed format to request an ECHNA in fact (a letter to the Director of Children's Services is ok) but use their portal as long as it gives you sufficient space to cover the IPSEA bullet points.

Your poor DD. Sounds like she's really struggling! And poor all of you - it's awful to have a school holiday ruined in this way. I'm glad the school is being supportive, but working in a large secondary myself, there's only so much they can do (it's an institution where students attempt to learn in groups of 30+ and corridors are crammed). So the sooner you can get to the bottom of her needs, the better. Especially if she cannot advocate for them, which is completely understandable.

Could you drop a note in to the y6 teacher at the primary and ask her to email you with bullet points of what the main challenges were and helped DD there? That could be useful for the secondary SENCO and support the ECHNA request. Year 6 to year 7 transition is often bungled and the primary should have requested the ECHNA in year 5 if not before.

Hi @Purpletaco yes reports can still be used even if late. Send the template letter below on Monday, appropriately adjusted for your case, addressed to the Director of Children's Services at your LA, so they know you know the law.

Also ring up the SLT service yourself and chase. I had to do that with every report (and I had to book most of them in too!)

Template letter 10: letter to LA when it does not send a draft or final EHC plan on time https://share.google/7N648lFfu2extAhtt

This is for @Leafywool

@Leafywool you don’t need to use the LA’s form/portal if you don’t want to. IPSEA’s letter for requesting an EHCNA will suffice. Or your own letter if you prefer.

The test for an EHCNA is relatively low. It is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. You don’t need to show anything else.

Do you have evidence from the current school? Emails? Attendance record? Minutes from meetings? You could think about making a SAR to the current school but don’t delay submitting the EHCNA request. You don’t need GP evidence. Although I think speaking to your GP is a good idea.

Do you think DD is well enough to attend school at all?

Have you requested section 19 provision? Is alternative provision in place?

@Purpletaco under another name I replied on your thread; don’t want you thinking I am ignoring you.

Thank you @Needlenardlenoo that’s all really helpful. I was looking at the IPSEA website for the first time last night whilst getting dd to bed but I’ll sit an have a more thorough look today.

Yes I do understand the schools hands are tied somewhat, but I’ve been thankful for their support so far. The head of year said a few times that she wants to try everything they can because dd wants to be in school and learning, and it would be a travesty if she couldn’t access a good education through no fault of her own. I have another meeting with school soon to review the adjustments they have made but I’m not really sure what else they can do at this point.

Emailing her Y6 teacher is a brilliant idea - I’d not thought of that. One thing I have found odd is there’s not really been any word from the SENDCO at all - it’s all been HoY and the Y7 ‘transition manager’ (who I do genuinely really like and has been great). I had requested a meeting with SENDCO a few weeks back but no one got back to me, although not sure what it will achieve at this point if it’s all being handled by the other staff anyway?

@thatsnotmygarden thank you too, all really helpful points. Most of our communication with school has been via email and any meetings have been followed up with emails so I have everything written down thankfully. I’ll make sure I continue with this and follow up any phone calls with emails just to have a paper trail of what’s been discussed.

I don’t think dd is well enough to attend school currently. It is very hard as I know the worst thing for her would be to push it, but then it’s difficult to know where I cross the line between encouragement and pushing too much. She is extremely anxious and says she is so sad all the time, and the sadness follows her round. I’m not sure if I should still take her to the GP but don’t know what they can ‘do’ for her (or maybe it’s good just to have it recorded somewhere?). She’s on a waiting list for talking therapy through a local charity which we have self referred to but it’s a 6 month wait.

I am not familiar with section 19 provision or what that is, so will look that up now!!

Hi @Leafywool please do take her to the GP. It can't hurt.

In my area the paediatrician was able to signpost to various mental health/other support services for tweens/teens, which I wasn't previously aware of. To see the paediatrician requires a GP referral generally.

My DD attends my school and our safeguarding lead was able to come up with a couple of charities, one of which was able to help us quite promptly (sounds like your DD is quite "internal" whereas mine tends to thump us when depressed and anxious...)

If the SENCO is overwhelmed or not very on it, other staff may be being proactive (I've certainly been in that position in schools at times, as a class teacher).

I think DS needs more therapeutic input. I would push back on CAMHS. It isn’t won’t. It is can’t. They need to change their approach so, with time, DS can engage.

Finally following up on my post from a month ago. Thanks (as always!) for your reply, @thatsnotmygarden.

CAMHS came back to us post "assessment" with nothing more than a suggestion that DS join an in-person youth support group several miles away. This for a kid with, according to a private psychiatry report, "profound social anxiety" and at risk of clinical depression. The assessing "mental health nurse" (really, she seemed clueless and out of her depth) questioned the validity of our private report but when I pushed for her to refer DS to a CAMHS psychiatrist or clinical psychologist, she refused.

When I mentioned school-related trauma, the response was that since DS now has a place at a SS and isn't in MS, trauma should not be an issue any more. There seemed to be zero understanding of DS needing support to work through the past trauma.

What is the best way to push back again? Do I escalate and to whom?

On a more positive note, DS actually went to school for two half days just before Christmas, but this was when fewer kids were around. We're hopeful that he might be able to start attending in some capacity when we go back next week, but he's been non-committal so far.

In the meantime, we have an early review scheduled for after Feb half-term.

since DS now has a place at a SS and isn't in MS, trauma should not be an issue any more.

What a ridiculous statement, @SpaceInvader321. The trauma doesn’t disappear just because DS is no longer in MS.

I would follow the complaints process for CAMHS. The service should be able to provide you with their process. I would also ask them to document your concerns, your request and their refusal, so that should anything happen, there is evidence of their refusal. You could also contact the ICB & the DCO/DMO directly. If exhausting the complaints process doesn’t work, it may be possible to go to the PHSO. Whether that is worth it will depend on the details of DS’s circumstances beyond what is posted online.

More therapeutic provision, including provision for working through the school trauma, can be included in F of the EHCP, but that may take an appeal following the review.

If you had to appeal the educational side of things, you could also ask SENDIST to look at C&G. This can cover more general psychiatrist input. The outcome of an extended appeal for C&G isn’t binding in the same way the educational sections are, but if the ICB decline to follow the recommendations, JR can be possible depending on the specific circumstances or you could go to the PHSO.

@Leafywool chase the SENCO.

Your paper trail with the school can be used as evidence.

Knowing when to push and when not to is difficult. IMO, DD has crossed from encouragement being supportive and beneficial to continuing to push will cause further trauma.

Yes, take DD to the GP.

Under section 19 of the Education Act 1996, the LA has a duty to ensure compulsory school aged DC unable to attend school full time still receive a suitable full-time education. It is alternative provision. You will hear it called various different things depending on your LA.

It comes in various forms depending on the LA and individual needs. Some examples include home tutoring, online schooling, tuition at a library/community centre/centre the LA uses, PRU, care farm, forest school, outward bounds AP, gaming AP, mentoring…

Sometimes it will be as well as part time school and sometimes it will be instead of school. This should have been provided when it became clear DD would miss 15 days and provision should have started by the sixth day of absence. The days didn’t need to have already been missed or consecutive. An EHCP is not needed for this.

@thatsnotmygarden fantastic, thank you for the clear explanation. It’s much appreciated! I have learnt more from mumsnet than I ever have trying to google and decode various websites to find the information I need.

So do I need to write to the LA about section 19 rather than go through the school?

@Leafywool contact both the LA and school about AP. Ultimately, it is the LA with the responsibility for ensuring DC unable to attend school still receive a suitable full-time education. Despite this, LAs often try to fob parents off by telling them the school needs to arrange AP or the school needs to make a referral. Don’t fall for it.

Thanks again @thatsnotmygarden - apologies if this is a stupid question, but do I need to specify what ‘type’ of AP I think is appropriate (I have no idea!) or do the LA decide what they are willing to provide considering the circumstances?

What a ridiculous statement. The trauma doesn’t disappear just because DS is no longer in MS.

@thatsnotmygarden That's what I tried to explain. Really hard to believe this was a qualified mental health professional saying this. She claimed it was the view of the MDT that had reviewed the assessment. I'll get in touch with CAMHS this week. Thank you.

@Leafywool I haven't had to find AP but I did need to find a suitable secondary for my daughter and I found the primary school and (possibly? Who knows as they basically ignore me unless a tribunal's involved) the LA pretty ignorant about any out of area/out of the norm school choices. I had to do all the research myself and say "this is what we want".

@Leafywool you don’t need to know what AP before making the request.

@SpaceInvader321 sadly, it doesn’t surprise me.

@thatsnotmygarden thank you so much for explaining this clearly, makes a lot of sense and answers a lot of questions I had in my head.

Our B and F appeal concluded yesterday thankfully, hopefully there will be closure either way soon.

I will be visiting more specialist settings prior to the AR in May as I plan to request a change of placement then.

Hi @Bearlionfalcon I hope you don’t mind me asking. Would you recommend the multi-disciplinary assessment as it sounds quite good. Would you mind sharing approx costs just to get an idea? Thanks.

I’m thinking about having a private EP assessment done at some point but not sure if combined SLT/OT/EP would be better.

I was away at my mums place as she is not well. I am back home now, DD is back at school and I am looking at the EHCNA refuse to assess letter. The letter is dated 4th Dec and has given me 2 months to appeal. I am thinking of appealing as soon as I can.

Today I have called the Global Mediation and lodged a case. Should I go for mediation once they have opened a case or just ask for certificate?

I am collecting all letters, forms and past communication with school about DD's needs. What else can I provide with appeal?

I will be very grateful for all your help. I am such a mess now, DDs behaviour has gone totally out of control while I was looking after my mum and I am also searching for a job.

@Ponche fingers crossed when it comes through the Order is what you need.

@Vtm personally, I wouldn’t bother with mediation. LAs often use it as a delaying tactic.

The LA can still concede, even if you just request the certificate and submit to SENDIST.

If you haven’t already, submit SARs to the school, LA and any other agency/professional involved.

Think about whether you need any independent assessments. Depending on what evidence you already have, this isn’t always necessary for a refusal to assess appeal, but you should consider if you need any.

Thanks a lot. I think I will just request a mediation cerificate then. Everything is already so delayed because I couldnt give it anytime over last one month.

Do you think a private ADOS assessment would help with appeal. I have a referal for that from the doctor who did her ADHD assessment. DD has ADHD disgnosis but not Autism diagnosis. Based on her symptoms, behaviour and teacher's questionaire doctor said DD might have Autism with PDA.

DD is currently not on NHS wait list for anything. Where do I start that? Shall I contact GP or CAMHS? I had a previous communication with CAMHS with referal from school but they just refused to do anything.

If you plan to spend money on independent assessments to support a refusal to assess, I would go with an EP assessment over an ASD assessment. EHCNAs are based on needs, not diagnosis. But if you decide to go ahead with an ASD assessment, if which ADOS is often a part of, you can use the report as evidence.

If you want to go down the NHS route, speak to the GP and school. The ASD pathway depends on where you live (and in some areas what age DC even within the area). Sometimes it is via paeds, sometimes via a standalone service, and sometimes via CAMHS.