EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

The LA has to give you at least 15 days. If you need longer, ask.

Unfortunately, the EP report wording is inadequate. It needs to be detailed, specified and quantified. The content of EHCPs is evidence driven. Because the evidence is poor, the EHCP will be too.

You should contact your preferred placement, the current mainstream and any others you think may be consulted to provide them with an accurate picture for responding to the consults. Don’t rely on the LA giving the full picture. The schools may raise concerns based on the draft and what is not in the draft but should be. Although the LA may still name them, anyway. If the current placement is named, then DS can attend. Just like he can attend now if you want him to. If you don’t think DS can attend school full-time, you can request alternative provision now. That does not require the EHCP to be in place. It is separate from the EHCP process and it should have been put in place long before now.

My son is in year 7, EHCP and been permanently excluded.
He was in mainstream and I was trying to get a change of placement but the LA had not put the paperwork through in time and told me to wait. In which time he was PEX. I'm not appealing the PEX as it's pretty pointless, he lasted 10 weeks in Mainstream school.
Now the PEX has prompted a change of placement under section I. I have named a specialist, the LA are consulting on Parental preference. But they feel his needs can still be met in Mainstream and consulting with them.
Due to the PEX he is now educated outside of school and the LA have set him work online with a tutor online. Which obviously does not meet provision F. I also work full time and after next week I have zero childcare. I have complained to the director of children and suprise, nobody cares.
I have two questions with anyone that has been through this:
1.When the LA name a school that is not parental preference I have the right to appeal under SEN tribunal, this is currently a 9-12 month wait, is this triaged as more urgent as he is not in school? Also will the 'tutoring' remain in place whilst I appeal?
2.I have contacted every solicitor I possibly can to proceed with judicial review, can anyone recommend anyone that could take legal aid and has availability?
I actually have no idea what to do and I don't actually no how I'm going to keep my job. Anyone that's been through this experience and could share would be much appreciated, I can't find this situation online anywhere.O

I have some questions about the EHCNA decline appeal. What LA has said is:
The request submission does not evidence the current provision in place and there is no evidence of external services involved to provide recommendations for support.

My daughter has been going for tution for a year where teaching is done in a small focussed group and we have been doing one to one learning at home with her. I don't want to come across as pushy parent, I only enrolled her because she was falling behind in her learning. By end of Year 2, she was low and saying I am not good at this, I am not good at that etc. I wanted her to get some self confidence. Should I submit the proof of her tution enrollment as external services involved for support or will it go against her appeal.

In terms of her friendship circle, she struggles socially and I have been inviting friends for playdates at home or playground etc during all term breaks and summer holidays. She rarely gets invited and I feel the only invitations are because some parent feel like reciprocating after couple of playdates. Would proof of that help, I will hide all names from proof.

I have also enrolled her in many external and school clubs to help her socially. Would that work as proof.

I am at a loss what kind of proof I can give to show that my daughter is where she is with a lot of support from us.

@Vtm the threshold for refusal to assess is low. You only need to show DD a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP.

You can do this in different ways. Have you made a subject access request to the school, LA, and any other agency/service/professional involved? Will the tutor write a statement? A good statement will be far better than proof of tuition. Play date invites won’t help. Neither will proof of attendance at extra-curricular clubs. Depending on the club/whoever runs it/DD's needs, a statement from them may help. They aren’t always necessary for RtA appeals, but have you considered independent assessments?

Welcome @SMO212. I don’t want you to think I am ignoring you. Under another name I have replied to your thread on the SN board.

Thank you so much for your reply. I will reach out to the tutor and the club instructors for help with statement.

She has private assessment of ADHD and doctor said she might have ASD with PDA but for that I need to do furher assessment. Doctor also suggested she might have DCD and that would need further assessment too. I can't book assessments this month as due to Chrismas, I dont have budget. I can only book in January and there may be a wait list for appointment as well. Appointment can't be booked unless I pay upfront some amount.

Do you think I should go for ASD+DCD assessment or shall I look for private EP. I could do only one of these. I can only just afford one at this stage.

If you go down the independent assessment route, I would look at an EP assessment. Failing that, an OT assessment, which is generally slightly cheaper than EP assessments. EHCPs are based on needs rather than diagnosis. Have you checked if you are eligible for legal aid? Legal aid, or rather legal help for appeals to SENDIST, can fund assessments if necessary. If you aren’t eligible for legal aid, there are charities, e.g. Parents in Need, who can help.

Thanks a lot for your help. I will check if I am eligible for legal aid. I will post here any updates too as it will be helpful for anyone similar to my situation.

Were you not offered a place in a Pupil Referral Unit following the PEX?

Hi @SMO212 I'm very sorry to hear this has happened! And so soon into year 7. We can help you with EHCP things on this thread, but regarding the PEX, I think you could gain from reading about other Mumsnetters who've been through that. There was some good advice on the thread below from a poster called @lulublakey1.It is not sufficient for the LA to offer online learning that you have to supervise. They need to find your child a place in a PRU or other form of in person Alternative Provision. Meanwhile you can be looking for a school for him to move to permanently and get that named in the EHCP. Contact your MP. They may or may not get the SEND aspect (hopefully they will as there's been so much publicity) but explain your job is at risk. You may have to explore being signed off from work temporarily. Contact your GP.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5069766-permanent-exclusion?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

In general terms, online tutoring as sixth day provision/day 6 provision can be acceptable. What isn’t acceptable is requiring the parents to facilitate that, so the LA needs to provide staffing if required and another venue if the family doesn’t want it at home. However, online provision may not be acceptable in this specific case depending on the content of the EHCP and pp’s DS’s SEN.

It really helps to think of the EHCP as a “contract” between you and the LA. It only protects your child if it’s written precisely. If the language is vague (words like “access to” or “regular support”), there’s nothing enforceable behind it.
What makes the biggest difference is going through the draft line by line and matching each need in section B with a specific provision in section F, including frequency, who delivers it, and how it’s monitored. Once you start highlighting those links, it becomes clear where gaps or woolly wording are hiding.
I totally get how exhausting this process is, but you’re doing exactly the right thing by looking carefully now. In my experience fixing a draft at this stage saves so much stress later on.

I'm so deflated and confused. Still being ignored by the LA who are late issuing the EHCP. Threatened legal action and still nothing. Got a quote from Watsons to do a PAP which is £750!! Is it likely anyone else would be less?

I also don't know what happens if the Independent School we want doesn't agree to be named. DS supposed to be having a trial lesson in person but it's been postponed until after Christmas as the teacher is sick. Although given the LA has dropped off the face of the earth I doubt they will be consulting before then anyway.

I requested a TAC meeting (as offered when the draft was issued) because we haven't identified any other provision that can meet his needs. If I've requested this I assume this needs to happen before a new draft is issued? I am sure there are provisions we're not aware of that we're missing.

But what happens if you genuinely can't find the right setting? The LA needs to consult and name one anyway right?

DS has now been accepted into Hospital Outreach which is at least one positive so there will be some kind of support in January.

Reading messages from other support groups where parents have been in this awful limbo for years so it's hard not to get despondent.

@LittlePickleHead after issuing the draft and giving you at least 15 days to make representations, there is no further legal requirement for the LA to issue another draft if they aren't going to make any amendments or the amendments made are a result of the representations. The LA can finalise without issuing a further draft. If they wish to make other changes, they must reissue another draft. (SENCOP 9.125/9.126.)

The TAC doesn’t have to happen before the EHCP is finalised.

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school, there is EOTAS/EOTIS. LAs will often go through the consultation process anyway, but they don’t have to. They often tell parents they must, but it isn’t a requirement before agreeing EOTAS/EOTIS. In some cases, it is blatantly obviously the legal test for EOTAS/EOTIS is met without sending any consults.

Not all EHCPs will have a placement named. Some will have section I blank (no placement and no type of placement) for EOTAS/EOTIS/C. Some will have a type of placement named but no specific placement - although where LAs name MS as type, they should normally name a specific placement.

That is normal for pre-action letters, I’m afraid. Some charge far more. SOSSEN do them cheaper. You could get on their waiting list. Although some LAs sometimes ignore now because they know if they ignore parents still then need a legal aid firm with capacity to take their case. It kicks the can down the road. Some advocates will do them cheaper. However, the same applies to them even more so, IME.

I can write my own. As can DH. We mostly don’t because it is pointless. My LA ignore. They laugh and say good luck.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden this is very helpful but also very depressing.

So the LA can just continue to ignore us for as long as possible in the hope we can't afford to continue down the legal route...

@LittlePickleHead JR proceedings themselves would be in DS’s name, therefore he can be eligible for legal aid in his own right. The pre-action letter would be in your name, so legal aid for that is only possible if you are eligible for it. If you can’t afford a pre-action letter elsewhere, get on SOSSEN’s list. You could try contacting your LA’s monitoring officer. It doesn’t always work, but sometimes contacting MOs prompt action.

Hi everyone 👋🏼 just reading through the draft plan (having argued for 2.5 years to get one!). The draft has left out some parts of section E and section F from the reports (for example it has left out all of the section E and F parts in the SLT report!). My question is what happens next? I will point out in my comments on the draft that these bits need to be included, but will this delay the plan being issued? I am happy to go to tribunal (again) if necessary but I really don’t want to postpone the plan being put in place as even the parts that are in there will be helpful. Thanks

Highlighting the amendments required doesn’t have to delay finalising and it isn’t a lawful excuse for the LA breaching the statutory timescales.

The LA may or may not agree to any or all of your proposed amendments. Don’t be surprised if they don’t agree. If the LA is refusing to amend following your representations, try not to get drawn into a prolonged back and forth (some people do this for sometimes for months and months on end with the LA still not amending to a satisfactory standard). You can still try to work with the LA to settle the outstanding disputed content, but it means you aren’t delaying finalising for a long time.

You can’t appeal section E directly. You can request consequential amendments if necessary.

Contact schools that have been consulted or who you suspect have/will be consulted so they have the full picture.

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden so do you mean if they don’t accept amendments, it can be finalised and we can still work to resolve disputed content?

I will ask the school for their views too.

Don’t rely on the school’s views. Many schools don’t understand SEN law &/or are biased in favour of what is best for the school.

If the LA doesn’t agree to some or all the amendments you propose, the EHCP can be finalised (and should be because them not agreeing to your proposed amendments isn’t a lawful excuse for breaching the timescales) but you can still continue a dialogue with the LA (some are more receptive than others at this). Just don’t let your right of appeal lapse.

Hey all. We’ve had a verbal feedback session following EP for DD, 8, who had a diagnosis of dyslexia and slow processing, we suspected other needs. For context DD is very well behaved and compliant at school, bright (general ability 95th centile vocab 91st centile) but has been struggling academically (grammar 5th centile reading comprehension 2nd centile, reading was 1y 7 months behind when she was assessed for dyslexia). The EP observed the slow processing as her primary academic challenge, he also mentioned sensory seeking behavior, feels she is masking, anxiety, language processing delays, fatigue, social difficulties. I feel like he and the rest of the clinic (she also had OT and SALT as part of a multi disciplinary assessment) feel she is autistic and is masking.
My question is about the EHCP process. Is getting an autism diagnosis going to significantly increase her chances of getting an EHCP and therefore the support she needs? If it’s truly needs based rather than diagnosis I feel the reports we have describe the needs quite well, and while I am open minded about the idea she might be autistic, I do worry about the impact on her of her receiving another diagnosis (she was so upset about being dyslexic and much as we have tried to frame it positively, she still doesn’t like people to know etc and it’s really affected her confidence and self worth which were already low). On the other hand, without the autism diagnosis, maybe we are at risk of LA saying she is ‘just dyslexic’ and doesn’t need one. Maybe they will say that even with an autism diagnosis tbh as I guess she’d probably categorised as what they used to call ‘high functioning’ ie the category of autistic kids they are trying to make it harder to access EHCPs. Any thoughts welcome! I guess we will probably need to pursue a diagnosis in the end, I am just not sure her mental health can take another huge ‘thing’ to process just now and clearly it’s not something we could keep from her.

Hello all, poking my head in, thanks @Needlenardlenoofor pointing me in your direction!

I'm at the very beginning of the ehcp process, for DS with ASD who will be starting School in September, but I'm surrounded by people who aren't hugely supportive in the form of ex-H and my own family, one won't even acknowledge his diagnosis and the other says I'm being pessimistic and he doesn't need an EHCP so I feel like I'm somewhat on my own with it all! I have a meeting at school tomorrow about my older DD (not diagnosed but also lilely ND, her dad is putting up barriers to getting her assessed ) so I might see if they can reassure me that it's not a bad thing to get rolling. I might also talk to nursery, they've been fantastic and really on it and obviously know him best in a non-home setting so might be able to comment on whether they think he will need one or not.

I think I get confused by the concept that they have to have needs that cant be met with existing measures/funding, but as yet I've got no idea what the school would be doing as a baseline, they are fantastic with the SEN kids in my daughter's class but I obviously have no idea if that is 'standard' or not!

Welcome @TGN101. I commented on your thread under another name.

For an EHCNA, you only need to show a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. Anything else is unlawful. You do not have to show DS definitely needs an EHCP. You do not have to show the setting has already spent £6k. You can even do it by showing needs aren’t properly understood. You can do it when needs are being met, but they are only met because the setting is providing support that isn’t typically available at an SEN support level. You can also do it when the setting could do more, but won’t. Your DS meets the legal test for an EHCNA.

Don’t be put off if the nursery and your DD’s school tries to put you off. Unfortunately, some schools and nurseries incorrectly tell parents their DC doesn’t need or won’t get an EHCP. I would request an EHCNA yourself.

@Bearlionfalcon the assessments already undertaken will provide you with more than enough evidence to meet the legal threshold to issue. That doesn’t guarantee the LA will agree to issue. LAs act unlawfully all the time. A diagnosis isn’t going to guarantee they issue either and, IMO, won’t increase the chances in your case. The professionals you have used are good. Their evidence will be strong.

Not to do with the issuing itself, but one exception to the based on needs element is if you want to pursue a placement at certain ASD SS. Some ASD SS only admit DC with a diagnosis. Others admit DC awaiting assessment, with traits, suspected ASD, similar profiles. For the latter, you shouldn’t have a problem.

Diagnosis is important, IMO, but not because it is going to increase the chances of getting an EHCP in your case.

For us, diagnosis was important so we knew what we were dealing with and it helped us as parents to find better strategies.

It also turned out to be quite empowering for DH, who finally understood himself and some of his difficulties better.

I felt it made school take us more seriously - they were always kind, supportive and helpful, but there was definitely a feeling that "Oh they have paperwork now."

But it was a private school and so I'm not sure that's a guide to anything, as state primaries generally have more experience with SEN, or at least, certain types of SEN. But they did have resources to put in more support (some of which we were billed extra for of course).

My mum and sister weren't terribly supportive and my mum said some rude things about "labels" but I'm afraid after the diagnosis I had a good hard look at my family of origin and thought well just because YOU would rather push things under the carpet, doesn't mean I have to...

Thanks for the advice @Needlenardlenoo and @thatsnotmygarden … I think we will get the diagnostic assesment at some stage to be honest but I just have a gut feeling it would be too much for DD to take on board right now. The multidisciplinary assesment was a lot - for her and us and the school - and on top of the many questionnaires and assesses I had to ask them to accomodate I’m now asking them to support us in an eHCPNA application - they have so so many kids with SEND to support and I just think maybe what we have done so far is enough for now. She is only 8 so I do feel we have time and it’s good that her needs are now a bit better understood at least

Hi all, I've tried calling IPSEA over a week but can't get through ATM.

School are leading on EHCP for my 13 year old in mainstream. Ed psych have already been in and assessed. School arranged all this.

Son diagnosed Autistic, ADHD, three years ago. Pronounced tics. I am not main carer as have ongoing health challenges. Comms with other parent is currently very difficult.

I want to understand exactly what the agenda is here where school actively lead like this. ( I'm being somewhat distanced from school and requests for particular info are not being given)

I was sent a document from school to support the application - with 3 questions, what works in school, what doesn't basically. There's so much more to this. I have relentlessly researched what a good parental statement looks like. I have compiled something based on strengths and weakness under the 4 strands.

Is it important to talk about background and history.

I do fear that a FII narrative has been subtly planted. I have overt accusations of Mental illness by ex. This has led me to think how much detail should I go into regarding myself, my physical illnesses etc. I fear a behavior problem narrative could be seen as the issue instead of accommodating the ND issues. I believe therapeutic support would be helpful for child and want to highlight this. Understanding that there is stress there and environmental stress. But, this is not the cause of all the detentions imo. It's being ND.

I am low on capacity with very significant challenges in managing my own conditions atm. I can't afford a fight.

How much depth in this situation is right for my part ( parent statement) in support of school EHCP application?