EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

I have now received a copy of the working document from the LA. As far as I can see, there are no amendments in it at the moment. I am assuming that once the LA has sent it's response then the amendments will begin?
The main sticking point is the lack of OT provision - they have not done an assessment and the email with the working document says they do not plan to do one. So we are at stalemate. DD is due an NHS OT appointment in the next few weeks, as we were told that the only way to get evidence that she needs an OT assessment is to get her referred by the GP and for them to then document that she needs OT provision. Initially they rejected her referral but when I actually spoke to someone about her challenges they reversed the decision. I am assuming that once we have this, we will have evidence to take back to the LA to get an assessment done.

What do I need to do with the working document?

Make your proposed amendments to the WD and send v2 back to the LA. It will/should continue to go back and forth. You can compare versions in Word.

You can ask SENDIST to direct the LA to seek advice and information. However, there is no guarantee SENDIST will agree. Even if they do, it doesn’t guarantee a good report. Have you considered an independent assessment? If you can’t afford it and you aren’t eligible for legal aid, have you looked at charity funding, e.g. Parents in Need?

Has anyone had this situation before. Finally got a draft plan out of the LA with watered down recommendations eg “calming activities” to be provided no detail of what that should be, provision missing from their own EP and private reports, I’ve requested to meet which they are trying to avoid at all costs I sent the plan back with amendments which they are “following up with their EP” even though I told them 6 weeks ago I was not happy with it. They have now told me I have to go and negotiate with the school how they are going to meet OT needs- it’s not ongoing therapy but needs input before transitions and when distressed, access to quiet spaces which will need a staff member etc. I told the LA they are responsible for outlining the provision and quantifying it and specifying it as per case law and if they are not following the recommendations they need to tell me why not? but is there anything else I can do? I suspect we will not have a final plan before the end of term and I am concerned school might say they can’t meet needs

It is a common tactic for LAs to say it is down to the school to decide. As is inadequate wording in the EHCP.

Other than remind the LA of their duties, both in terms of the advice and information sought and also linked to that in terms of the wording in the EHCP, there isn’t much you can do. Have you contacted the EP directly? If they finalise an inadequate EHCP, you will be able to appeal.

Is the school wholly independent? If not, they can be named even if they object and the bar to prove one of the exceptions is higher than LAs and some schools admit.

What week are you on?

Week 20 was weeks ago, they have apparently gone back to the EP to clarify the questions I have asked, i will keep challenging until they sort it out or make them meet with me to discuss. I have commented all over their plan eg what ratio will this be 1:1,2:1 what skills will staff have, consistent adult is not clear enough etc. I have already made it clear I will appeal but realistically dates are so far away it could all fall apart before we get to any appeal; there is an extra TA to meet all the additional needs in the class and a number of children needing support hence trying to get clarity about ratios and what is actually being provided and funded- it’s not independent school think they are just pleased he is coming with a plan but I don’t think they get a sufficient overview of the level of need from the plan that has been produced.

If 20 weeks was ages ago, email the Director of Children’s Services threatening JR. If that doesn’t work, you need a pre-action letter. SOSSEN can help with this, but there is a wait, so you might want to look elsewhere. Then, if that fails, JR proceedings will work.

Hi all, can I join? We heard today that our needs assessment application has been agreed and within a couple of hours of getting the email we had a call from social care asking us if we needed help at home or just with the educational side of things. It all caught me by surprise as I was at work and hadn’t read the letter properly yet.

How do I prepare for calls and approaches for the needs assessments? I know I should not feel this way but I feel so lucky that they agreed to assess that I want to be ready and advocate for DS and not be caught on the hop again.

Assessment is going to happen over the summer which is not great timing wise as DS is moving from primary to secondary.

I need to contact the case worker as they got DS’s DOB wrong on the letter. It also says to contact them in terms of any additional professionals to contact. Who should I say? Would an OT come under ‘medical’?They are not on the initial list and DS has some sensory and food issues that I think need to be looked at.

I so don’t want to get this wrong!

OT comes under regulation 6(1)(h). It depends on DS’s needs but that can also cover SALT, physio, clinical psychologist.

Be aware, the summer holidays is one of the exceptions to the timescales when the LA request information from the school during the period it is closed (starting 1 week before closer and finishing 1 week before reopening) and it isn’t practicable for the LA to comply.

For social care assessments, this booklet is helpful.

More generally, it can help to make a timeline of events/any previous assessments, etc. Also think about making notes on things like developmental history, needs/difficulties, likes/dislikes/what makes DS happy, what support is already in place, what has previously been tried, what worked/didn’t work, what is needed but unable to be delivered, what is important to DS/you and what is important for DS, how DS communicates/how others communicate with him, aspirations, what you think DS needs, a bit about family/any other important people in DS’s life.

It can also help to write a list of questions to ask the professional such as what assessments will be undertaken, what observations will be done (e.g. structured and unstructured times, with peers, with adults), will they meet with DS 1:1, how long they will spend with DS. Ask if they will make recommendations for the need for further assessments where they believe they are necessary - sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t.

Finish by asking them to ensure the report is detailed, specified and quantified and requesting the report is sent to you at the same time as it is sent to the LA - you may receive push back on this, but if you request it, it should be done.

Thanks this is really helpful! Things are actually moving quickly and we meet the ed psych next week at school who will observe DS in class after our parent meeting. I’ll make a list of things to ask and raise with her.

I plan to ask the school to for a copy of their report at the same time as it’s submitted.

Sorry to keep coming back for advice @thatsnotmygarden but I am not sure what to do next.

The Tribunal vacated our hearing date this week and sent another order giving the LA another week to respond to any outstanding issues in section B and F of the plan. It is a phase transfer appeal and I am conscious that the LA won't name the school in I until the appeal is complete.

It does say on the order that we can object, I am not sure what form to send to do this. I am also not sure as to whether to send further amendments on the working document now to the LA as I didn't send anything back to their latest version once we requested a hearing on the papers.

Continue with the WD process now the LA is being allowed to participate.

Unfortunately, while you can object (you don’t need to use a form), especially pointing out the time pressure with it being a phase transfer, LAs are often given chance after chance to comply. This is why I warned you there was still a chance the LA would be reinstated. SENDIST prefers to have as much information as possible when deciding a case. In some circumstances, barring also increases the chance of the LA being able to challenge the FtT’s decision.

I’m 2 weeks post annual review meeting. KS1 to KS2 transfer. In the meeting we discussed review of targets, progress/outcomes (by the end of KS1) on the plan statutory review form.

He is currently not on track for 6 of the 10 targets - yet the general feeling in the meeting is that DS has made of progress this year.

The targets where he has made progress have specific criteria e.g. ‘8 out of 10 occasions.
The targets where he has not made progress I think are v subjective e.g. “DC will develop his functional communication so he can communicate wants and needs in all situations”. We agreed this is woolly/complex to measure so it’s now changing to “when he needs help, is too hot, wants a drink or needs the toilet”. I still want to add an ‘80% of the time’.

Is this ok do you think?? Can I insist on changing the wording of the target?

It’s the section E outcomes and I’m afraid it’s only now that I’m looking at them and thinking they have always been pretty woolly (apart from 2 which have 80% accuracy and have been assessed carefully by a SALT therapist)

Ok - I’ve read up and can see that the outcomes were never written as ‘SMART’ guidance apart from the 2 DC is on track for. I hope I can rewrite them.

Section E contains Outcomes, rather than targets. Outcomes are the result of provision, whereas targets are an aim. Sometimes LAs need reminding of this.

Outcomes should be SMART. They should also vary in length of time. Some will be short term, some mid term and some long term. Progress can be made even when Outcomes haven’t been met, so not meeting Outcomes doesn’t necessarily contradict the school saying progress has been made. At this point in DS’s education, it would be unusual to meet all the Outcomes at the same time.

The content of EHCPs is taken from the evidence. You need to look at the evidence. You can raise concerns. If you don’t feel you did this during the review meeting, you can contact the LA now. If the LA proposes to amend, you will be able to make representations about the Outcomes.

You can’t appeal Outcomes directly. However, if you appeal following the conclusion of the AR, you can request consequential amendments to E if necessary.

Thank you @thatsnotmygarden

Yes, he’s been assessed as making progress towards outcome but not on track.

And you’re right it’s outcome, not target. Thank you - I didn’t realise the difference.

I think the issue is the distinction between long/short term target - ensuring that the long term is SMART.
E.g. Can I put ‘by the end of KS1 DS to focus attention in 80% of learning experiences/for 15 minutes’ rather than ‘DS will be able to engage in all learning experiences for an increasingly longer period of time’ which is pretty subjective/unachievable?

I’d say his termly short term outcomes are ‘SMART’ - the long term ones are not. He achieves his short term outcomes, but is not on track for long term.

Short/long term outcome that should read!!

Yes, some of the Outcomes should be by the end of KS1 DS will… and then continue to be SMART. But, since the content is taken from the evidence, you need the evidence to be right.

So LA are working on amendments to part F I have requested but found out today they are basing funding banding in information in Section B! Clearly have no intention of funding what they need to even if I can get them to specify the support in section F. parental preference school have said no to consultation on the basis LA are not funding what is needed to meet needs. They also said they will end up as the school they go to as LA won’t want to fund specialist placement but I am concerned the LA may go on a hunt around for any old mainstream school to meet needs; I am equally concerned they might all try to say they can’t meet needs as there are distressed behaviours that are physical towards other children- not enough to secure highest funding bandings according to LA policies but can they use this to says it’s not compatible with the education of others for him to go there?

Another question sorry. Section E.

It was brought up in the annual review meeting about the outcomes being too subjective/woolly. It’s only now that I’m finding out that they should have been SMART.

The SENCO wants to take out one long term outcome (that he did achieve) as it was ‘too short term an outcome’. I now disagree, as it was SMART.

A few others have been slightly clarified but are still not ‘SMART’ IMO.

These amendments have been sent two weeks post review, but I disagree with them.

The LA make a decision in 4 weeks?

It’s currently week 3.

DS’s long term outcomes are woolly/subjective. Do they need readdressing/can they be readdressed (seems like this could be tricky) - could this impact any decision making for maintaining/amending plan - if his outcomes were never really properly written/assessed in an objective way.

@RareAzureBee focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F. If it is, then the LA is responsible for it. That includes ensuring there is sufficient funding. And it can be enforced.

The reason your parental preference has objected wouldn’t stand up in an appeal. The LA can still name them. Funding is between the school and LA, not your concern. The bar to prove incompatible with the efficient education of others is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It is more than It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”.

You also have a right to a mainstream education unless it is incompatible with the efficient education of others, and* *there are no reasonable steps could take to avoid this. This is a very, very high bar.

@BangerMasher the information circulated within 2 weeks of the AR meeting aren’t the proposed amendments. The LA must inform you if they are going to amend or not within 4 weeks, and if they are, send the amendment notice at the same time. The Outcomes can be amended, and should be if necessary, but the content of the EHCP is based on the evidence. It would be unusual for DS to have already achieved a long-term Outcome. If he has, it isn’t long term (or was written a long time ago). The Outcomes need to be updated if DS has achieved them.

Thank you @thatsnotmygarden

Yes - it’s not that he’s achieved the outcomes, it’s that he’s making progress but not on track. So what exactly does he need to achieve, by when and how do we know. I don’t know how that assessment has been made when the outcome itself is so non specific - and possibly never achievable.

The one he has ‘achieved’ is therefore probably too short term - but is written in a SMART way. The SENCO proposes just deleting that outcome altogether as it was never should have been a long term outcome.
And then I feel like the outcomes were initially written in a rush, the annual review form was completed in a rush and it feels a bit ‘what I felt in my waters’ rather than based on an accurate assessment.

The advice and information circulated beforehand should help you understand. If the Outcome has been achieved, the SENCO is right that it needs amending (and it is a moot point, but they are also probably right that it wasn’t a true long term target). Any Outcomes that are not SMART need amending, too. But you need evidence.

Has anyone any experience of this?

1. Child is out of school for 11 months, school applies for an EHCP as they can't meet need
2. Everyone agrees draft EHCP which says Specialist Provision for a year,
3. The LA consults with a great SP
4. They offer a place
5. The LA then refuses to fund and sends the child back to the mainstream that asked for the EHCP because they couldn't meet need

We don't know what to do next. The SP place will disappear soon. Tribunal and all that will add another year of sitting at home with EBSA.

Anyone got any experience of how to convince an LA to fund your child's place?

Firstly, a draft should not state a placement or type of placement. Section I must be blank in a draft. Although the how F is worded may indicate a type of placement.

It is common for LAs to name MS even when SS is required. It is why so many have to appeal to secure SS.

Has the LA finalised? If so, appeal. Appeal B&F as well as I. Don’t bother with mediation. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST. You will be able to request an expedited hearing on the basis DD is out of school.

Is the SS wholly independent? If not, you don’t need an offer of a place. They can be named even if they object. If it is wholly independent, speak to the school to try to convince them not to withdraw the offer. If that doesn’t work, ask the school how long the offer will remain on the table. If the deadline is several months away but not long enough for a normal appeal timescale, you can use this to request an expedited hearing before the offer is removed - this isn’t guaranteed to work but sometimes does.

In the meantime, is section 19 provision in place?