EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

If the LA amends the placement, it should be in the final amended EHCP.

If the final names a type of placement but not a placement, you should appeal. Alongside that, ask the LA how they intend to fulfil their duties. If it names mainstream as type, remind them case law dictates they should normally name a particular placement too.

If the current school is no longer named in the EHCP, DS won’t attend.

You can push the LA to stick with emails.

Hello again, I am waiting for our draft EHCP and our caseworker called today to say it would be with us soon. I said I wanted to name another local (mainstream) school as it is much smaller, less chaotic, more nurturing than the current school DS 11 would go to when he starts Secondary in September. She said they will discuss at a meeting today but it is unlikely they would support me naming this as want evidence the school he would go to is unsuitable i.e. he would need to go there first, we prove that it isn't suitable (it is huge, 7 form entry as opposed to 2 with the other school and it is this we are concerned about) and only then if we find evidence, could name it and he be moved. He is Autistic, He hates change. He wants to know concrete plans of where he is going and when. To have him potentially have to start at the other school and then go through the stress of moving schools would be hugely detrimental. Thanks

Unless your preference is wholly independent, the LA must name it unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

Unfortunately, the LA may refuse and force you to appeal. If they did that, it wouldn’t be sorted by September.

Some good news, the draft is going to panel this week and LA have now been in touch with parental preference school (not independent/S41).

It's a race to the finish, with the end of term in sight. And of course the LA could do a number of things in the next few weeks to scupper and delay but at least we feel like we have done as much as possible to advocate.

Draft came back to us very little altered to the previous final. Looks like they have done about 2 hours work on it at most, new needs not in B. They are outsourcing the work to us, as per.

@mollyminniemo totally understand (ASC here too) and it's just not cricket to leave DC in the lurch about where they will attend in Sept. Fingers crossed for you.

I'm wondering if we will somehow be left without a school for DS to go to, he seems caught in the middle. As we both work away from home, it's just not possible. He's got to go somewhere.

Hi everyone, I've filled out my LA's form to do a parental request for an EHCP assessment. Does anyone know if you should attach evidence? And if so, is it worth waiting until the results of the EP assessment we have booked for my DD in August? Thank you

Yes you can send any evidence you like, the more evidence they may agree to assess first time round- but some just won’t agree to assessment for no lawful reason but just to delay. Some will try to say you need more evidence which if you have already sent it is harder for them to argue. In terms of EP assessment in August I was advised by our private EP to hold off assessment until the LA had done their own EP report and produced a plan so they knew what they had to work with- but the LA had agreed to assess in my case and depends what you want to use the EP report for- if it is potentially tribunal you might run the risk of needing an additional report by the time you have got through the EHCP assessment process as it could be seen by court as too old by the time you get there. However if they refuse to assess you might want an EP report to try and get them to do that it’s a hard call knowing when to book them in and costly if you need further reports. Sure someone with more knowledge will be along to reply to you soon.

@AllGonePeteTong1 attach the evidence you have. I wouldn’t delay waiting for further evidence. You can send additional information later.

A report done now shouldn't be too old for any potential Tribunal process unless it becomes out of date because needs etc. change. The new practice directions coming into force later this month state reports no more than 3 years old will be accepted.

If the LA agrees to assess and you have an existing report you, the LA and the report writer agree is sufficient for the EHCNA, the LA must not seek new advice and information. However, LAs often claim it is insufficient in order to be able to water down provision.

Unless money is no issue or you have already committed money to the assessment, I wouldn’t seek an EP assessment now. You may decide further down the line you need to focus your money on an OT report or SALT report.

Thank you @thatsnotmygarden l really appreciate the advice. We have already paid a deposit for the EP. The main reason we're getting is because DD's dyslexia assessment said there might be a visual processing disorder which should be investigated and DD (10) is getting increasingly frustrated that she can't read independently (she can read out loud, just not in her head, and gets tired after a couple of pages). I didn't want to delay getting it. The EP said if I decide to go down the tribunal route later I can top this assessment up to an EHCP ready one without having to do a whole new one (if that makes sense)

@AllGonePeteTong1 there are some NHS services who assess for visual processing difficulties. It is worth requesting a referral. Make sure the EP is still going to write a report that is properly detailed, specified and quantified. Otherwise it is useless.

Thanks thatsnotmygarden + Alltheyearround x

Hi all, it's been a while since I e posted...too busy sending multiple emails to the LA.

Got a phone call Friday to say we are being given a personal budget.

It will cover an online school and a distance learning course, plus sundries like textbooks.

It's the most basic package they could get away with, £6000 ish.

They are paying directly for a mentor through tuition extra for three hours a week, starting before the summer and continuing through the holiday.

They've also said they will cover exam entries.

However they said it would be only to the end of year 11.

Don't have any more information than that currently.

I'm ready to appeal, as I only have three weeks left to get it submitted.

I think my next steps are to get the details, tell them I want the EHCP amended to reflect the new provision, and challenge them on the 'end of year 11' statement, as I'm pretty sure they can't do that? Her review is in march, she's had no school since the start of year 10, if I do get her to start online school then there's no way she's ready to take even two exams in year 11, not if I'd have to find her an exam centre before Christmas potentially, she's got access arrangements.

I'm delighted they've finally taken notice and that my constant harassment and complaining has paid off, but I don't trust them until it's in the EHCP. They think they'll shut me up and they can get away lightly.
Realistically the things they've offered are probably the maximum she can manage anyway but it's better to have a full package I think if she is then able to cope with more later on.

@thatsnotmygarden I'd really value your advice, I'm not entirely sure what to appeal on now, if I've only got three weeks and the EHCP isn't amended, I can just go ahead based on what it says now, but if they do amend it and state personal budget, then I guess I can only appeal on provision, not placement?

I'm so happy that we finally have something but I'm not resting on my laurels.

If section I is blank, just because the LA has agreed a PB doesn’t mean section I is blank, you appeal section B (special educational needs) and F (special educational provision). You may want to request consequential amendments to section E (outcomes) - you can’t appeal section E, but you can request consequential amendments. And you may want an extended appeal to appeal health and/or social care needs and provision (section C/G D/H).

If section I is not currently blank, you must also appeal section I.

If the LA concedes the appeal, that is fine but don’t miss the deadline.

Section F needs improving then the LA must fund it. The provision they have agreed needs to be in F. And there needs to be more provision - just because DD can’t access more now doesn’t mean she won’t by e.g. Feb next year. You also don’t mention therapeutic provision which DD needs. Nor equipment. Or professional time.

Exam centres would ultimately be the LA’s responsibility. Depending on the access arrangements required, Christmas may be far too late. Some types of access arrangements are booked up well before that at lots of exam centres who accept external candidates. Even for access arrangements that don’t have to be booked so far in advance, some centres need more time than Christmas to confirm access arrangements are required - at some centres this takes longer than when DC are on the roll of a school/college. Tuition Extra is an Exam Centre. Have you spoken to them?

Just to give you an example, DS1&3 sat 2 GCSEs this year, they were arranged last academic year. The plan is for DS1 to sit 4 GCSE/IGCSEs and the FSMQ next summer and DS3 8 GCSE/IGCSEs and the FSMQ which are being arranged now because they need home invigilation and a myriad of other access arrangements.

EOTAS/EOTIS/C can continue post 16. However, provision in EHCPs is only ever secured until the next review.

If DD is currently in Y10 her next review shouldn’t be in March 26. There should be a phase transfer review before then because the post 16 phase transfer EHCP should be finalised by 31st March.

Thank you @thatsnotmygarden .

I currently states mainstream, no school named.

I think the tuition extra mentoring is meant to cover therapeutic input, but it isn't enough.

I've not spoken to them yet as only got the phone call friday. Hopefully this week.

They can't say it finishes in year 11, like you say, that depends on her AR, but it'll be too late then to decide if she can do GCSEs. My gut feeling is she's not going to be ready for next year.

I've brought up the review date and they just kept saying it has to be 10 months after the EHCP is finalised. I can call for an early one though?

I'll do the appeal this week based on what it says right now. Can I mention the offer of provision in the forms but that I'm appealing as the EHCP doesn't reflect the provision stated? And that whats been offered is not covering all the needs and provision in the EHCP?

You need to appeal I as well. It needs to be blank. No type of placement and no placement.

You can include the offered provision not currently in F. As you say, the mentoring isn’t enough therapeutic provision. DD needs some direct provision with OT/SALT/some kind of MH therapy. DD also needs some form of physical activity/exercise and IIRC physio (and potentially something like rebound therapy &/or hydro/aquatherapy). Even if she can’t access that all now, it needs to be there to work towards. There also needs to be indirect provision from those professionals too. And yes, explain that it isn’t sufficient.

You can request an early review. The LA doesn’t have to agree. But they must hold a review in time to finalise for the phase transfer deadline. That is not optional. And they can be forced to. It is important the review meeting is held in good time so the deadline can be met to allow you time to appeal if you need to.

Thanks again. I'll start the forms and I have someone who helped me check the draft who can look over them before I send them. I'll also email the caseworker to tell them I'm still appealing and that if the provision is increased to meet all the provision in the EHCP and it's amended to reflect EOTAS then I'll consider withdrawing it down the line, also to say that the annual review date is too late and that they can't state it has to end in year 11, it's got to be in there that the GCSE provision through the online school is ongoing until she can achieve the outcome of a few GCSEs, which probably won't be next summer.

The exams arrangements need to be in there too? One of the needs is for her to be able to sit a few GCSEs as she feels able to, so they can just put that in provision?

Professional time, is that from the mentors and the online school teachers to prepare reports for AR?

Also they've offered £300 for sundries, but I'll ask that they put in the provision travel expenses for exams centres? Also specify funding for equipment?

Is there a section of an act I can quote for the review needing to be in January or February, not march?

Oh and sorry, @thatsnotmygarden questions...

Physical therapy, if it's not been directly stated in provision, can I still request it? I asked for physio on the original PB request. Two professional reports stated she needs it for HSD and CFS.

She's got an appointment with UCLH TRACCs programme in October, they'll offer something to support her with those and it's a long appointment including psychotherapist and physio input, so if there's a report I can use that for appeal also.

If the LA concede, you shouldn’t withdraw, they should concede and there should be a consent order.

At reviews, although provision shouldn’t be amended if it is still reasonably required, the LA won’t state the provision is until GCSEs are achieved. Provision in EHCPs is only secure until the next review.

February would be too late to hold a phase transfer review. Unless it will be held at the very beginning of January, January will be too late too. Most are held in the autumn term. The 31st March deadline is in Reg 18 of the SEN Regs 2014. You can see the review process, timescales and legislation that applies here.

Exam provision & EAA (in DD’s case probably an assessment for them in line with JCQ’s guidelines and the assessment outcome followed) should be included, but a specific exam centre won’t be named in F.

Professional time covers lots of things e.g. writing reports for ARs, preparing for AR, attending AR, preparing for/attending MDTs, planning, liaising with other professionals, time for training, someone to oversee and co-ordinate the package…

They won’t include funding for equipment in F. Equipment should be in F and, if provided via PB, the PB included J.

Transport mostly isn’t included in F. It depends on the specific of the case. However, the LA would still be responsible for it.

So we received our EP report (submitted as late evidence to Tribunal court with LA agreement) which is very comprehensive. Only B and F left to dispute at Tribunal as LA have agreed with our preference for section I. Tribunal court have barred LA from proceedings due to them not adhering to deadlines set by the court. Hearing was meant to be next week, but the Court are offering to decide on the papers without LA being able to be involved and if we still want a video hearing it would now be delayed (which we don't want as we need the EHCP finalised for new school to get things in place).

LA are trying to get us to agree to working document with amendments taken from EP report and then a consent order. I don't know if they can do this if they are barred.

I also don't know which option is best or if they are both still an option.

Can anyone with more understanding help explain and advise?

It isn’t uncommon for proceedings to be heard on the papers if the LA is barred.

Have all your proposed amendments been agreed? If not, it is a moot point.

When the LA is barred, assuming they aren’t reinstated which frequently happens (and I’m sorry to say there is still a chance the LA will be reinstated), they can’t assume to take any further part in proceedings - SENDIST need not consider further submissions and may summarily determine any or all issues (Rule 8(9) of The Tribunal Procedure (First-tier Tribunal) (Health, Education and Social Care Chamber) Rules 2008). However, SENDIST allows them to concede - after all, not allowing them to concede would be illogical for all concerned.

The LA haven't agreed all the amendments we suggested no. If they are then unbarred at this stage and agree the amendments after we have agreed to do the hearing on the papers what happens next? The LA are still trying currently to get us to sign a consent order based on the amendments they have agreed.

@Icantpeopleanymore sorry I realise I didn’t answer your other question. Provision needs to be in section F. That includes physio. It can be part of your appeal. Just like all proposed amendments, you need evidence to support it. Not just that it is needed but detailed, specified and quantified evidence. You are highly unlikely to get a PB for it if it isn’t in F.

@Choconuttolata if the LA hasn’t agreed to all the necessary proposed amendments, ignore the pressure from the LA. Simply inform them you won’t be agreeing and will be continuing with the appeal because there is still outstanding disputed content. The LA is trying their luck.

If the LA doesn’t concede but is reinstated, the case will either be heard on the papers or relisted for an oral hearing.

If the LA concede, you don’t need a hearing. (Sometimes if LAs concede very late in the day, you still have to attend a hearing but if your oral HD has been vacated that wouldn’t apply.)

Thanks @thatsnotmygarden

I contacted the Tribunal back to do a hearing on the papers. The legal officer from the LA then sent their latest version with their amendments to them after this point.

Do you know if the hearing date is vacated for a hearing on the papers at the next available date roughly how long it is normally for the Tribunal to do a hearing on the papers and then make a decision?

Just conscious that some of the EP suggested provision in section F would need to be in place for September start in secondary, although the named special school do have the EP report already.

TIA

Ignore the LA, if they are barred, SENDIST doesn’t have to consider their submission.

Usually within a few weeks, but I haven’t had an oral hearing vacated for a paper hearing in the last few weeks, so I couldn’t tell you where SENDIST is up to with cases in your situation.

It is pushing it for having a finalised amended EHCP in 8 weeks for the beginning of September. That would be the case even if you had the oral hearing next week - they say it can take up to 10 working days for the Order, but some are waiting 15 working days or even longer. Once you have an Order, the LA has 5 weeks to amend the content of the EHCP. And that assumes the LA complies and you don’t have to chase.

The LA have told us even though they have agreed to placement in preferred school and informed the Tribunal of that earlier on in the process (originally appeal was B, F and I, but only I is left to be heard) that they won't name it on the EHCP until it is finalised which won't be until the Tribunal does the hearing on the papers.

Sorry only B and F left to be heard.