EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@Cinnamoncupcake I would think longer term. Don’t only focus on reception. Do you see mainstream working in Y1? Reception and Y1 are quite different.

The educational psychologist asked me and preschool in separate meetings this question and we both said the same thing there is to much that needs working on before she is even going to be able to learn to answer what year 1 would be like for her because right now I don’t ever see her sitting down working and coping with the demands of school. I don’t think she would qualify for a special school though either. She also asked about if she didn’t get a ehcp and I said that she wouldn’t last a full year in foundation without a ehcp and full time 1-1.

I don’t think she would qualify for a special school though either.

Why do you think this? (Genuine question, not being funny.)

It’s mostly based on other children from her preschool who have gone to a special school, they have all been clear to the eye that they have special needs, they had the same 1-1 workers as my daughter has now but they was more hands on with them whereas with my daughter they need to watch her to stop things happening and give her space, she has a strong pda profile so it comes across as she is very naughty not autistic to look at. Maybe it’s just me because I’m used to her as she is but maybe others see her differently seen as she got diagnosed at her first paediatrician appointment.

Thank you those chart will come in handy, I really think she is ready to potty train because if we have a bath she will by herself get her toilet seat and stool and go on the toilet before her bath but the demand of being told to go to the toilet and having something other than a nappy on with clothes has been a nightmare, I’ve tried normal knickers, seamless knickers and boxers, I’ve even tried nothing on but she won’t wear clothes without a nappy on, she’s a big girl for her age so these pull ups won’t fit her for much longer. In the summer I let her wear nothing and she just held her wee. She’s just been referred to bowel and bladder so I’m hoping the appointment will come around quickly.

@Cinnamoncupcake don’t worry about DD outgrowing the pull ups. There are slips/pants/pads for older DC. I have a teen who isn’t reliably toilet trained.

I wouldn't base your decision on how other DC who have moved to SS present. DC who attend SS can present very differently, and different special schools can be very different places/cater to different needs. Have you looked at all the SS within travelling distance (the max recommended travel time is typically considered 45mins for primary but many travel further and for some 45mins would be too much), including ones out of area and independent ones? What you have written doesn’t mean you couldn’t get SS if that was your preference.

I appreciate it is a minute snapshot, but from your posts I don’t see MS working long term for DD.

I haven’t really looked at any special schools but I do know my closest one is 35 minutes away, I think tomorrow I will call a few schools and see if we can visit next week so I’m ready if the draft comes at week 14, will they recommend on the draft what school setting would be suitable? And would it be best to take my daughter with me to visit these schools?

@Cinnamoncupcake the draft must not state a placement &/or type of placement. Section I must be blank. I wouldn’t take DD with you. Be aware some SS won’t allow visits until after a draft has been issued. Some won’t even allow visits until they have been consulted.

Ok thank you so much for all your help, I’m so glad your on mumsnet your so helpful. We will be on week 14 next week so I will wait and see what the coming weeks bring, hopefully 🤞 a decent draft

Trying to work out what is best for ds1. The ehcp review decision that he doesn't need one means he is still floundering and will lack support when he moves.up to secondary. If we decide to home educate for now, does it affect the appeal? Tribunal dates are so far away that it is such a long time for him to be in limbo over support.

I am also annoyed with the process as a friend's child who has a lot of similarities to ds2, but is a lot more academic, has been granted special school and ds2 hasn't. They clearly aren't looking at the genuine need, because they both need alternatives to mainstream. It's all just about saying no to everything they can.

Is DS year 5 now @SprigatitoYouAndIKnow or year 6? If he's year 6, have you done the form to ask for the appeal to be done quicker as it's a phase transfer? I think it's SEN7.

We are getting DDs draft EHCP next week. The LA have sent us links to all special schools and SEN units. I'm cautiously optimistic this is a sign they aren't going to push us back to mainstream.

We have agreed notice provisions with her current independent school. The LA have confirmed they will arrange a tutor from thereafter until a school placement can be arranged. I was honestly expecting a big fight over this, and complications withdrawing her from her current placement, so I'm super relieved.

We are now over a year into this process, and I don't want to let myself believe we are all on the same side now as there have been so mamy fights to get to this point, but it actually does feel like we are on the same page just at this moment. Obviously I know this may not last, so I'm not counting my chickens but it has relieved the stress levels a bit.

Fingers crossed @TripleRocks! We got to this sort of stage last June.

Nearly two years of inactivity and hassle and then the EHCP was done and the school we wanted was named. I also had low trust at that point but DD is now in Feb of year 7 and everything is pretty much fine.

Year 5, so we need to pick secondary at the end of this year.

Big update here.

Edit : DS is 4yrs old. In Reception. Not compulsory school age till end of August being a summer born. But my choice for him to go to school.

So yesterday I had a phone call from the case coordinator for my DS Ehcp which is on its 3rd draft. I cant fault her, she was lovely and was very thorough going through what to expect etc.

This is where it went wrong. She tells me that when the plan is finalised, that MS with band 4 funding is what will be on the plan. Apparently this is and has been readily available for me to view on the ehc hub since they agreed to issue, on the 2nd Dec!

She directed me to where this would be and funnily enough, I have no such section on my decision tab. Nowhere on the hub does it say they will be naming MS .

At 2nd draft my DS current MS was consulted along with my named preferred SS. MS responded saying can't meet need, SS responded saying yes they can and can be named on the final plan.

Onwards to 3rd draft. I've directed her, quite curtly, to send a new consultation to my named preferred SS. She has done this but also sent consults out to THREE MS schools, none of which are my DS current setting . 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I've been told, numerous times, that my sons needs can't be met with the level of funding he's been awarded in a MS setting and the SS can meet this need on that funding level.

I'm just aghast how they are planning to completely disregard his needs. They haven't changed, he still needs this level of support if not more .

I'm lucky in that I've got someone ready to fight my corner for what's ahead. I'm fully prepared to get an emergency review AND go to appeal as i know that the two can run concurrently. If by some miracle the L.A then concede and name my preferred SS at emergency review then I will withdraw from appeal .

Why does this have to be so hard?

LAs are very sneaky with this "it's on the portal" stuff. I missed some important info when they changed from paper to portal (without saying) and again when their email alerts stopped working.

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow make a note to submit the SEN7 form on 1st September then. I assume tribunal is after that?

Apparently I was going to get email alerts with any updates. I only received the one update yesterday when she uploaded the 3rd draft.

I was under the impression that when at draft stage the school type cannot be named? Why is it im being told the type that will be named and I should be able to see this ?

Has someone made a fudge up and i should have not been made aware of this as this stage?

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow if you deregister and EHE, the appeal will continue. However, I wouldn’t EHE. If you do that, there is no incentive for the LA to concede. Crudely, whilst DS remains in the system, he is someone’s ‘problem’. If you EHE, it is easier for others to sweep DS’s needs under the carpet. If he can’t attend school, the LA has a duty to ensure he still receives a suitable, full-time education. But if you EHE, the LA will say you are making suitable alternative arrangements, thereby relieving them of this duty. If DS is out of school, you can request an expedited hearing.

The LA have sent us links to all special schools and SEN units.

@TripleRocks I wouldn’t rely on this list being all the possibilities. LAs often tell parents what they want them to know rather than the full information. They often miss possibilities in other LAs, and some independent schools and non-maintained special schools. Ask around locally, look on the local offer, search for schools here.

@Muvva1981 the draft must not state a placement or type of placement. See Section 38(5) of the Children and Families Act 2014.

You shouldn’t withdraw an appeal. The LA should concede. Different processes.

Don’t focus on funding. Focus on MS not being able to meet needs. The LA is responsible for the provision in EHCPs and this including ensuring there is sufficient funding.

Since the LA is over the timescales, I would push them to finalise. LAs can try to drag the prolonged back and forth out for months, frustrating your right of appeal. That doesn’t mean you still can’t continue to try to work with the LA on settling the disputed content/placement. What it does mean is months and months aren't wasted without any provision (because the provision in an EHCP draft doesn’t have to be provided until it is finalised) and without submitting an appeal.

"Please see attached email communication. I have omitted Case coordinator name. "

See this is why I'm so confused. I've now had the senco AND the case coordinator both tell me that mainstream will be named and I should see this information as it is. But I don't.
Have they made some almighty bodge up telling me this information before the finalised plan?
I won't be withdrawing from appeal. I'm actually, now I've had time to gather my thoughts as it were, going all the way.

@Muvva1981 I suggest you ask MNHQ to edit your post because you can see your name on the photograph.

Sadly, it isn’t uncommon for LAs to unlawfully decide the type of placement they are going to make before they have even sent parents the draft. It shouldn’t happen. It doesn’t mean you can’t state your preferred school is a special school. Once you have the finalised EHCP you can appeal. I would focus on pushing for the finalised EHCP.

After rewriting DS’s EHCP - I’m eventually getting some responses from the LA that’s it’s being worked on and I’ll get a response next week. They are overstretched and prioritising key stage transfers. His case worker is on long term sick leave.
If I demand, threaten the law, SEND tribunal etc - I’m thinking - what good will it do? They have no resources and then - I’ll be depleting more funding if I start a tribunal process?

If I’m demanding with someone who is already overstretched - will they just end up on long term sick leave too?
The school have agreed to
use the proposed provision map I wrote in the interim, and I can see already that DS is getting better support.

None of that is your concern @RibbyJumper. Being polite and persistent for things DC is legally entitled to is not being "demanding".

@RibbyJumper LA staffing issues aren’t your concern. Neither are their finances or other DC’s EHCPs. The two phase transfer deadlines come around at the same time every year. They aren’t something that has taken the LA by surprise. Sadly, DC whose parents know the law and can advocate for them get better support. It shouldn’t be that way, but isn’t going to change in the foreseeable future. If you give the LA an inch, they will take a mile because they will see they can get away with acting unlawfully.

Personally, I would push the LA to finalise ASAP. They have already dragged this out for months and months. The longer you leave it, if you then need to appeal, the longer it will be to a hearing. This is even more important if you would request an expedited hearing for any reason - there will be less availability once phase transfer appeals have been dealt with, so getting your request in sooner rather than later is beneficial. Plus the phase transfer excuse is the latest in a list of excuses they have used.

You can’t appeal to SENDIST until you have a finalised amended EHCP. Once you have a finalised amended EHCP, if it isn’t accurate, you should appeal. If you don’t, the provision the school is providing now doesn’t have to be continued. The school could stop it at any time and if you have then let the right of appeal lapse, you may not be able to appeal (sometimes it is possible to be granted leave to appeal out of time but it isn’t guaranteed especially when there isn’t a specific reason you are late). This would then leave DS without the support he needs. You would need to request an early review, which the LA may not agree to. If they don’t, there’s no right of appeal. You would have to either wait for the AR or request a reassessment of needs (which would come with the right of appeal if refused, but given the appeal timescales isn’t so helpful in this situation now).

How long would you give a school to sort out additional provision after an ehcp has been issued? No 121 to be recruited or anything but they are supposed to be arranging OT, additional maths sessions and a sort of SLT-lite.

I have chased once and was told the senco and class teacher were 'meeting to discuss' but nothing since....