EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

…Section F is inadequate, and I’ve said that the document I’ve attached needs to be incorporated in Section F. I’ve called it Section F amendments…

@RibbyJumper that will be fine. I feared you wanted something like ‘see attached table…’ in section F. Rather than have the provision itself in section F.

@BrightYellowTrain thank you for explaining how the hearings work.

In terms of section I appeals (both generally and for phase transfer), if parents win the appeal, how soon does the child have to move to the new school, eg. from mainstream to special.

If I appeal section I in the next couple of months and get a hearing date for eg. October or November 2024 and say the appeal goes in my favour, how soon would DD have to move to the new school? Could I say I don’t want her to move until September 2026?

I’m guessing the answer is probably no but I just wanted to explore all possibilities.

@Ponche phase transfer appeals including section I would look at the placement for the phase transfer. For example, if a current nursery child had an appeal in, say, June this year, the placement would begin in September. For those phase transfer appeals that won’t be held by the start of the new academic year, placement would begin ASAP after the conclusion of the appeal/amended EHCP issued. Although some may need a period of transition. For non-phase transfer appeals, mostly placements begin soon after the appeal. Occasionally, it may not begin for a while. Waiting 10-12 months is unlikely.

@BrightYellowTrain thanks a lot for explaining, that’s really useful to know!

Can only the LA call LA professionals as witnesses to the tribunal? Or would parents be able to ask the LA EP to attend as a witness?

Going back and forth with the LA and EP team trying to get the 1:1 support sufficiently quantified in Section F and in the EP report but am getting nowhere. The LA EP said they can only attend if asked to by the LA.

@Ponche you can ask the LA EP if they will attend as a witness. The LA EP may decline. In which case you could, in theory, request SENDIST summons the LA EP. However, you should carefully consider if that is wise. Will having them attend will actually help your case, especially if they are not there by choice.

@BrightYellowTrain thanks for clarifying and I understand what you mean.

I wouldn’t request they be summoned and even a written statement would be enough if they agreed. Just struggling to work out how to resolve the issue, as they’re saying they don’t quantify 1:1 hours in the way I am expecting (for any child it seems) as it’s not their remit. Although they acknowledge that the neighbouring borough does quantify 1:1 hours in that way. So it’s doesn’t make sense to me, as it seems like a local policy issue.

I’ve asked them to put something in writing so will see what they say.

@Ponche I know you have some independent reports. Does that include an independent EP report? If not, and you aren’t getting an independent EP report, if you have it in writing that the LA won’t detail, specify and quantify reports, you could ask SENDIST to order the LA to provide sufficient information. There’s no guarantee SENDIST would, though. And even if they did, there’s no guarantee it would include any or enough 1:1.

@BrightYellowTrain Unfortunately I don't have an independent EP report, only OT and SLT.

The 1:1 support specified in the EP is confusing (to me) and insufficient - I raised this at the time and the wording was amended to what it is now. Since then I have been trying to resolve this via the working document process.

This is how it's worded in the report:

Provision - Additional adult support delivered by a member of staff with additional training on working with neurodiverse children.

What/how often/who? - TA (with additional training as advised by the CCI team)
At all times Daily - direct 1:1 for no less 1.5hr (specific intervention) / small group max 4 approx 1hr / individualised monitoring and direct support at all other times).

School are providing 1:1 support above what's in the EHCP - DD is getting 35 hours 1:1 support per week, including lunch time. The LA are providing exceptional allocation funding towards this but technically this is for unstructured parts of the days - breaks and lunch.

I feel the 1:1 support currently in section F is not reflective of what DD needs or what she is getting. I was hoping the EP would amend report but knew they wouldn't. Unfortunately the independent OT and SLT reports don't specify 1:1 either as a recommendation as they felt not their remit, although both reports imply specialist provision is needed and I don't feel DD would need full-time 1:1 support in specialist due to the enhanced ratio and different environment.

School have provided plenty of information detailing why DD needs 35 hours 1:1, but not sure if this counts. The EP seems to think that as DD has the highest funding band plus additional funding that it doesn't matter that section F doesn't specify 35 hours 1:1 support. I have asked the school to provide the costings to see if it helps my case.

If the EP said we can't specify full-time 1:1 support as DD doesn't need this then I would perhaps understand. But they're saying they wouldn't specify this for any child.

@Ponche all evidence is considered but it would be very helpful to have an EP report sufficiently detailed, specified and quantified. Do you have it in writing that the LA has such a blanket policy? If so, the other route you could be worth contacting the monitoring officer.

Nothing in writing yet, but I will come back and update if/when I get anything.

I spoke to the EP today and requested their reasoning in writing, so hopefully they will send something soon.

They may be careful what they put in writing now, but I will see what they say and see if it's worth contacting the monitoring officer anyway so they can do their own investigations. Thanks for pointing that out as that wouldn't have occurred to me.

@Ponche going forward, it is helpful to follow up all verbal conversations with emails to create a paper trail.

I definitely agree with that! If necessary do your own emails "in our telephone conversation on DATE you stated that..."

@Phineyj @BrightYellowTrain thank you both, I will do that now as the call was only yesterday

And when writing emails keep in mind one day it may be read out in Tribunal. On that note, I love this mug.

Hi all tribunal hearing in 2 months. Met last year to discuss working document v4 of ehcp but la has yet to send us a copy?! Have chased them but nothing. Where do I stand? Do I contact sendist or wait? Thanks all

Looking at taking our complaint to the LGO. This is regarding the refusal to do an OT assessment as part of the EHCNA even though the EP report refers to the need for one. Formal complaint stage 1 & 2 basically said it is up to the SENAT professional judgement and therefore not within the remit of the complaints team to make them....

But I seem to recall some issue where there are complaints with LGO and also tribunal appeals? I am expecting to have to appeal the content of the EHCP once finalised (based on the fact they drafted it before they received most of the specialist reports!). Is it better to wait before submitting the LGO complaint? I am unsure of current timescales for either route.

@246810k I would give it a bit longer and chase the LA again. Who have you contacted at the LA?

@handmademitlove the LGO won’t deal with anything related to Tribunal. That will apply whenever you complain. LGO complaints are taking a significant amount of time. They are also inundated.

Hi everyone.

My son is 4yrs old, in Reception, and was agreed to issue and a draft ehcp followed ( 2 weeks past deadline) with consultations sent out to his existing Mainstream and 2 Special schools (1 being my named preferred setting).

The deadline for the consultations was Christmas Eve ( Of course I knew this wouldn't happen ) . My sons Mainstream responded 19th Dec saying they can't meet need . I was aware of this from a meeting I had with his Senco previous to this.

I emailed the Case coordinator a week ago and she chased the settings yet to respond. She also said she would need to consult the nearest Mainstream ( as procedure only ) . Nearest Mainstream is the one he currently attends so she consulted the next closest.

As a result of her chasing things up, my named preferred special school responded saying they CAN meet need and can be named in the final plan. This really pleased me. Whilst I know it's ultimately the L.As decision, I took this as a really positive response.

I then check the EHC hub a couple of days after that to see the draft plan is no longer there and a 3rd draft is currently being done. The consultations from the 2nd special school and Mainstream who had yet to respond has been " closed by coordinator " in red next to it.

I've been looking into it and it seems that if the 3rd draft isn't drastically different this will have no effect on the current responses from settings received already.
I emailed the case coordinator to see what's happening and no response as of yet.

The timeline is all confusing as initially the ehc was supposedly meant to be finalised 17th Dec yet the consultations initially sent out response wise were due 24th Dec.

Has anyone had a similar situation occur with multiple drafts being done. Did it effect consultations etc?

Never been through this process before so would appreciate any advice etc.

Thank you :)

Also to add, my son is part time 8:40 - 11:30 daily due to "staffing".

Hello,
I am totally worrying now about which school to send my child to, we are on week 13 on EHCNA the LA’s Educational psychologist report needs to be back to them a few days before week 14 The issue I am having is I have said throughout this whole process that I would like her to go to the same school as my son, but since starting the needs assessment the attitude of this school and the sen there seems to be non existent, I’ve not even seen the SENCo in months even though she has been within the school once a week. My question is when you receive a draft plan will that be when I get to make my decision on a school or will they just take the school I’ve already spoken about? and because I have said mainstream if they think a special school is needed will they suggest that over mainstream? When would it be that am i likely going to receive a draft plan?

@Muvva1981 if the EHCP was supposed to be finalised last year, send IPSEA’s model letter for failure to finalise within 20 weeks to the Director of Children’s Services. If that doesn’t work, you need a pre-action letter.

You have the right to send DS part time until he is compulsory school age. However, it is your decision. It is not for the school to make. If you want DS to attend full time, or part-time, but more than he is, he can unless the school formally suspends. At the minute, the school is informally excluding DS, which is unlawful.

@Cinnamoncupcake if the LA is not going to issue, they must inform you by week 16. If the LA is going to issue, they must finalise by week 20. In order to do that, they should send a draft by week 14. LAs often think they can take as long as they like. If the LA breaches the timescales, you should send IPSEA’s model letter.

When/if you receive a draft, you will be able to make representations and state your preferred placement. This doesn’t have to be the current placement or one you have previously mentioned.

The LA can only name a special school against the parent’s wish if placing DC in MS is incompatible with the efficient education of others, and no reasonable steps could be taken to avoid this.

Thank you for your great advice, I don’t think I will receive a draft plan by week 14 because they have given the educational psychologist until 2 days before 14 weeks to send in her report. It’s so hard choosing the right school for your child, I feel like a lot of schools come across as they don’t want her there because she is hard work, she is 4 has autism with a pda profile, still in nappies ( I’ve tried and tried and nothing is working ), there is so much they would need to do with her before even trying to teach her, danger to herself and others, she’s a runner and I’m almost certain it will say she needs full 1-1 even at break and lunch. I just don’t know how to choose somewhere when they are all so negative.

@Cinnamoncupcake

Just wondered if this might be helpful, having been through the nappy challenge.
I put the nappy in the potty and made a pocket so DS still had the ‘feeling’ of the nappy on his body.
Everything had to be incredibly small incremental stages, and the visual widgits were very, very helpful.

Like these, except I used these ones for toilet training : https://www.tes.com/teaching-resource/toilet-routine-for-boys-girls-using-widgit-cip2-6112928
Looking back, it was almost a ‘fear’ of realising what was coming out of his body. A simple child friendly potty book, and the coco melon song helped too.
He will only go at school now if someone puts a lanyard over his head, otherwise he holds it in all day.