EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

Hi everyone. I am going to apply for an EHCP for my daughter. She is year 6, do you think it's worth it to do now, or should I wait until she has started secondary? We have chosen a school already, which is the best of a bad job as our area doesn't have a school that would meet her needs academically that isn't mainstream. So we've picked a mainstream with a large learning support department that is open to all students and came recommended. My DD is on the SEN register. She has autism but is academically ahead by a long stretch.
Thanks so much for your help

Apply now. It takes ages!

@addies I wouldn’t wait either. Request an EHCNA now.

@MinnieTruck The hearing is in June, so still quite a while away! I know what you mean but don't feel guilty about DS still not being in nursery. You can only do your best and that's what you're doing.

The LA have sent a copy of the bundle electronically but no paper copy - the appeal letter mentions they're supposed to deliver a paper copy by the deadline but in reality do LAs usually do that?

I never had a paper copy of anything apart from maybe the very first decision letter.

Ask for paper bundle if you want one. With the changes, often LAs don’t send a paper bundle unless requested.

@Phineyj @BrightYellowTrain thanks for letting me know!

I was having a look at who the LA need to contact for my daughters EHCNA and it says educational psychologist and children’s social care, she has never been seen by either of these, is this something they requested with all EHCNA assessments?

@Cinnamoncupcake the LA must seek advice and information from an EP as part of all EHCNAs. The regulations state the LA must seek advice and information in relation to social care. LAs often don’t do this, so specifically request a social care assessment if you want the LA to seek advice from them and insist if they don’t. Where LAs do seek advice and information, it is often a ‘not known to the service’ or ‘no current involvement’ reply. That isn’t an acceptable reply. Push for a proper response.

Can I have a sanity check, please?

We're still exploring possible early reviews ahead of spring tribunal date. Our LA asked to meet with our SENCo last week regarding our appeal (they even sent him our WDs and asked for his input, which he admitted was unusual). After the meeting, the SENCo sent us a provision map, listing what the EHCP says and what the school is doing.

Regarding literacy support, DC's EHCP says 'DC will be paired with an adult for reading to improve comprehension skills and understanding of text. Provide strategies, and use visual support, such as graphic organisers and frameworks, to help develop techniques to interrogate text. Increase DC's motivation for reading and writing by ensuring that texts are interesting and motivating for him. It will be important to monitor DC's ability to engage and to adjust the provision in response (eg, length, level of challenge, topic)".

School claims to be meeting this need through: '1:1 reading with an LSA once a week and time with a trained 6th Form Reading Mentor – Not only does this provide a space to read and develop comprehension skills, but it is also extremely beneficial for communication and interaction'.

This trained 6th former is also noted to be delivering 'precision teaching to develop the accuracy and fluency of his reading/spelling skills' and 'a small group intervention to target conversational skills'.

The EHCP says these should be delivered by a 'key adult, overseen by SENCo'.

In our WDs I have indicated that this needs to be much more detailed, specified and quantified, but the current version is what we have to work with ATM. AIBU to be really angry that this 'trained 6th former' is supposedly qualified to deliver my child's SEN provision?

Advice please?

It is clearly inappropriate to be using a sixth former. They are not an employee.

It actually is not that rare for LAs to collaborate/collude with schools on appeals/WDs. It is about trying to fit the EHCP to the school rather than basing the EHCP on the child.

The problem is the EHCP is currently too vague. Even disregarding the ‘adult’ side of things, it doesn’t cover how long or how frequently said pairing will be. And just because something is important doesn’t mean it will be delivered. Reading once a week with an LSA could provide what you say is currently in F. So whilst it is inappropriate for the sixth former to be delivering SEP in an EHCP, the school may well say the sixth form mentor providing reading time is on top of the LSA and is not delivering SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F.

Is the precision teaching and small group intervention covered in the EHCP? Or just on the provision map? If the former, it should be a member of staff, not a sixth former. However, it doesn’t sound like it is enforceable, e.g. no frequency/times/small group not defined.

@BrightYellowTrain Sorry, I left out the details: The EHCP says 30 mins weekly for paired reading; 10 mins daily for precision reading/spelling; 20-30 mins weekly for small group conversational skills with a group of up to four children; 15-20 mins weekly for individual support with social scenarios; 20-30 mins weekly SEMH support/zones of regulation; 15 mins daily vague 'activities' to support fine motor and handwriting skills; 20 mins weekly C&L mentoring/'metacognition'. The Maths intervention is a messy hybrid of '10-30 min 3 times a week of precision 1:1 or small group up to 8 children'. There's also 10 mins daily of literacy and 10 mins daily of numeracy preteaching. He's also supposed to have 20-30 mins weekly of EF support. All of these are to be delivered by the 'key adult'.

In the provision map, the SEMH, social scenarios and mentoring provisions all seem to be lumped into a single 20-min session every fortnight (which was delivered once in early September before the then key link left and a new key link has only just been allocated but won't meet with DS until January.). The group Maths intervention has been scheduled after school and DS won't go because he sees staying after school for Maths as punishment.

I'm feel so distraught at this point, esp as DC now has EBSA and has missed several weeks of school. We had a really positive impression of our SENCo but hardly any provision is being delivered and it's been a full term.

I have tried to make everything much more detailed/specified/quantified in the WDs but it feels like a bit of a Catch-22: if provision is too d/s/q schools seem to claim they can't meet needs ('not possible in a large MS setting') and if it's not adequately d/s/q, they wriggle out of providing it.

if provision is too d/s/q schools seem to claim they can't meet needs ('not possible in a large MS setting')

@SpaceInvader321 this is nonsense. The LA and school know it. It is a common tactic used to scare parents off. There is nothing written that is beyond a mainstream. It would not stand up in court. Don’t let it put you off. Provision in F is based on what the child reasonably requires to meet their needs, not written to fit the school.

At the minute, the ‘key adult’ is vague, but with the information in your last post there is provision there that should still be being provided by 'somebody' and it isn’t appropriate for that somebody to be a sixth former. The school cannot enforce afterschool intervention. I would remind the school what is in F. Remind them the EHCP is a legal document. If it continues, take it up with the LA because it is ultimately their responsibility.

Thanks, @BrightYellowTrain. I am definitely feeling worn down by this, so appreciate the support.

Is there something I can quote to them relating to the after-school provision? Is it explicitly stated somewhere that they can't enforce it? By 'enforce' do you mean they can't force DS to attend, or that they cannot legally implement provision from F outside of the normal school day?

@SpaceInvader321

By 'enforce' do you mean they can't force DS to attend, or that they cannot legally implement provision from F outside of the normal school day?

The former. The latter definitely can and does happen. It would depend on what exactly the school is saying, but trying to force disabled DC to remain after school could, in some cases, be disability discrimination and a breach of the Equality Act. I don’t know of anywhere that explicitly states that but the LA will be aware they can’t force DC to stay longer than non-disabled peers.

Theres also the question of transport. Often LAs claim transport is only provided at the end of the typical day. This policy is often questionable, but provision afterschool often raises transport issues. This can be a time parents use the LA’s questionable practices against them.

With somewhat indecent haste the LA have drafted the plan. It's not awful- a few bits need tightening up but it's largely a C&P job and the reports were mostly adequate. I do a lot of SMART objectives professionally so feel fine running through that. Do most people do a tracked changes document or notes? Am reminded I had to show the SENCO how to use track changes so...

The only issue is we still don't have our report from the SALT, argh. It should come in the next day or 2 and I know she has recommended 121 SALT.

When I get it, should I just send to the EHCP coordinator, and then include comments to those recommendations on the draft? I am wholly expecting them not to agree SLT and having to appeal that after issue but you never know I suppose.

@BrightYellowTrain Very helpful to think of it in terms of the Equality Act/possible disability discrimination. DC's EP reports specifically note that he has a clear separation between school and home (which makes doing homework challenging) and that he is very fatigued by the end of a normal school day.

Transport is not an issue for us as DC can travel independently to/from school, though I would have reservations about him leaving on his own in the darkness of winter following an after school intervention. (That said, if we decide to try for a SS, transport might come into play.)

@Macramepotholder I request amendments as if it was a working document. But it is fine to make representations in whatever way you want. Yes, you can send the report to the LA and include any necessary amendments you are requesting as part of your representations.

@SpaceInvader321 fatigue is certainly a relevant factor. You could use the EP report to highlight how unsuitable (and potentially pointless/counter-productive) afterschool interventions would be.

We have been offered parental choice sen school for September 2025. We are going through appeal for b f and I.

The mainstream setting have confirmed they cannot meet at least 2 of the provisions. These are environmental so cannot throw money at the school to deliver.

For these 2 provisions that are not being delivered I have an ongoing complaint. The complaint has been upheld but no financial remedy given so i have asked to escalate. However as we are not going to sen school until sept 2025 surely this should also be considered as part of the complaint for the remainder of the academic year. As these provisions will still not be delivered?

@SpaceInvader321 this all sounds v difficult, poor you.

At my school the SEMH stuff is weekly in small groups. They take DC out of a one hour lesson each week (on a rolling timetable so a different lesson is missed each time). They didn't have a SEMH person in the autumn so the SENCO led the groups herself till one was recruited.

SEMH needs are key I think as without that how can DC access learning? Especially when there's EBSA.

We don't have anything after school except study hall stuff that is more for disadvantaged DC and optional things like sports clubs.

This is a mainstream.

Can you ask for an emergency annual review?

As you are finding, the timescales of the complaint process means it isn’t a suitable remedy for lack of provision. In the future, pre-action letter/JR is normally the better way to go.

LA complaints won’t look at potential future breaches.

Somewhat off topic, but if you’ve applied for DLA previously, how long did it take to get a decision? I just called to chase and they said at least 23 weeks. I applied in August so plenty of time yet I guess! It’s not unexpected but it is rather frustrating!

Hi. I applied for DLA for DD in August 2023, and she was awarded mind Jan this year. It was pretty much spot on 22 weeks, which is what they were quoting at the time. I'm pleased to hear that the wait hasn't gotten any longer as it's bloody awful having to wait that long at all.

The SENCO of DD’s nursery provided the LA with a costed provision map to back up their request for additional funding for DS’ plan. It was assessed by the panel and approved, which is great.

DS now has a named placement and will be starting nursery at the beginning of January. He’ll have a 1:1 for the full 15 hours. Thank God is all I can say