EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

Well done @MinnieTruck!

Thank you! @Phineyj 🫂

Does anyone happen to know a ballpark figure of pre action letter costs?
Independent EP saw DS in October, nursery sent report to LA in November and they didn't read the email for weeks so had to chase to get it on son's file. ECHP caseworker is not responding to calls/emails and LA seemingly told them all to stop responding to any communication before Xmas to clear things, and now can't get through on their SEN line that's only open 2 hours a day which cuts off after 15 minutes.

We re on week 37 so feels like pre action is the only way to get his case pushed up the queue as LAs been in the news for having no clue how bad their backlog is/ getting 100+ complaints a month.

Never mind, their caseworker has just miraculously turned their phone back on. Had an agreement to issue the plan finally.

@1995SENNDMUM brilliant news. If the LA doesn’t send a draft then finalise ASAP, revisit a pre-action letter.

Happy new year, all! Hope the break brought you some well deserved relaxation.

We're talking with our SENCo about doing early annual reviews as both DC are struggling and attendance has been impacted.

I'm wondering how to navigate this alongside our current tribunal appeals and WD process. If we do early ARs in Feb and identify changes in provision and/or setting, could this cause complications with our tribunal appeals (scheduled for May)?

We've been waiting since Oct for the LA to respond to our first WD drafts (I chased last week), so if they approve any of our amendments, would these be taken into consideration during the ARs? Or would the ARs only look at the current finalised EHCPs? It seems like it could get very confusing in terms of version control.

@SpaceInvader321 it isn’t uncommon for the LA not to be on the ball with the WD at this stage in the appeal. If the LA continues to fail to engage with the WD process going forward, contact SENDIST.

Any proposed amendments following a review can feed into the WD.

A review looks at the current EHCP, but can also be an opportunity to work towards resolving some of the disputed content related to the existing appeal. Often the issues are one and the same, anyway.

If the LA is going to agree to amendments via an early review. They could do so within the existing appeal. Personally, I wouldn’t want early reviews in Feb if your hearings are in May. If the LA drag things out following the early reviews, you may be in a situation where the LA tries to play games by finalising amended EHCPs not long after your hearings, which could needlessly complicate things. Even if they don’t do this, there is still the possibility an early review so close to the hearings could complicate things for you.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain. Would SENDIST nudge the LA to respond to the WDs?

I'm feeling increasingly uneasy about the idea of early reviews given that the tribunals are now just four months away and ARs would also need to be done by mid-May. Two appeals and two early reviews is feeling like a lot to juggle.

Do school consultation responses expire at some point? We're waiting to hear back from a specialist ASD independent school and a ASD unit. If we hold off on the early reviews and add section I to the appeals, would those consultations still be considered valid in a few months?

@SpaceInvader321 if you want a chance of section I to be added to your appeal, you need to act ASAP. Otherwise, you risk SENDIST refusing or your hearings pushed back.

Would SENDIST nudge the LA to respond to the WDs?

They can do. They are more likely closer to the hearing.

Do school consultation responses expire at some point?
would those consultations still be considered valid in a few months?

Evidence from schools would still be considered. Sometimes up to date evidence is sought, but not always. With wholly independent schools, sometimes the school may include a date they will hold a place until on the provision of place evidence.

@BrightYellowTrain I was going to wait until we had the recent school consultations back (expected any day now) before deciding whether to amend the appeals to include section I. Partly because we don't have many suitable SS options nearby (one state ASD unit attached to a MS and one wholly independent) and partly because DC1 is especially resistant to the idea of changing schools. The fact that our SENCo is genuinely caring and supportive and working towards making the school more neuroinclusive is another reason we've wanted to try to make this MS work.

The SENCo has said that they want to "exhaust their endeavours" before concluding that they can't meet needs. OTOH they have had an entire term to support DC and both kids are now in burnout and struggling to attend. School says the LA has not funded the Plans sufficiently (they've raised this with the LA several times) and the provision in DS's plan cannot be implemented "as written". So, for example, they say they can't provide "10 minutes daily of precision teaching in maths", as they just don't have the resources for that. Am I being naive to think that if we got the wording right and funding came in, things would get significantly better?

Even if we decide against early reviews, the EHCPs were finalised in May last year and amended in June, so the ARs will be due around the same time as the appeal hearings. Should the ARs be timed by the original finalisation date or by the date they were last amended?

Thanks so much.

It’s impossible to say if it will get better without knowing more. Even then, it can sometimes be uncertain. If the school is failing to provide the provision in F now, sometimes that will continue even with adequate funding because the school has seen they can get away with it.

If the EHCPs were amended in June 24 without following the formal review process, then the AR should be within 12 months of when the EHCP was finalised. If the EHCPs were amended in June 24 via the review process, the AR is due within 12 months of then. Either way, the LA should not amend provision recently ordered by SENDIST just because they disagree with it.

I am dipping my toe into a controversial area so that is a little uncomfortable. My DD has a diagnosis of Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) and I am finding that LA support / knowledge is patchy - much like everything else really. The clue should have been when the specialist centre in London asked who my LA was and then suggested an appointment with their own Teacher of the Deaf! I have emailed the sensory support team to find out what the official policy is and the answer seems to be that they only support hearing loss, not impairment so APD is nothing to do with them... I feel another battle coming to get it included in the finalised EHCP.

You may have to appeal, I’m afraid. ToD input/support/training is possible for APD, but it is often a fight. Local policy isn’t the law.

Mine have provision for ADP in their EHCPs. DS3 had more when he attended school. He needs less provision now because he isn't in large groups, but the underlying provision is still in his EHCP. The LA originally claimed they don’t have a hearing impairment despite their NHS diagnoses from a specialist clinic.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain. What sort of provision did you have? She is currently using ALDs at school which has made a massive difference, but they technically belong to her sister who is not using them at the moment, so trying to work out if we can get some for her as well. It would also be really helpful for school staff to have some training - I know she is not the only child with ALDs at the school but they have had no support from the LA so far, so wondering if there is someone independent that could provide this?

@handmademitlove ALDs/ALS would be possible. You would need evidence. There are independent ToDs if you need to appeal. If DD attended the London clinic I think she may have, the Professor there is well regarded and the clinic’s evidence can support your case.

Currently, both DS1 and DS3 have 2 hours of direct ToD training/input/provision per term. In addition to this, there is training for new teaching staff/1:1s.

When DS3 was in school, he had an additional 1 hour per half term and training for a Roger Pen (you may want an up to date product now). This is still in his EHCP as underlying provision if he is taught in group sizes of more than 8. He also had some online training (he struggled to engage with this so we dropped it.)

@BrightYellowTrain that is useful, thank you. We have the report from UCLH and have forwarded it to the co-ordinator. I may need to specifically tell them that we would like the ALDs adding to the EHCP.

I may need to specifically tell them that we would like the ALDs adding to the EHCP.

Definitely tell them @handmademitlove.

Happy New Year everyone.

Hope you managed to get some measure of peace and rest over Christmas.

DS was excited, so excited he came down to check under the tree at 1 am, 3 am and 5am.

Well, we are back in the saddle. Contacted school to enquire whether DS's provision for literacy will be delivered as of this week and henceforth.

LA threatening an early AR for a spurious reason.

Solicitor has said they can very politely go away.

And so it begins.

Happy New Year All. Battle-hardened veteran, who has been taking a much needed lie down, back and reporting for duty.

DC is 15, AuDHD with other complex needs. EHCP was strengthened on appeal, and LA have provided funding for 1-2-1 hours, but academy saying these are met by the staff member on playground duty at lunchtimes. Have held off seeking Judicial Review, to see if the LA would sort this, but the academy appear to be toughing it out, as well as persisting with other inappropriate treatment of DC (punishments for behaviour arising from a disability). DC is well into GCSE courses so moving them is not an option.

It's a pretty unpleasant situation for DC. Any advice or similar experiences?

@NonplasticBertrand in my experience of secondary schools, there are two types - those who do everything they can to support vulnerable students, and those who do their best to encourage parents to remove their children if they take up too much time / resources / effort... Only you will know which of these you have unfortunately!

If it is a systemic school wide issue, then the legal route is the only way to make them comply - bare minimum they can get away with weeks to be a standard approach sadly. If, however, you feel that the school are generally good,.then actually a formal complaint may be the way to go. Often I hear that the Sendco is unwilling to do x, y and z. But a formal complaint is heard by someone higher up and they will often ask why these things are not being done. I often speak to members of staff who are unaware of what other members of their team are telling parents, and while awkward, a formal complaint raises this issue and ensures.that other members of staff are forced to justify their decisions.

However, this all supposed that the EHCP is written in such a way that there is no doubt about the 1-2-1 hours?

Regarding the punishment for disability related stuff, it depends what it is. I have had success with taking school policies that were badly written and physically highlighting all the things that they cannot do due to disability. Where homework is not completed because the teacher didn't follow policy of adding it to the homework app, I have challenged this and had the behaviour points / detentions cancelled and teachers reminded of their responsibilities.

I'm sorry to hear this, @NonplasticBertrand. As a teacher, I'd say, sadly, this comes from the Head and it I were you (while of course trying every remedy to make them use the 1-1 money appropriately), I'd be looking to the future and KS5 somewhere that supports its students properly.

Does DC have a designated person? I assume detentions are for lateness, forgotten homework etc? Can they and/or the form tutor help with this?

And yes, as @handmademitlove says, make sure the Head is aware in case difficulties are arising from middle management/SENCO.

There will also be an academy executive Head and a Trust SEN lead in the corporate bit of the academy trust if you want to go nuclear. Check the Trust website for names and policy statements.

@NonplasticBertrand if the provision is detailed, specified and quantified in F, I would pursue JR.

If you don't get anywhere with the school, you could also look at a disability discrimination case.

Thanks @handmademitlove, @Phineyj and @BrightYellowTrain. The EHC plan is clear and additional funding is in place. It is almost as though the blockage is ideological. Distressing to see DC denied the support they are entitled to to and struggling to engage as a consequence of unmet needs.

LA have until 12pm tomorrow to respond to my tribunal appeal.
What happens if they don't?