EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

I think anyone would feel like that @Alltheyearround. It's OK to feel very let down. You and DS have been very let down.

I think your instinct to focus on the new setting is right. Three years is long enough to try to get somewhere to do something. More than enough!

Regarding the assessment, some posters on here have had success with Choose and Book - have you spoken to your GP about that?

We had to wait even for a private assessment but told them we'd take a last minute cancellation and got one. That was back in 2020 though so the system was backed up for different reasons.

@SpaceInvader321 who cares if the LA thinks you're unreasonable? Are they being reasonable? I'm guessing....no...or you wouldn't be doing all this in the first place.

I had about 17 pages of comments on the draft EHCP when I was finished. I marked them up on the pdf and pasted them also onto Word as screenshots. I personally wouldn't have sent my comments in one by one as it would have been hard to keep track but there doesn't seem to be any guidance on that, so do what works for you.

Sadly they didn't make all the changes but it is in place now with the correct school named and DD has been attending successfully for a month, so fingers crossed.

@Phineyj
Its so sad that all of us parents/carers on here have so many problems with getting help for our children in school.
All schools seem so unfunded and the majority don't seem to care anyway.
Can I just ask please... Did you get a specialist school for your child? and if so at what point did you name the school you preferred.?
I'm currently awaiting my daughters draft.
I've got to get her away from mainstream school. One day there is support the next 3 days no support... I'm tired of ringing the school every day. I've reached breaking point.
Thank you for any advice.

Hi @Onegentlepeer I'm phineyj but I have issues with different devices signed in to different accounts.

I had to go to the lengths of securing a place for my daughter in my own school (I'm a teacher) so that I could keep an eye on things from the inside so to speak. Plus I'd been able to evaluate by then whether they were any good and I was satisfied they do their best. She doesn't need a specialist school, or not right now, anyway.

She had a place through the normal application process (although I had to use the teaching staff criteria in admissions as we're out of catchment) and then once the EHCP was issued in June of year 6 the LA named the school in it. There was a very stressful few weeks when I wasn't sure it was all going to work and wondered if I'd have to do yet another tribunal to get the school named (in theory you can't lose the existing place if that happens but who knows?!)

Good luck & I hope things improve for you.

@Onegentlepeer when you get the draft you get the opportunity to state your preferred placement. There are limited circumstances in law where the LA can lawfully not name this preference. However, when the LA finalise, they may or may not name your preferred school. They may force you to appeal especially if your preference is a SS.

We decided to commission private report which we had this week. Going to send to specialist ASD school tomorrow morning and see if they think they are a good match for DS and vice versa.

Also got a private EP booked for end Nov as well. LA promised us one then backed out with no explanation. In any case independent one not beholden to anyone so they can be frank about what DS needs, Will be very interesting to see their assessments of his reading. I'm training as a specialist dyslexia teacher so I can see perfectly well that what school are doing is not in any way matched to his needs. No-one is even listening to him read which is so basic for where he's at right now. Bear in mind this is a class of 5 or 6 not 30. So you'd think someone either TA or teacher could spare 5 -10 minutes.

DH and I have been preparing battle plan today, speech therapy is uppermost as its his most significant need just now. Hoping to hear the LA have found therapists with relevant experience (he has Childhood Apraxia of Speech and another fluency disorder). Keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks @Phineyj It helps to know others recognise we have been let down. We have had a lot of flannel from LA and school where we are made to feel like the problem. Yes we are so demanding, wanting them to abide by the law. Funny how they teach so called British Values including respect for the law but are happy to dodge it, when it suits, in real life. Ironic.

@BrumToTheRescue
Hi again
If the LA don't name our preferred SS do they still issue the final plan?
Would the final most likely name DD's current school?
They've ( LA) already told me there are no places in any SS. It's incredibly disheartening..
I know DD can no longer cope in mainstream. The sensory environment is too overwhelming etc.
Where are our children supposed to go?

@Onegentlepeer yes, the LA must still finalise. It’s just they may not name your preferred school and force you to appeal. It is impossible to say what school they will name.

The law says unless the school is wholly independent the LA must name your preferred school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
The bar for this is higher than many LAs and schools like to admit.

On its own being ‘full’ (which isn’t defined in law) is not enough of a reason to refuse to name your preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible, which, again, is higher than many LAs and schools admit.

However, the LA may force you to appeal.

They may finalise naming simply a type of school, which gives you a right of appeal. They obviously still have to arrange education in the meantime, possibly through alternative provision or EOTAS.

Can anyone help please I received an email after submitting final evidence I really don't understand what it means I just know it's an order for the la:

The Tribunal has received a request from the parent dated 7
th August 2024 for
permission to amend the grounds of appeal by naming x"xxxxxxx as
the school of parental preference in Section I of the EHC Plan.
Xxxxxxxx is an academy special converter.
The views of the LA upon the request were sought on 30th July 2024 and although no
formal response has been received, the LA acknowledged the parental preference in its
response to appeal.
The Tribunal considers it to be in xxxxxxx interests that the grounds of appeal are
amended in accordance with parental preference. The Tribunal considers that the LA
has had sufficient time in which to oppose the request had it wished to do so.
The Tribunal notes that the LA confirmed in its response to appeal that a consultation
request had been sent to the parent’s preferred placement and a response was awaited
so considers that there is sufficient time for the LA to properly respond to the amended
grounds of appeal but extensions to the final evidence and bundle deadlines are
necessary.
It is ordered:

1. Permission is granted to the parents to amend the grounds of the appeal by

naming xxxxxxx as the school of parental preference in Section I of xxxxxx EHC Plan.

1. The LA shall submit a supplementary response dealing with the amended

grounds of the appeal so that it is received by the parents and the Tribunal no later than 12 noon on 21st October 2024.

1. To assist the Tribunal to decide whether the school of parental preference or the

LA’s named school should be named in Section I of the EHC Plan, the Tribunal requires the LA to provide the following evidence in their response for both the proposed placements no later than 12 noon on 21st October 2024: • The most recent OFSTED/Independent Schools Council inspection report in respect of the school; • SEN Information Report; • School/College Prospectus; • A signed and dated statement from a member of the senior management team setting out the proposed provision for DD, staffing information and information about the nature and severity of the difficulties of the class group with ,.......

[Post edited by MNHQ to remove identifying name]

@Mummytodo you might want to request MNHQ edits your post because it includes DD’s name.

You requested for Xxxxxxxx to be your preferred school for the appeal. SENDIST has agreed to allow that to be your preference. The LA needs to respond and also send all the information requested by 12 noon on 21st October 2024.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you

Refuse to assess appeal day today! Does anyone know the usual timeline for SENDIST to let you know the outcome? It's on the papers.

I think we received our notification letter around 7-10 days after the hearing.

@Macramepotholder usually within a couple of weeks. However, some do wait longer, so don’t panic if you don’t.

Helpppp.

So I used a ‘request to seek advice and information from X professional as part of the EHCNA’ template so that the LA could contact Neurology/DS’ epilepsy nurse as DS was just diagnosed with epilepsy 2 months ago. I also asked for them to get in touch with Audiology and DS has mild hearing loss and is currently waiting to have surgery to assist his hearing.

The LA have just got back to me and said, ‘When we seek paediatrics advice, they liase with the other various services and provide a co ordinated response to the advice so they will all respond together.’

But all DS’ bloody paediatrician said was, ‘DS was referred to the audiology team to assess his hearing.’ That’s it.

In regards to Neurology, it says, ‘DS presented with abnormal movements which are consistent with seizures. He was reviewed by X, Conusitant Paediatric Neurologist- on the X. An investigation EEG done in X 2024 support a diagnosis of focal epilepsy. As this has occured twice, parents are considering starting DS on medication to manage his seizures. DS will need close supervision within the home and community settings.’

In my mind, I thought have Neurology involved would provide a much more in depth report. Am I just meant to leave it at that then? It just seems like the Paediatrician has read some reports but hasn’t actually liaised with them. What do you guys think?

@MinnieTruck I would go back to the LA. The advice isn’t sufficient. For a start, what is “close supervision”? Or you could cut out the middleman, speak to the HCPs yourself and request they write a letter/report for you. Then you can submit it to the LA.

Thanks both, presumably the clock starts from the date of decision rather than the letter if successful?

It is from the date of the Order.

Sometimes HCP can try to dodge being specific, but the EHCP process requires them to be so (they sometimes get pressure from above not to). So do ask what close supervision means within a school environment, for example does the child need 1:1 supervision all day including breaks and lunch? Or if not what is the appropriate care (a class teacher in charge of 30, a lunch time assistant in charge of the whole playground?). Try to pin them down. School is a very different environment to being at home with a sibling and mum and dad closely supervising during waking hours. Should the people at school (whoever the HPC thinks may be needed) be trained in what to do if there is a seizure and by who?

You can also ask school to create an individual health care plan which would detail all this but that is on top of EHCP specificity not instead of. We have one for DS who doesn't sense thirst and needs prompting, and has continence issues which need monitoring during the day. All the detail is in both the IHCP and EHCP.

IHCP not legally binding - that's the difference!

I'd go back to neurology and audiology and request letters from consultants themselves or whoever has assessed - sent to you, then email to LA.

What the paediatrician has put is just so vague as to be meaningless. When I go to see them now I type all the points and provide reports and ask them to comment on x y z. Basically in a nice way I tell them what I want them to do, and if its not right I ask again..e,g, please could you comment on DS's social vulnerability or fact he needs someone with him all times outside the house whatever. Squeaky wheels....

Also good idea to apply for DLA. Its a pain but worth it! 54% of people who claim PIP for seizures get an award. I strongly suspect it may more more for children. And you have the other issues around hearing as well. Plus whatever else might be going on.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/disability-living-allowance-dla/dla-aa-cuts

Thank you! @BrumToTheRescue @Alltheyearround

Contacting the HCP directly is a really good idea however I can only ever get in touch with the receptionists and not the HCP themselves! I agree that the paediatrician needs to clarify what ‘close supervision’ means.

I’ve had a read of the EPs report and under, ‘Section 3: Identified strengths and needs, recommended outcomes and provision.’ They’ve stated that a 1:1 is needed under the staff/student ratio section. Is that good enough or should I contact the necessary HCP for clarity on what ‘close supervision’ means? This is my second time going through the EHCP process and I still don’t know what’s good enough and what isn’t!

DS already gets DLA but thank you for mentioning it😆

Get the email of the receptionist. Email your questions and ask for them to be passed to the HCP.

Questions I would want to clarify with EP:

1:1 throughout the school day? and who should that be? A trained TA?

They can write an addendum to their report if more specificity is required.

Remember the golden words:

'There should be no doubt as to what has been decided for the child or YP'

Good luck!

1:1 needed at breaks and lunch as well or just in lessons?

Hope you get to the bottom of what close supervision means in the context of a school day.

@MinnieTruck do you know the telephone number or email address of the consultant’s secretary? If so, call/email them. If not, call the hospital’s switchboard and ask to be put through to Dr/Prof X’s secretary.

Is the 1:1 detailed specified and quantified? On its own saying 1:1 is needed isn’t enough. If it is detailed, specified and quantified having another professional say it isn’t essential.