EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

Thank you! @Alltheyearround tbf DS is only 2 years old so this is for nursery but it’s good to get clarification for the 1:1 during break/lunchtimes etc. The nursery he’ll be going to automatically provide a 1:1 to those with SEN/disabilities but it’ll be good to have that in writing legally.

@BrumToTheRescue I’ve just gone through my emails and I actually do have the email address of Paediatrician’s secretary. The EP’s report is pretty detailed! The only thing is there’s no mention of support outside of the nursery room so I may get clarification on that

Great to get stuff into EHCP now.

A few years will flash past and then DS will be starting school (I guess, unless you have other plans).

I find that I can effectively argue that the LA has to prove earlier assertions/evidence wrong which means they or you updating reports. It costs them £ so they drag their feet when it comes to any reassessment.

Get as much in at this early stage as poss. You can then argue the toss with them about well DS needed x in nursery and those needs have/haven't changed over time so we need x school/y provision.

I have stopped them taking out EP stuff even though it was Y4 and DS now Y10, because they can't prove he no longer needs phonics (he actually does) etc as they are too skinflint to pay up for a new EP.

We're getting a private one done anyway this autumn but you see what I'm driving at?

Well done with everything so far. It's a sort of Snakes and Ladders crossed with a marathon, so pace yourself. Treats for each milestone you get past!

We've got your back :)

I totally get where you’re coming from! @Alltheyearround I’m very grateful for the support on this thread because I’ll certainly be lost without it. I’m gonna contact the EP and secretary tomorrow for clarification so I’ll see what happens

@MinnieTruck off topic, but I know DS has had a few emergency hospital admissions and is under several professionals. We find it helpful to have a summary document. You might find it helpful too, especially for situations you want someone’s contact details or for those occasions where you aren’t with DS when he becomes unwell.

Ours includes:
DS’s name, address, DOB, contact number, NHS number, hospital numbers
My/DH’s names
Names of all professionals involved, speciality, hospital (where applicable), phone number, email.
Diagnoses
Medication
Allergies and adverse reactions
Up to date height/weight
Latest lung function results and microbiology results
Very brief summary of important medical history
Copy of hospital passport

Ohh just found this through, can anyone help on what we have to do while waiting? Received confirmation that the council will assess for ehcp. Ds2 is autistic and almost certainly PDA probably also adhd, but he is only 6, so will be a year or 2 before we assess for that. He will not engage with anything he does not want to and is only interested in plants.

Every day involves us trying to get him into school for 20 minutes reading. It is probably successful about half the time. Sometimes he won't leave the house. Others we get to school, but not through the door. He is effective receiving no education. School are supportive, but can't meet his needs. Can't see anywhere that could, as private and special schools would have the same issues. Local special schools are only for those years behind with violence issues anyway.

We are hoping to get eotas for a mix of forest school and short sessions of literacy and numeracy. But it is such a long battle ahead! He is being traumatised every day now. It takes both parents to get him there and we are therefore missing the beginning of work daily. I know everyone says that you should stay registered, but that means torturing him every day. Not trying would mean fines. What do people do in this situation?

I know everyone says that you should stay registered, but that means torturing him every day. Not trying would mean fines.

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow this isn’t the case. Remaining registered does not have to mean forcing DS to attend if that is inappropriate. If DS can’t attend, the absences should be authorised (you should check this is what they are being recorded as) so no fines. Personally, I wouldn’t deregister. Particularly if you think EOTAS will be required. If DS can’t attend school full time, alternative provision needs to be provided. On their website, ISPEA also has a model letter to request this.

Make sure you request the LA seeks advice and information from any professionals needed, e.g. SALT and OT as part of the EHCNA. IPSEA also has a model letter you can use.

Have you looked at all special schools within travelling distance, including those outside of your LA and independent and non-maintained special schools? For EOTAS/EOTIS, you will need to show it is inappropriate for the provision to be made in a school.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you for the suggestion! I actually have something like that as I was getting fed up explaining what DYRK1A is everytime we went in to A&E. But when you say copy of hospital passport, what is that? I don’t think I have anything like that

@MinnieTruck a hospital passport is a document that staff should look at before treating someone with additional needs (often used for autism and LD. Although we use one for DS1 and as you know, he has other complex needs rather than either of them. We use one for DS3 too who does have ASD). Obviously not in a dire emergency, but in other situations.

It includes things like how to communicate with the patient, things not to do, what to do, etc. This is the one Mencap link to, but lots of trusts have their own version and NAS has one for those with ASD on their website.

It needs to be local, as he doesn't travel well. The special schools within half an hour are all for kids with severe behavior problem or who are many years behind academically. My son is in year 2 and not achieving reception level, but not far enough behind.

In any case, he will only talk about plants and listen to people talking about plants and plant plants and read books about plants and watch videos about plants and grow plants and nag me to buy him plants. No school would manage that!

I will look up the letter, thank you.

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow try to get evidence DS is unable to travel further. The maximum recommended travel time for primary is usually considered 45mins. Where that is not suitable, it can help to have evidence.

Some SS do manage child interest led learning. I am not saying school is appropriate in your case, I am just pointing out some SS do.

Also, looking at EOTAS, you want more than forest school and some numeracy and literacy. Think about therapies, sport/exercise, resources, subscriptions/memberships (maybe including something like spectrum space boxes), equipment, professional time. If DS’s interest is in plants what about a tutor for science too. It doesn’t have to look like traditional academic tuition. Accessing the community (maybe to buy plants)…

@BrumToTheRescue how would we get evidence of car journey issues? A diary? He starts kicking, putting the driver arm rest down, screaming and spitting in the sick bowl we have for his brother/saying he is going to be sick. He also undoes the seat belt, but that is at the very beginning, so before driving.

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow I have seen people have it mentioned in information from an OT, paed, clinical psychologist, psychiatrist, EP, and/or GP.

For DS removing the seatbelt, have you got a crelling harness?

Oh that’s super helpful and isn’t something I’ve ever come across before, thank you! I’m going to get one set up for DS. I find you can never have too much information with you especially when they unexpectedly get admitted into hospital so this is great

can never have too much information

Definitely @MinnieTruck.

DSs are well known at our regular hospitals and very well looked after, so the summary documents/passports aren’t as necessary at those hospitals as they are at hospitals we are not regulars at, but I always find new HCPs grateful for the information. It makes life easier for us too and saves having to repeat information over and over again.

I’ve just logged into the Hub to fill out the ‘All About Me’ section before I went to bed and wanted to see if any other professionals have submitted their reports yet. They hadn’t but I’ve seen that Audiology and Neurology have been added under the list of ‘requests for advice!!’ So even though the LA got back to me and said that the Paediatrician will liaise with the relevant departments, that clearly isn’t the case.

I’m not sure if it’s because I also sent my email to the director of children’s services but someone has finally listened to me! They have to submit advice and information by the 14th of November. We were meant to receive a decision on the 7th of November as to whether the LA will issue or not so no doubt that’ll push us back a bit but I’m not too bothered about that. Glad that Audiology and Neurology will be able to have a say too

Good news, appeal successful. Now assessment...

Hi all, appealing section f of ehcp. We have independent reports but cannot afford those who have completed the reports to provide evidence at the hearing. We have submitted their reports to sendist and were planning on representing ourselves and outlining what's in the reports also. Is this allowed?! Are there any restrictions?
Thanks all, again!

If you can, get whoever is really key to come if you can afford even just one. Check if they are tribunal experienced though. Sometimes the LA knowing a witness is coming is enough to stop them mucking about and get stuff in the working document.

There is nothing to stop you representing yourselves.

Our OT wasn't at ours and the judge ordered that the LA seek advice from her afterwards on specific points like could exercises be done in/out of classroom. She provided an addendum to her report to give this.

We had a very positive experience. The LA was woefully under prepared and we got to put our points across. The judge and panel were excellent at mediating and deciding on the basis of law.

The LA was a laughing stock tbh. It looked very bad on them.

@246810k havinh professionals attend the hearing as witnesses isn’t essential. All evidence will still be considered. You don’t need to have representation either.

Hi everyone, it's been a while! Hope everyone is doing well and your DC too. DD has been at her new nursery for a few weeks now and so far, so good. She really enjoys going in and has bonded really well with her 1:1. Fingers crossed it continues. She has now received her ASD diagnosis and also had her first paeds appointment recently and they prescribed melatonin and agreed to carry out genetic testing.

I have now received the working document and the LA response to my appeal, they pretty much just said they're opposing my appeal to B and F as some aspects of the private SLT and OT reports were challenged by the respective NHS teams who looked at the reports. They're also bringing them in as witnesses - is this normal procedure? NHS SLT have met DD once and NHS OT have never met her.

There was going to be a meeting with me, SENCo, NHS OT, NHS SLT and the LA to discuss the private reports and now the LA said they can't attend as the formal appeal process in underway and the time to have such discussions was mediation (which I declined). Just sounds like a lame excuse. I'm still going to try and have the meeting without them, but now wonder if the NHS teams will still attend if the LA are asking them to be witnesses?

I have started amending the working document. They sent me version 1, so is what I send back version 2?

I would also be grateful if anyone could share their experiences of how the appeal hearing was for them and any advice on how to best prepare. I am appealing B and F and the two main things I want to be added to the EHCP are sensory integration therapy (recommended by private OT) and direct speech and language therapy (recommended by private SLT). I will be representing myself and neither the private OT or SLT will be able to act as witnesses. The hearing is June 2025. Thanks for reading!

@Ponche the LA having professionals as witnesses can be normal.

Yes, you send v2 back. Each time you get the WD back, check it very carefully. LAs sometimes delete/add things sneakily without using the correct formatting. They shouldn’t, but they do. It can help to use the Compare function on Word.

Don’t worry about the hearing itself now - you might not even get that far. Focus on ensuring your evidence is watertight and the WD.

We are currently appealing at tribunal. I asked the la to consult with a specialist although I know they are quite full at present and I have yet to receive a response to consult. Would it be worth me asking the la to consult for a sept 2025 start? Or should I wait to see what the new response to appeal is

@Mummytodo I would wait to see what the consult says. You may be looking at a Sept 25 start anyway, depending on when your hearing is.

Is the school wholly independent? If not, the law says the preferred school must be named unless:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

On its own, being ‘full’ (which isn’t defined in law) is not enough of a reason to refuse to name your preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible. A higher bar than many LAs and schools wish to admit.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you the hearing is not until June 25. As you saw I posted the other day the court allowed it as parental preference and how I understand it now is that the la must provide a response to the amended appeal as well as consultation response.

It is a maintained specialist school. A school for autism specifically my daughter has an array of difficulties her autism presents and I think this school would be able to cater to her needs best because of this.

At present the la still maintain that a mainstream is suitable but the mainstream have already said they can't meet need. I got a letter from the head teacher confirming this highlighting sections of section f they can't fulfill and sent it as part of my evidence and prior to this I had requested the ASD school. When I submitted the evidence I advised I hadn't had any engagement to the working document nor had they provided consult response then a few days later Sendist sent the order that I posted the other day x

@Ponche We represented ourselves for B and F and it was fine. Stick to facts, get to know your reports well. Ours took 2 and a half hours and we felt as if we were given time and space to express DS's needs and the provision the professionals had advised. The LA caseworker was inept, he didn't have a good grasp of the needs, he didn't even have all the reports/evidence and the judge asked us to email one to him as previous caseworker hadn't passed it on.

They actually agreed most stuff before in the WD but in the last 2 weeks raised a separate issue with another area of provision (school had been trying to wriggle out of). Some of the comments were laughable. head of DS's dept said he had no motor skills issues as he had won 2 races on sports day (cohort of other children with SEND and likely to have motor skills issues themselves). I asked if she had read the 16 page report from the OT where she noted motor skills ABC movement were in bottom 1%?

The LA sent a lead EP but she confessed she had never met DS. The judge asked her why she was there, and when the EP splutterered something about commenting on psychological aspects (there were none in our appeal) the judge told her she could stand down and leave the meeting.

There was a spurious argument by LA that DS should do homework when EP report said not. When asked by me school said their policy was not to give homework to any of the children due to overwhelm anyway! I pointed out that the LA could simply have talked to school on that point and if I remember correctly I think the judge agreed!

I think if the judge could have rolled her eyes she would have. What a pointless waste of time and public money (and ours), it was all nonsense but we actually came out with more than we went in with. It was stressful for a couple of weeks before hand but I would be confident doing another one now and representing ourselves.