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SEN

Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

EHCP support thread no. 3

1000 replies

Phineyj · 17/05/2024 14:38

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

EHCP support thread | Mumsnet

My DD (10) is being assessed for EHCP. The council refused to assess (despite her already being diagnosed with ADHD, ASD, hypermobility and vision pro...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

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SpaceInvader321 · 20/05/2024 21:36

@BrumToTheRescue Yes, will start the appeal process tomorrow.

Another of the schools that was supposedly consulted weeks ago cc'd me on their reply to the LA today, and I could see that the case worker's message from last week was very clearly not chasing an earlier consultation request; it was requesting the consultation. Sent on the day we were supposed to finalise.

How can there be no consequences to the LAs for doing this sort of thing?

Meanwhile, here are some of the reasons three MS secondaries have said they can't meet DS's needs:

not possible to give sensory breaks or sensory circuits

no 1-2-1 possible as it doesn't promote independence which they say is the point of the EHCP. I don't think that is actually the point of the EHCP. One of the schools said they don't offer 1-2-1 but then it's included in their SEN policy report as one of the adaptations they make.

no dedicated quiet area for SEN kids

no laptops available

no precision teaching or pre-teaching possible

small group support is only available once a week for 20 minutes

too many EHCPs already; our first choice school accepted 10 in the general admissions round, which is about average for area schools, and they have 11 EHCPs on average per year group across the school.

20% of students are on the SEN register.

teachers are stressed out and their suicide risk is 42% higher than the general population.

These are mostly from 'outstanding' state academies.

BrumToTheRescue · 20/05/2024 21:55

@SpaceInvader321 most of their reasons are rubbish. The support they say can’t be provided absolutely can be provided.

LAs like to use dependence as a reason to refuse 1:1. They like to claim the research supports them, but that is misrepresenting the research and LAs know it. A TA who is sufficiently trained and deployed correctly doesn’t have to lead to dependence. Used correctly a 1:1 will promote independent (within what is possible in the context of the individual pupil’s SEN - some DC with EHCPs are never going to be independent).

The LA would have to provide solid evidence of incompatibility rather than just saying the school has too many EHCPs and 20% on the SEN register. 10 pupils and 20% aren’t off the scale high.

SpaceInvader321 · 20/05/2024 21:59

@Bendattheknees Been looking at a specialist school. They won't accept visits, will answer questions by email only. They can only be put forward and named by the LA on the final EHCP. We queried how they can be named if we don't know anything about their environment or have a feel to see if a good fit for our son but they're not budging.

We've found this to be the case with most MS and the one SS we consulted. They refuse to interact at all, so you're left guessing or basing a very important decision on second-hand anecdotal evidence, which creates such an uncomfortable sense of uncertainty.

Proserphina · 20/05/2024 22:02

@SpaceInvader321 and @alltheyearround your posts tonight are heart-breaking and maddening in equal measure. There is a lawlessness here, right at the heart of these SLTs, that is really disturbing.

Love and solidarity to All Flowers

SpaceInvader321 · 20/05/2024 22:12

@BrumToTheRescue Exactly what I was thinking re independence. My child needs the right support now, so that he can reach the point where it's no longer necessary. He will definitely be able to achieve independence, though he may never be great at Maths. I'm not even 100% comfortable with consulting with SS because I think he just needs a good MS setting, with some solid support. The only reason he's had EBSA this year is bc his primary did so little to help him and then piled on the SATS pressure. Before this year he had never missed a day of school for MH reasons.

@Proserphina Sending love and support right back at you, and everyone else.

Alltheyearround · 20/05/2024 22:22

@Proserphina Both the LA and the SLT such as SENCO and Head are well aware of the law and the requirements and yet time after time we get unlawful comments.

Head has said on more than one occasion why can't we (parents) do some interventions at home.

Oh gosh, well, that had never occurred to us. What a simple solution, now we can all go home with a smile.

You feel like saying you do know what an EHCP is, don't you?

But of course they know. It is smoke and mirrors and plenty of good old gas lighting.

Mmm,Yes, we can meet needs (well, when we want to, if we have someone spare and if the LA gave us more £).

Arghh.

Alltheyearround · 20/05/2024 22:29

We also get the following EHCP nonsense bingo points from the AR.

22 Ducks in a row - Victim blaming

Maybe he isn't capable of achieving more than this (meteorically slow progress, not helped by withdrawing him from 1 provision to deliver another provision).

All the 4's 44 - suggestive undermining of a professional report.

Oh a 2 hour OT appointment, gosh that must have been very tiring for him to focus on for that long (i.e results must have been skewed as we don't see any motor needs here).

More strength to your collective elbows in fighting this pea souper of intentional fog day in, day out.

Phineyj · 21/05/2024 07:19

@SpaceInvader321 @Alltheyearround ye gods, I feel like I should apologise on behalf of the teaching profession 😞.

SEN parents and children are not responsible for the state of education (it should hardly need saying...)

It's been a real eye opener having a SEN child. I sometimes feel like I'm "undercover".

In the meantime, please know you are making a difference, even if it doesn't feel like it.

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Ponche · 21/05/2024 10:49

@BrumToTheRescue thank you very much, that’s really helpful, I’ll start pulling all that together.

Jaffacakesrlife · 21/05/2024 12:07

Hi all
my sons EHCP was accepted (sat here sobbing) now to get the draft anyone have any tips or websites to help with the draft?
Thanks

BrumToTheRescue · 21/05/2024 12:32

@Jaffacakesrlife when you get the draft go through all the reports, which should all be in K, with a fine toothcomb and highlighters.

Highlight all DS’s special educational needs in one colour and then all the provision to meet the needs in another colour. Each need should have corresponding provision.

Then go through the draft and make sure all the highlighted needs are in B and the highlighted provision is in F.

Make a note of anything the LA has omitted from the draft, any needs without corresponding provision, any woolly and vague wording, anything the reports have failed to include, and any reports the LA has failed to include.

When you go through F, look out for vague and woolly wording. For example, “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”. Provision must be detailed, specified and quantified, otherwise the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

When (it is a matter of when, not if) you find vague and woolly wording, check the reports to see if they are woolly and vague or whether the LA has watered down provision. If the reports are vague and woolly, ask the LA to go back to the report writers to make the reports detailed, specified and quantified. If the LA has watered down provision, request the LA stick to the wording in the reports.

Also make sure any health or social care provision that educates or trains is in F. For example, LAs like to put things like SALT, OT, physio, etc. in G (health care provision) when it belongs in F.

It is worth reading this IPSEA checklist of what sections the EHCP should include. EHCPs don’t have any other sections e.g. Section L or O despite some LAs trying to invent them.

Jaffacakesrlife · 21/05/2024 13:50

@BrumToTheRescue thank you so much, that is so helpful.
Very grateful xx

Alltheyearround · 21/05/2024 16:07

@Phineyj It's worth saying we have had some amazing teachers along the way who have, along with a head and SENCO at primary who were excellent and helped us and DS in the early stages of identifying SEN and getting an EHCP.

To any teachers reading - your help, honesty and understanding matters immensely.

Saw retired SENCO last year in the park, she said she had to get out before she became too jaded by the way the current system operates! She was quite stern in demeanor, but boy did she know SEND and how to spot it, and I imagine she was a fierce advocate for children.

She had DS doing extra motor skills play in reception before we had even picked up a book on dyspraxia.

addies · 21/05/2024 18:25

@SpaceInvader321 sorry to jump on, but I've just read your incredibly helpful list of reasons MS secondary's have said they can't meet your DSs need and panicked a bit. Am I getting this right? That an EHCP could actually backfire and result in my DD being blocked from the MS secondary that she wants to go to? Some of the reasons you gave are things that I anticipate my DD would need; quite area, breaks, etc (currently getting these as RA at primary). It never occurred to me that a MS could then turn around and refuse the child. Sorry if I've got this wrong, finding my way, as I've mentioned!

Phineyj · 21/05/2024 18:43

Hi @addies sadly this could be correct.

This is the position I'm in at the moment.

Goodness knows we all need a crystal ball to decide what's best to do, a lot of the time!

I think even if it's just to clarify your own thinking and never shared, a list of the provisions/interventions/aspects of school that are most crucial for your DC is probably worth thinking about, because it may not be possible to get all of them, or not in the short term anyway.

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BrumToTheRescue · 21/05/2024 18:49

@addies for schools who aren’t wholly independent, the LA must name your preferred placement unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
If the LA can’t prove this they can and must name the school even if the school objects. Although LAs sometimes refuse and force parents to appeal. Once a school is named in section I they must admit (if they feel strongly they may try going to the Secretary of State and JR).

Alltheyearround · 21/05/2024 18:58

Similar to what's happening to us.

MS school now saying they can't meet needs (i.e. if they have to actually follow the plan with 1:1 on it, which has been on since he started there 3 years ago...)

They could meet needs if only we didn't insist on the pesky plan, in other words.

Alltheyearround · 21/05/2024 18:59

Apparently 'meeting needs' can have several interpretations.

addies · 21/05/2024 19:00

@BrumToTheRescue @Phineyj thanks both. It simply never occurred to me. So grateful for this thread. You are right @Phineyj the crystal ball is very much needed. I thought I was going down this route to try and get RAs being made in a MS primary, possible at secondary. We should get into the local secondary on catchment (by the skin of our teeth). It's the best school for DD in many ways as it's extremely close to our house, it's a 'good' school, her best (and only) friend will likely go there, it's half the size of other less local secondary's. However, it has a bad reputation for SEN. However, every single other secondary 'local' to us (not walkable) are part of the same academy. So they are all crap. Hence my desire to try and get an EHCP. I'm now worrying that they'll absolutely block us if they can.
What if she is already attending the school if a successful EHCP happens? God, i'm now questioning ecerything!

BrumToTheRescue · 21/05/2024 19:04

@addies it is worth remembering the threshold for the LA proving one of the exceptions is higher than LAs and many schools believe, or at least would like to believe, and that ultimately it isn’t the school or LA making the final decision. The same rules apply to EHCPs finalised for pupils already on the school’s roll.

Proserphina · 21/05/2024 19:23

It might be quicker, if everyone who has NOT been told this week, in response to an element of a finalised EHCP, that school will no longer be able to meet their child's needs if this provision is enforced, could raise their hand?

Phineyj · 21/05/2024 20:26

It is a bit of a conundrum, the regular admissions being a different system to the EHCP admissions. It maybe worked, kind of, in the past, when it didn't take two years to get an EHCP, but it certainly doesn't work now!

I really wouldn't have been able to think about what school would have been suitable in year 7 when DD was in year 4.

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UnendingSaga · 21/05/2024 20:39

The current system definitely doesn’t work. But I still think for many cases it’s better to have the EHCP than not.

UnendingSaga · 21/05/2024 20:49

Many cases is understating it. Pretty much all tbh. I didn’t get one for my eldest and I think that worked out fine as the secondary school is incredibly supportive and does the things needed automatically (pass to leave lessons, access to the SEN room). If that wasn’t the case I’d be wanting one.

Phineyj · 21/05/2024 20:51

I agree. As a very wise friend told me, it's better to get one rather than wait till a crisis.

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