EHCP support thread no. 3

[Phineyj]

A new thread for when no. 2 is full up.
Link to thread no. 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
Link to thread no. 2:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

I am the mum of an 11 year old girl with SEN and have spent the last 20 months battling for my local authority to issue an EHCP to support her transition from primary to secondary school. We are currently after draft stage after two tribunals. I've had so much useful advice and moral support from posters on here.

This new thread is here to help everyone, whether you're just starting out or are a battle-hardened veteran of years of this.

There is no such thing as a stupid question and there are many acronyms and technical terms so please ask for an explanation of anything that you don't understand.

SEN: special educational needs (sometimes SEND: special educational needs and disability)
SENCO: teacher at school charged with overall responsibility for students on roll with SEN
ECHNA: education care and health needs assessment - the process of a local authority commissioning reports to find out a child's needs
EHCP: the education care and health plan that details a child's needs and the agreed provision to meet them; a legally binding document
SENDIST: the special educational needs and disability tribunal - an independent appeal panel which considers parental appeals against Education Authority decisions about special educational needs.

EHCP support thread no. 4 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4 we've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one.

First half term of year 7 has gone fairly well here and I'm cautiously optimistic. DC got outstanding (attitude) in 4 subjects for first report including Maths, which has astonished me and DH (Maths homework caused many meltdowns at primary).

I feel like saying yah boo sucks to the grammar school parents in my social circle but that wouldn't be very nice so 🤷.

@Macramepotholder that is very puzzling.

They did SLT for us in summer last year and I would actually have accepted it not being included, as DD had SLT at her ADOS and they found she was a year ahead, so I was much more interested that they did OT thoroughly as that is DD's main non-directly educational need.

There wasn't even that much of a delay to be seen, but the call came through from a service with a random name so it took me a bit of sleuthing to work out it was SLT who'd called...

Anyway, I've WhatsApped you the name and email of the SLT they used for us, and she does appear to have a private practice.

@BrumToTheRescue Thank you. Can the send7 form be filed anytime before the hearing? ATM neither child wants to move school, so there would be a lot of resistance, esp from DD who has a handful of teachers she really likes. I would also like to see things work out where they are. The school has been making a lot of very positive changes on the SEND front and I'm wondering if they'll maybe let her reduce the number of GCSEs she does to remove some of the pressure she'll be under. Is there anyway I can make that happen?

Changing to a SS would also entail a lot more travel, which neither child is keen on... But if the cycle of half-termly burnout continues then maybe we'll have to deal with the longer journey. I'm also aware that time might be running out given that DD is in Y9.

@BrumToTheRescue thank you, will speak to the OT and see if they can write a statement.

Also just found out the LA have asked for a new NHS SLT assessment/report too.

Me and the SLT have differences of opinion on certain things, eg direct therapy, using a high-tech AAC device, gestalt language processing etc. So I can already tell the new report will be very vanilla.

Losing confidence in this appeal now.

@SpaceInvader321 a reduced curriculum can be included in the EHCP. Even if it isn’t in there, you may find the school is agreeable. Some even have a set pathway for fewer GCSEs. It is worth sounding them out now.

You can submit a SEND7 anytime. Although you should do it as sooner as you know you would like to request to add section I to the appeal. If you leave it right to the last minute, SENDIST may refuse.

@Ponche as difficult as it is, try to ignore the LA’s game playing. The LA’s antics are about putting you off continuing with the appeal.

If you are interested in AAC, did you go to the Communication Matters International AAC Conference in Leeds last month? If not, it is worth looking out for next year. It is worth travelling even if you aren’t near Leeds. I think they still do subsidised places for families/AAC users.

Thanks @BrumToTheRescue , we're new to ACC so wasn't aware of the conference, but will definitely have a look for next year, as we're not far from Leeds.

Just had a couple of more questions. Is it ever the case during hearings that the judge/panel consider both NHS and independents equally and relevant needs/provisions from both are included in the EHCP? Or is it only ever one or the other?

By the time we have the hearing in June 2025, my independent OT and SLT reports will be 13 months old. Would these be considered outdated?

If so, how late is too late to submit new independent reports? Final evidence deadline is end of Nov but LA are requesting an extension.

I will need to factor in affordability and also wouldn't want new ones to be done too soon. But also wouldn't want to be told it's too late to submit any additional evidence.

Or is this over-assessment, as it'd be 2-3 reports within the space of 12 months?

The LA said they’re not suggesting the existing evidence is insufficient, but want to understand DD’s needs within the context of the local offer. But I feel the NHS teams have already explained their local offer via their feedback on the reports.

And can I quote this in my response: 4) The local authority must not seek any of the advice referred to in paragraphs (1)(b) to (h) if such advice has previously been provided for any purpose and the person providing that advice, the local authority and the child's parent or the young person are satisfied that it is sufficient for the purposes of an EHC needs assessment.

If they’re not saying the current evidence is insufficient, why the need for new reports?

Good luck with it all @Ponche 🤞🏾

Just wanted to jump in here as there seems to be some confusion regarding who’s responsible for providing the SLT hours written in section F.

DD has had the same SALT for about a year and a half now. Her therapist said that usually what happens is, schools will have their own private therapist to go into the child’s school to follow the EHCP and it’s not something that she would do. However, the SENCO at DD’s nursery has said that as they’re a nursery and not a school, they don’t have access to any SALTs. Is there a way to get clarity on how the hell this is supposed to work?

DS’ SALT has confirmed with the SENCO has said which makes me think that maybe DD’s SALT is possibly getting things wrong? It’s strange that two therapists that work for the NHS are both telling me different things!

@MinnieTruck ultimately, the LA is responsible. Speak to the LA. Sometimes the LA will fulfil their duty via the NHS, sometimes it will be via a setting's in-house SALT or an outside provider the setting uses, sometimes it will be via a provider the LA has a contract with, sometimes it will be via a private provider who doesn't have a widespread contract and is just commissioned for that pupil (or a couple of pupils), sometimes it will be via direct payments... but, ultimately, it is the LA's responsibility. That duty is non-delegable.

@Ponche SENDIST will consider all evidence. It is quite normal for some aspects of both cases to be used.

As long as the report is still up to date, 13 months would mostly still be considered up to date, especially if you can get the HCP to write a state or addendum counteracting any points raised in the NHS report subsequently done. In the past, reports were considered up to date for around 2 years, but over the last several years SENDIST has considered reports much younger out of date. I have known some cases where SENDIST has considered reports 13 months old out of date. Where possible, I try to ensure reports are no more than 18 months old. Depending on the case, for those older than more than 12 months, I try to get an addendum or statement covering any changes/points the LA has raised - it really depends on the case because it isn’t always needed even if it is possible.

You can request late evidence is admitted up to and including on the morning of the hearing. You should try to avoid being that late, though. Most late evidence is accepted, but there is the chance submitting that late would not be accepted or the LA would use it to request a delay.

Needs and provision in B&F are based on what DD’s actual needs and the provision reasonably required. Not on what the LA includes in their local offer. Point that out to the LA. They don’t need to compare what DD needs as part of a content appeal to what is available in the local offer.

Thanks so much @BrumToTheRescue , will include that in my reply. Could you signpost me to where I can find the bit about ‘what is reasonably required, not what’s available locally’. Remember coming across that before but can’t find it and don’t remember if it’s in the SEND Regs or SEN CoP.

Thank you @BrumToTheRescue I appreciate the reply as I know you’re helping a lot of people at the moment!

So I’ll get in touch with the co-ordinator who dealt with DD’s EHCP? Are they then able to get in touch with the nursery to let them know how the SALT hours will be accessed or how will that work? Maybe it’s a good idea to email the co-ordinator from the LA and CC in the SENCO and DD’s SALT….

@MinnieTruck you are welcome. CC’ing in the SENCO and SALT is a good idea. The LA should then ensure the provision is provided, whether that is at nursery or not, and let you know. If it isn’t happening at nursery, the LA may not tell them. Sometimes even if the provision does take place at nursery, the nursery isn't told until the SALT turns up! After all, they are known for their poor communication skills.

@Ponche all needs must be in section B. All needs must have corresponding SEP in F. This is stated in 9.69 of the SENCOP and underpinned by reg 12 of the SEND Regs 2014 and section 37 of the Children and Families Act 2014. It doesn’t say all needs must have corresponding SEP except where the SEP is available as ordinarily available provision as per the local offer.

The definition of SEP is set out in section 21 of the Children and Families Act 2014.
“”Special educational provision”, for a child aged two or more or a young person, means educational or training provision that is additional to, or different from, that made generally for others of the same age in—
(a) mainstream schools in England,
(b) maintained nursery schools in England,
(c) mainstream post-16 institutions in England, or
(d) places in England at which relevant early years education is provided.
(2) “Special educational provision”, for a child aged under two, means educational provision of any kind.
(3) “Health care provision” means the provision of health care services as part of the comprehensive health service in England continued under section 1(1) of the National Health Service Act 2006.”

It doesn’t say SEP is ‘educational or training provision that is additional to, or different from, that made generally for others of the same age except for where it is included in the local offer.'

When looking at what is SEP now, the reference point is what is provided in mainstream schools in England as a whole. Unlike previous laws which looked more locally. You can also see this by looking at when it is legally necessary to issue an EHCP. It may also help to understand that SEP in F is based on the child’s needs, not on what the school can provide (whether part of the local offer or not). This goes back to R v Kingston upon Thames and Hunter [1997] ELR 223 at 233C. This is about Statements of SEN, but the same principle still applies. The Noddy guide explains this more.

Reasonably required comes from A v Hertfordshire CC [2006] EWHC 3428. There is further case law in the Noddy guide if you want to read further about the LA’s duty.

This SOSSEN pdf may help you. “EHCPs should match provision to needs, not vice versa.” It goes on to specifically mention SALT. And this IPSEA checklist.

@BrumToTheRescue I’ve sent an email now so I’ll see what they say!

A few weeks ago, I completed an online application for primary schools that I was interested in for DD. I can see that her EHCP has been opened on the plan and a request has been sent to one of the schools to name them on the plan.

They were given 15 days to provide a response and the deadline is today however they haven’t come back with anything yet. Is this normal? I start to get really anxious when dates and deadline’s aren’t adhered too. I practically had to stop myself from calling the school and asking why they hadn’t responded yet how long do I wait before I find someone to chase this up?!

@MinnieTruck It’s not uncommon for schools not to reply on time. If the school hasn’t responded by the end of next week, give the school a call.

You haven’t had the phase transfer review yet, have you? Just so you know, you can change your preference because legally you didn’t have to fill in the form. You only have to state your preferred placement as part of the review process.

Oh wow @BrumToTheRescue , thank you so, so much. That’s all really helpful. I have saved these resources and will go through them in detail when finalising my evidence. I’ve replied to the LA and just waiting to hear back.

@Ponche Try not to get bogged down in it. SENDIST know SEP is based on the individual, not on what is available locally. The LA know too. They are trying to pull a fast one.

Gosh, how stressful. I’ve been frantically logging into the online Hub like a mad woman all day. I’ll wait until next week but hope they’ll update it by the end of this week at least!

I’ve got the phase transfer review in exactly a week’s time. The reason why I’m so stressed is because (I think I said this to you before) I only applied for one school which is a SS. I thought the LA may have got in touch with me asking to include a MS too but they didn’t. So the fact that they’ve requested to name the SS has me on edge. I really hope they can accommodate DD based on her needs.

I’ll just have to keep on waiting and reiterate my chosen placement if I haven’t heard from the school by the time next week Wednesday comes around

@MinnieTruck ah, yes, I remember now. We have spoken about this before when we discussed you don’t need to give more than one school, a mainstream as well as a special school, or complete the LA’s form.

We were supposed to hear about DS assessment on Monday, if they were going to issue EHCP but nothing. I emailed them Tuesday to remind them they were falling behind their timeline, still nothing. DH wants me to email case worker again today but won't they just ignore me again? Bloody tired of fighting for his basic needs. I know so many are in the same boat but it's not fair on our kids.

@Crystallizedring I would email again. Copy in the DCS. If you know who it is, you could also copy in the Monitoring Officer. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

@BrumToTheRescue
The LA are consulting with 2 schools. 1 is my choice the 2nd my husbands choice for DD.
DD's teaching assistant advised me not to go for 2nd choice school as she believes the school isn't suitable for DD.
Would the LA send DD to a school if I'm not in agreement?? Thank you

@Onegentlepeer the LA can name a school in an EHCP without your or DH’s agreement. If you disagree, you can appeal. It can get more complex if you and DH disagree on preference and could lead to it having to be resolved by the family court.

Naming the school on an EHCP does not automatically lead to DD having to attend. You can choose to EHE or make your own suitable arrangements. Naming the school does not automatically register DD at the school either. This was previously covered in Regulation 5(3) of the Pupil Registration Regulations 2006 and spoke of the ‘expected first day of attendance’. It is now covered by Regulations 4&5 of The School Attendance (Pupil Registration) (England) Regulations 2024 and talks about the ‘starting day’. The government’s ’working together to improve attendance’ guidance still talks of the expected first day of attendance in paragraph 207 onwards. The government’s EHE guidance also states “it is up to the child’s parent whether to arrange for the child to be registered as a pupil at the school” in 8.10. Michael Charles wrote a good piece on not automatically being registered just because a school is named in I.

I have a phase transfer review meeting on Wednesday with the SENCO at DD’s nursery. Is there anything in particular I need to do/keep in mind? I’ve been doing some research and it all seems to be pretty straightforward

@MinnieTruck go through all the advice and information that has been submitted. It can help to make notes of what you want to say/ask/anything important. Relooking at the timescales will help so you know if someone tells you something incorrect at the meeting. Also, knowing you do not have to state a mainstream school.

@BrumToTheRescue got you, thank you as always!