AIBU to be angry at school so early in...

[misskellyb]

My son is being assessed for autism and a strong possibility of ADHD (can't assess yet as he's too young).

He has a lot of sensory processing difficulties. One of these being toileting. He has just started reception at a small, one form school and is still in nappies. He is on daily laxatives and regularly soils. Therefore he is still in nappies. He will not toilet train. If he wears pants (and sometimes even when wearing nappies - if he's in uncomfortable environments) he will withhold his wee and poo up until the point of getting so unwell he requires enemas at hospital or ends up with severe stomach pains from not weeing. When he has pants on he has a tendency to poo his pants with the overflow of poo and requires changing of his clothes and pants regularly.

He had his first day in reception yesterday. He had his nappy changed once and was introduced to the toilet but showed no interest in following his peers and using it. I'm hoping in time he will be comfortable enough to start using a toilet at school. However today, when we got home I noticed his nappy was still in his bag and his nappy hadn't been changed and was full of wee and poo. I will be raising this with the school tomorrow.

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no, so he was left to play all day in a wooly jumper with a soiled, wet nappy( I was unaware of the nappy being unchanged at this time).

As he does have additional needs I've asked the teacher if they will feed back to me regularly how he is getting on as his speech is somewhat delayed. The teacher said that they have 30 other children so this isn't possible. AIBU to be abit annoyed about this? I acknowledge their high numbers of children however surely for SEN children they can find a way to prioritise feeding back to parents, weekly, fortnightly, monthly? She said no news is good news so if I hear nothing all is fine. But the news that my sons nappy wasn't changed today and the news that he wouldn't change out of his school jumper is surely news I should be made aware of and not having to find out for myself?

AIBU to be annoyed they left him in a dirty nappy all day? Especially in this heat! They have a duty of care and this is just neglect. He will be prone to infections if this carries on and possibly bullying if other children smell or notice the nappy. The school have had multiple meetings with me regarding his needs and his continence issues. I spoke the school on his first day yesterday to make sure the reception teachers were aware he needs his nappy changed and support around toileting and they assured me this is fine. They also have clinic letters from paediatricians and the continence team outlining that my son will need regular toilet breaks and support around toileting and changing.

I try everything at home to encourage toileting. But toileting issues have been his whole life. We've tried everything and I mean, everything. To the point where no more reward charts, sensory toys, or bribery will encourage him and it's just a waiting game for it to be on his terms but in the process I don't want him facing difficulties at school for this and personal hygiene issues.

You'd think second day in they'd be on the ball as well and I'm just worried this is the start of problems to come.

@Dilapidateddilapidate thank you. Ive been considering home education myself but would love to give him the opportunity to go to school.

And also there's so many responses - thank you all. I didn't realise I'd get so many so will try and respond when I can but grateful for all advice and input!

I’m sorry op. But Your child’s needs probably can’t be met in mainstream school. They clearly need a specialist provision. They have a high level of need.

you need to fight for an EHCP and select a special school for him to go to. This will be in his best interests long term.

find your local Sen support group. They advocated for Sen kids getting ehcps etc. the local council and your school should have information on who they are. By law they have to have one.

start here to give you an idea what you need https://www.kids.org.uk/sendiass

they will support you getting the right placement for him.

I’m not turning up to my 1-1 tomorrow. It’s been 3 days and I am so, so, so stressed. I can’t even sleep. He is so dysregulated (he’s now in year 1) Completely incontinent (multiple nappy changes). He screams and kicks off and claws me and himself when I have to change him as he hates it. I have scratches and bite marks all over me. He has screamed and lashed out for 3 days straight and he’s also non verbal. I literally cannot take it anymore. I have no idea what his class teacher is going to do tomorrow.

Hes on a waiting list for a special school place like many, many others in our LA. The situation is just desperate. I’m done.

Another person saying, gently, this really really doesn't sound like the right setting at all. It appears they can't or don't want to meet (significant) need. I would be using this time to gather evidence (and quickly) to support a better placement, very probably specialist. You can and should apply for an EHCNA now yourself. Do not wait for the school to do it.

Right, I’m a primary headteacher. Here’s what I advise.
1- Ring and ask for a meeting with the school SENCO. Every school legally has to has one and their name will be on the school
website so you know who to ask for.
2- Don’t be unnecessarily cross with the teacher/ TA. You’ve complained about the lack of support from nursery so it could well be that there has been a lack of handover/ transition. Unless there is gross negligence, I assure you the Reception staff are just doing their best.
3- When you meet with the SENCO, you need to complete an intimate care plan to allow staff to change your child. I actually wouldn’t let my staff change without one as it’s opening up a massive safeguarding can of worms. That needs to be done as a matter of urgency. And yes actually, I would want 2 members of staff to do it. To safeguard everyone. Children and staff
4- when you meet with the SENCO, ask them to refer you to the school nurse continence team for support. Also ask your GP for support.
5- ask the SENCO to refer to the social communication team to offer you more support on your ASD pathway
6- Don’t do another EHCPNA yourself. I know there is parental right to submit them, but a vast number of these fail- as yours did. There is a craft to doing them. One jointly written and support from an experienced SENCO will have a higher chance of success. As you are in a new setting, the school will
still be asked for their opinion/ recommendations/ support plan so please do it together to show a united front. The school can also submit a costed provision map worth it to get more chance of success for funding.
7- Contact SENDIAS in your local authority- they are very helpful.

Sorry for any typos and well done to anyone who made it through!

Also many schools do manage to change children's nappies so it's completely untrue that the school can not possibly do this.

But that's the point, the support isn't there.
Personally I love that my child's mainstream school has all kinds of kids with varying abilities / challenges / needs, but if my child's teacher / TA in a class of 30 was spending 1+ hours on a single child to change their nappies & contact the parents - regularly - I'd be cross.

It's very strange that so many posters believe there are loads of special schools just waiting with spaces to take 4 year olds with no diagnosis and no EHCP just on the basis that they need nappy changing.

Parents have to FIGHT for special school places, FIGHT for EHCPs, apply, appeal, go to tribunals.
It's not like the OP was offered a lovely special school place and decided not to bother.

@misskellyb please ignore all the posters telling you your child shouldn't be able to go to school. Shocking there are still so many awful attitudes to disabled children out there.

I’d be angry to OP.

Please reach out to your local area parent / cater forum as they should be able to help.

Ask for a meeting with the SENCO. Ask for an IEP (individual education plan).

My DD had dyslexia and had an iep. Obviously not the same but more often than not the plan was never followed unless I made several requests so hopefully things will improve.

You say he is SEN, but he has no formal diagnosis. This sounds an absolute nightmare for you, but also for the teacher. You also need to offer support instead of blaming the teacher for not coping with these extra needs. I feel you should be offering to go in and change your son's nappy at break and lunch time. The staff should not be doing this.

Not in school - at least not when I was working 8 years ago. There wouldn't be the staff to do it.

If there is no dedicated 1-1 for the child it's pretty impossible for a teacher to change nappies and still teach. Before I retired I had a General TA who was supposed to take groups to teach but, in the first term, she spent all her time toileting three children in Reception with no TA of their own yet.

It's not OK but you need to have a reasoned discussion with the school, not the actual teacher who is up to her eyes in it, but with the Head and SenCo and try and get some support for your child.

Schools DO NOT have £6K available to spend on children with SEN! That is a myth. They receive approx £2k funding per pupil per year. That has to pay for everything - staffing, resources, maintenance of premises, heating bills, water bills etc etc.
My school had 5 children with complex SEN in reception last year. Only 3 of them got EHCPs despite our best efforts. Four of those children have full time 1:1 TAs for 32.5 hours a week which costs around £70K a year. The LA fund 20 hours a week, so school have to find 1/3 of the cost.

Contact this organisation https://www.ipsea.org.uk/. They will be able to advise you. You are given nothing by LAs because there is no money. You have to appeal but people don’t realise thus and don’t appeal. It’s a rubbish system. Thus organisation are amazing. They’re your first stop.

I would say his needs are too great for mainstream schooling without additional support. I’m shocked they’ve let you send him and said they can support .

I think they might be talking bollocks! Contact your nearest SENDIAS organization, ask to be referred immediately to a Parent Family Support Advisor (PFSA) and record every concern in writing via email. Based on my experience you will have to prepare for a long fight over the coming years. There are lots of resources online though and the people on the SEND mumsnet channels are great

There does need to be two present. It is to protect the child and the staff, it’s utter nonsense to say otherwise. In every setting with vulnerable people it is the norm and if it’s not in place then the school could be in serious trouble!

it may not be helpful as I don't know your protocol but my son had complex bowel surgery when he was a baby (he is younger than your son) and also has severe constipation and risk of impactation so is on strong laxatives but we tweaked his medication so all (bar a few if he's poorly etc.) his bowel movements are in the evening when he's home. I know it's not the most pressing issue with the school issues etc but maybe you could try some different solutions with his medicine to improve the soiling. Hope you find a solution

Me too. No wonder there’s a retention issue. One of the many problems.
It is totally unreasonable to expect teachers and teaching assistants to change nappies. I thought most nursery schools insisted on children being potty trained as changing nappies just isn’t their job! Not alone at primary school…! It’s an absolute scandal they closed so many specialist provisions, and slashed funding. Schools cannot cope. It isn’t practical or reasonable to expect it for either the teacher or child. Neither of their faults obviously, but the governments.
It’s all falling apart (very much like school buildings!). This is the tip of the ice burg, I think we’re very soon going to have a huge crisis. There’s already families with disabled children who have been totally let down they’ve felt no choice but to homeschool. SEN provisions are only going to get worse now there’s the beginning of the struggle to physically keep schools open due to risk of collapsing!

The level of support you're describing that your son needs is unheard of in a mainstream class of 30

Ha! It really, really isn't.

OP, if I were you I'd ask for this post to be moved to the SEN boards. There is a lot of misinformation on this thread. No, mainstream schools cannot legally exclude children for not being toilet trained. Yes, mainstream school staff can and do change nappies, and support with other aspects of personal care. Yes, it is their job.

Your DS needs an EHCP, but it is extremely common for the first application to be rejected even for DC with very high support needs. If the window for appeal has closed you need to re-apply. But in the meantime, the school will have to meet his needs and it is perfectly reasonable to ask them to change him regularly, ensure he is dressed appropriately for the weather and monitor his food intake. These are things plenty of mainstream schools do for kids with SEND every day, whether they have an EHCP or not.

OP picked it?!! You know you don’t get to just tick a box that says “special school please” when you apply for reception places right!?! OP probably had no choice at all.

In my county there are no special school places available. None. Nothing. For children with far more extreme (and more documented) needs than OP describes. The local authority admits they don’t even have the capacity to read all the paperwork being sent in for SEND children anymore, much less places for them.

You can spot a mile off the parents on here with no actual lived experience of having a child with SEND.

There really doesn't need to be 2 people present. Teacher here.

OP, I have nothing else to offer that other posters haven’t already covered but I just wanted to say, it sounds like your son is being incredibly brave by putting himself in this new situation and going in every morning when it is so different to what he is used to. You must be so proud of him.

Hi OP, first step is to meet with SENCo this week and get care plan drawn up. School nurses can help with this too. Your child will need an IEP with targets for this half term so school can quickly start the evidence gather. Whilst this is happening you need to appeal or reapply for the EHCP. You will often have to fight for these so start evidence gathering and getting supporting reports from professionals. Contact IPSEA for advice and support. Each LA has their own independent support service for SEN. Ours is called SENDIASS. Look on your local website to find out yours and contact them. School can apply for intervention funding as a short term fix (realistically it could take 40+ weeks for an EHCP to be issued) but again will need to evidence what support they have already tried. Do not off-roll. You could consider a part time timetable until more support is in place.

I have heard of this being accommodated in mainstream education. It is probably more common than you realise

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are helpful, but many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. Don’t listen to anyone trying to put you off requesting another EHCNA - sadly many LAs and school do try to put parents off.

Schools may want 2 members of staff, but that isn’t legally required and no DC should be left soiled because a school insists on 2 members of staff. ERIC specifically mention this in the link I posted in my pp.