AIBU to be angry at school so early in...

[misskellyb]

My son is being assessed for autism and a strong possibility of ADHD (can't assess yet as he's too young).

He has a lot of sensory processing difficulties. One of these being toileting. He has just started reception at a small, one form school and is still in nappies. He is on daily laxatives and regularly soils. Therefore he is still in nappies. He will not toilet train. If he wears pants (and sometimes even when wearing nappies - if he's in uncomfortable environments) he will withhold his wee and poo up until the point of getting so unwell he requires enemas at hospital or ends up with severe stomach pains from not weeing. When he has pants on he has a tendency to poo his pants with the overflow of poo and requires changing of his clothes and pants regularly.

He had his first day in reception yesterday. He had his nappy changed once and was introduced to the toilet but showed no interest in following his peers and using it. I'm hoping in time he will be comfortable enough to start using a toilet at school. However today, when we got home I noticed his nappy was still in his bag and his nappy hadn't been changed and was full of wee and poo. I will be raising this with the school tomorrow.

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no, so he was left to play all day in a wooly jumper with a soiled, wet nappy( I was unaware of the nappy being unchanged at this time).

As he does have additional needs I've asked the teacher if they will feed back to me regularly how he is getting on as his speech is somewhat delayed. The teacher said that they have 30 other children so this isn't possible. AIBU to be abit annoyed about this? I acknowledge their high numbers of children however surely for SEN children they can find a way to prioritise feeding back to parents, weekly, fortnightly, monthly? She said no news is good news so if I hear nothing all is fine. But the news that my sons nappy wasn't changed today and the news that he wouldn't change out of his school jumper is surely news I should be made aware of and not having to find out for myself?

AIBU to be annoyed they left him in a dirty nappy all day? Especially in this heat! They have a duty of care and this is just neglect. He will be prone to infections if this carries on and possibly bullying if other children smell or notice the nappy. The school have had multiple meetings with me regarding his needs and his continence issues. I spoke the school on his first day yesterday to make sure the reception teachers were aware he needs his nappy changed and support around toileting and they assured me this is fine. They also have clinic letters from paediatricians and the continence team outlining that my son will need regular toilet breaks and support around toileting and changing.

I try everything at home to encourage toileting. But toileting issues have been his whole life. We've tried everything and I mean, everything. To the point where no more reward charts, sensory toys, or bribery will encourage him and it's just a waiting game for it to be on his terms but in the process I don't want him facing difficulties at school for this and personal hygiene issues.

You'd think second day in they'd be on the ball as well and I'm just worried this is the start of problems to come.

School won’t be able to meet that level of need without extra adult support. They just don’t have the capacity. It isn’t really fair to expect the teacher to be changing the nappy of a child on laxatives!

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no

You have to work with the school here. If you know that clothing transitions are a huge trigger for him-so much so that he has to stay in his pyjamas all day, then you shouldn’t have put him in a jumper this morning. It’s been known all week how hot it was going to be today.

If his own parents can’t get him out of pyjamas some days, how are staff who don’t know him at all, expected to get him out of his jumper when he’s refusing??

@OvertakenByLego the window closed two weeks ago for an appeal. God I feel like I've failed by not appealing...

Something about assess, plan, do sticks in my head though.

Their argument is that there's not enough evidence in an educational setting to provide an EHCP. It was me who applied for the EHCP myself knowing his needs. I specifically asked if it's appropriate to let a child struggle in an educational setting until then and their answer was it's tough but necessary to get the 'right' EHCP if you like.

He went to nursery and although all these difficulties were evident then, he was there on minimal occasions. He went two mornings a week (3 hours a day) for about 8 months. However because socially he was improving as time went on I.e maintaining eye contact and some form of imaginary play and tolerating playing alongside peers, the nursery concerns decreased as time went on and they were not supportive in my ehcp application.

He has an obsession with fans and was playing with a fan dangerously at nursery. Switching it on and off repeatedly. Shaking it. Yanking the wire from the plug socket. He isn't safety or risk aware with electrics and is obsessed with repeatedly playing with electrical items, dangerously. The nursery left him unattended in this episode. I made the LA aware during the EHCP initial appointment but they didn't seem concerned and bounced back to the fact he can maintain eye contact, smile and tolerate play and his needs are not evidently high enough until two terms of school where they can gather more evidence on his difficulties.

Given the weather forecast I'm surprised you sent him in a jumper in the first place. If the school said they'd change his nappy then that should happen, no question. Sounds like he will need a 1 to 1 soon though.

If she takes him out she will struggle getting an EHCP.

op i would meet with the SENCO and lay out your concerns. Dont send him with a jumper for now.

Absolutely push for an EHCP. Unfortunately it's the squeakiest cog and all that.

That still doesn’t excuse schools requiring parents to go in. The statutory guidance is clear. The school should be supporting the OP to appeal the EHCP/re-request an EHCNA if no longer has the right of appeal. They can apply for high needs top up funding.

I agree with this. Is he your first child with special needs? It can be a real shock how shit the system actually is.

It really looks like the school setting without a 1 to 1 care assistant isn't the setting for your son unfortunately. A TA could not leave the room on 30 minute intervals to change nappies (you mentioned half hourly requirements occasionally), it would mean a huge part of the day was concentrated on your ds while neglecting the other children. You said you struggle to get your ds to change clothes but expected teachers/TA to convince him to remove a jumper, he doesn't know these people, he's in a new place and situation so even asking him to remove clothing may have been upsetting. Sadly I think you are going to have to fight for 1 to 1 care for him or a more suitable setting. I actually feel sorry for teachers/TA's if this is the stressful position they are put in by schools.

Of course it isn't unheard of to have children with toileting needs, speech issues and sensory issues in a mainstream class.
Where do you think those children go?
It's very common to have children who need 1:1 in mainstream, it's difficult to get a special school place - especially for a 4 year old with no diagnosis and no EHCP who hasn't even been supported in mainstream yet.

I also feel sorry for the class teacher and TAs. I bet it wasn't them who agreed that all these needs could be met.

I get where you are coming from but at the same time I think you are massively underestimating the chaos in a reception class especially at this point in the year.

for the changes he should have an intimate care plan in place.

school cant pin him down to get the jumper off him. Best idea is when the weather is like this put it in his book bag in the morning rather than sending him in with it on.

the food thing - I really do get it but from what you have said it seems a packed lunch of what you know he may eat is probably the best chance of him eating something.

you need to apply for an ehcp needs assessment ASAP. That is the only way to ensure needs are properly met moving forward.

Hi OP,

Reception teacher here! YANBU, you have every right to complain tomorrow. It is very distressing your child was left in a dirty nappy all day and I would be absolutely mortified if this took place on my watch.

I have multiple children with needs and one in nappies and we check him 3 times a day (he does have a 1:1 but it takes 2 to change him due to his needs). I’m not going to say it’s easy because it isn’t. Teaching has changed so much in the last 5 years as we accommodate more children with SEND need with very little support, however that is not your fault or your child’s and the school has a duty of care. I would absolutely have taken his jumper off too, even if he said no, I would have got another member of staff to swiftly remove it from him. It’s not acceptable.

I hope you get the answers you deserve and some reassurance this will not happen again.

I don't think it's possible to meet his needs in a class of 30,possibly even with a 1-1.
In no way would the teacher ever change a nappy, ta yes but only with special training and quals.

Apply yourself for an EHCP with your LA & ask them for funding aswell. Also tell them you want a referral to the SENIS team at your local LA is he under 5? Your health visitor will be able to help especially with paediatricians already involved. Is he under the incontinence team at the same hospital that he's is under the ASD team? Push for everything. I'd be so angry if I was you too.

Ask to speak to the senco asap:
Schools have £6k for sen children - they need to be putting more support in place
Ask to see their intimate care policy
Apply for a parental request for an EHCNA - you can do it don't need to wait for the school

Hi - agree with the other posters who suggested the school have been very unfair in suggesting they can manage his needs.

how is he academically? Can he write his name, count to 10, recite the alphabet, do basic phonics etc?
if yes then I can see why he may have struggled to get the echp as the other aspects may have been seen as secondary.

@misskellyb You haven’t failed.

Was it refusal to assess or refusal to issue? Request another EHCNA.

The appeal window only closed on the 1st as if the right of appeal ends in August it extends to the first working day of September. You could always try your luck and ask SENDIST if they will accept a late appeal.

For EHCP help, there’s helpful posters on the SN boards if you post there.

If you've missed the deadline for appeal then you need to apply for the EHCP plan again now. Don't wait the two terms. You're the only advocate your DS has and the school clearly cannot meet his needs.

I wouldn't just be annoyed about this I would be angry. It's neglectful. The wooly jumper could lead to heat stroke in this heat and if they couldn't convince him to take it off they should have called you and the soiled nappy could burn his skin and make him vulnerable to bullying. They absolutely should change it. He should have more then one nappy in his bag and it should be changed every few hours and after any poo.

I disagree about the guns blazing comments. I would go in guns blazing but calm so what I mean by that is I wouldn't be taking excuses as an acceptable answer but would remain friendly, calm but stern about it.

My son had to start school soiling himself due to a health condition. They tried to say they were not legally allowed to change him at all. This is not true. Then they tried to say they couldn't do it as they needed two members of staff, this again is legally not true. I ended up going in "guns blazing" in that I basically made an appointment with the head and refused to accept any excuses. I turned up with printed out legislation with highlighted sections and when the head tried to make excuses I basically calmly shut her down and said that it was neglect on their part and it wasn't acceptable. This led to her backing down and "seeing what they could do" and an appointment with the SENCO and they resolved the issues and they took care of his needs after that. Sometimes the TA changed him other times they sent a message to reception and staff from elsewhere changed him. If there was absolutely noone who could do it, which was rare when they actually agreed to do it, they would call me and I would go in and change him.

There is a charity called Eric who should be able help you and advise you of this.

All the "it isn't a teacher's job, it isn't a TAs job" stuff...honestly no. It doesn't matter whose job it is or isn't, it's a child being left in shit, whilst in the schools care. It doesn't really matter of changing a nappy is in the job description, someone has to do it, it's not ok to leave a child in poo because everyone says it's not their job.

With his continence issues he may well not be able to learn when he needs the toilet at the moment. Would you be able to start teaching him how to change a pull-up mostly himself? Does he have the motor skills to be able to wipe?

I agree with this 100%, it seems like a mainstream setting is not the right place for your child at the time. Are you in the position to homeschool while you get the right support in place after the diagnosis? I feel for both sides here, state schools are often running on the bare minimum staffing levels so I’m not surprised that they cannot meet his needs, although they should have said so earlier - were you crystal clear on his level of need when you spoke with them, including the need for ideally half hourly nappy changes?

You don't need special training or qualifications to change a reception child's nappy.

@misskellyb there is a really good webinar by SOSSEN next appealing a refusal to assess. It’s only £10. I remember from when I appealed that you can appeal outside the window if you have good reason. So it’s worth watching that. Don’t feel bad about not appealing - having your SEN child start school is so hard and a massive learning curve.

short term- meet with SENCO and get a proper plan in place for the toileting. Maybe focus on that one priority for now and worry less about food etc( I know what it’s like when your child has multiple needs and is in a mainstream school). There is other emergency funding a school could apply for if needed.

Unfortunately those who are surprised he is mainstream are clearly not familiar with the current situation.
my friend who works as a sen advisor went into a mainstream reception reaction where there Was a child who could not support his own head and whose only reaction was to light and noise…..

I think you're going to have to make a nuisance of yourself. It's clear that they cannot handle this level of support needs, so you need to pick up the phone tomorrow and make a pest of yourself until you get through to someone. It's not fair on anyone in this current situation: your son, who is being left in a dirty nappy; the teacher, who has most likely been thrown into this by management and is trying to manage as best they can; the other children in the class. It's not a sustainable situation. It doesn't matter what they say, you know your son's abilities and needs and you need to keep repeating them and explaining how they are incompatible with the current situation.

First thing tomorrow, get on the phone to the school and the council and be absolutely resolute that this is a health and safety issue and that your child is being left in an unacceptable condition and it cannot continue and ask them what their solution is. I am not sure I would send him back until I had extracted some sort of interim plan from them in the meantime. I'm almost entirely sure that 30-child reception class with one teacher and one TA is not suitable for a child who has these kind of needs.

It shouldn't be like this, but as a parent of a SEN child you need to be a fucking pain in someone's arse much of the time to get anything done (having a v close friend who is going through the same journey right now).