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Here you'll find advice from parents and teachers on special needs education.

Original poster

AIBU to be angry at school so early in...

377 replies

misskellyb · 07/09/2023 20:29

My son is being assessed for autism and a strong possibility of ADHD (can't assess yet as he's too young).

He has a lot of sensory processing difficulties. One of these being toileting. He has just started reception at a small, one form school and is still in nappies. He is on daily laxatives and regularly soils. Therefore he is still in nappies. He will not toilet train. If he wears pants (and sometimes even when wearing nappies - if he's in uncomfortable environments) he will withhold his wee and poo up until the point of getting so unwell he requires enemas at hospital or ends up with severe stomach pains from not weeing. When he has pants on he has a tendency to poo his pants with the overflow of poo and requires changing of his clothes and pants regularly.

He had his first day in reception yesterday. He had his nappy changed once and was introduced to the toilet but showed no interest in following his peers and using it. I'm hoping in time he will be comfortable enough to start using a toilet at school. However today, when we got home I noticed his nappy was still in his bag and his nappy hadn't been changed and was full of wee and poo. I will be raising this with the school tomorrow.

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no, so he was left to play all day in a wooly jumper with a soiled, wet nappy( I was unaware of the nappy being unchanged at this time).

As he does have additional needs I've asked the teacher if they will feed back to me regularly how he is getting on as his speech is somewhat delayed. The teacher said that they have 30 other children so this isn't possible. AIBU to be abit annoyed about this? I acknowledge their high numbers of children however surely for SEN children they can find a way to prioritise feeding back to parents, weekly, fortnightly, monthly? She said no news is good news so if I hear nothing all is fine. But the news that my sons nappy wasn't changed today and the news that he wouldn't change out of his school jumper is surely news I should be made aware of and not having to find out for myself?

AIBU to be annoyed they left him in a dirty nappy all day? Especially in this heat! They have a duty of care and this is just neglect. He will be prone to infections if this carries on and possibly bullying if other children smell or notice the nappy. The school have had multiple meetings with me regarding his needs and his continence issues. I spoke the school on his first day yesterday to make sure the reception teachers were aware he needs his nappy changed and support around toileting and they assured me this is fine. They also have clinic letters from paediatricians and the continence team outlining that my son will need regular toilet breaks and support around toileting and changing.

I try everything at home to encourage toileting. But toileting issues have been his whole life. We've tried everything and I mean, everything. To the point where no more reward charts, sensory toys, or bribery will encourage him and it's just a waiting game for it to be on his terms but in the process I don't want him facing difficulties at school for this and personal hygiene issues.

You'd think second day in they'd be on the ball as well and I'm just worried this is the start of problems to come.

OP posts:
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OvertakenByLego · 07/09/2023 20:48

The school can and should change DS. This is a helpful article by ERIC.

When did you receive the EHCP refusal? Are you still within the appeal window. Don’t listen to the LA trying to put you off. 2 terms of assess, plan, do, review is not required. Of course the LA doesn’t like giving 1:1, it costs, but a well trained 1:1 deployed correctly does not cause dependence. That is a misrepresentation of the research.

BeeRn · 07/09/2023 20:49

I’m really confused about who you’re expecting to change his nappy at a mainstream school? It is not a teachers jobs to change nappies, regardless of disabilities. You need to push for an EHCP, so he can get someone to change his nappy and whatever other support he needs. Or maybe you need to go in? Or perhaps try and get a placement at a special needs school? I know these are super hard to get, and I have no idea how to go about it. But it certainly sounds like an avenue exploring. I don’t think this school is going to meet his needs at all. Some schools are better SEN-wise than others. Personally I would take him out and push for a special needs school, or find a mainstream school with a better SEN provision.
I really don’t think you can expect them to wrestle off a child’s clothing either I’m afraid. If he doesn’t want his jumper off I can’t see what else they can do.

cansu · 07/09/2023 20:50

The LA may not wish to assess and give an EHCP or indeed any 1.1 support. However, you need to appeal this decision.

Moccasin · 07/09/2023 20:50

Did the school know he would need nappy changes before he started? All primaries I know of won’t accept children who aren’t toilet changed; it’s a prerequisite of them getting a place. Accidents happen of course and they’ll help, but not a child still in nappies?
Is your child in a mainstream school OP? It does sound as if maybe he shouldn’t be.

HB1974 · 07/09/2023 20:51

If it's sometimes needed half hourly, plus food issues, it sounds to me like the school need a care assistant rather than another TA.

Lndnmummy · 07/09/2023 20:51

BeeRn · 07/09/2023 20:49

I’m really confused about who you’re expecting to change his nappy at a mainstream school? It is not a teachers jobs to change nappies, regardless of disabilities. You need to push for an EHCP, so he can get someone to change his nappy and whatever other support he needs. Or maybe you need to go in? Or perhaps try and get a placement at a special needs school? I know these are super hard to get, and I have no idea how to go about it. But it certainly sounds like an avenue exploring. I don’t think this school is going to meet his needs at all. Some schools are better SEN-wise than others. Personally I would take him out and push for a special needs school, or find a mainstream school with a better SEN provision.
I really don’t think you can expect them to wrestle off a child’s clothing either I’m afraid. If he doesn’t want his jumper off I can’t see what else they can do.

No need for you to be confused. What a patronising, rude and unhelpful post.

felisha54 · 07/09/2023 20:52

What support did he get in nursery?
Depending on where you are schools can request some high needs funding that can come through quicker than an ehcp for situations like this.

BeeRn · 07/09/2023 20:52

Also I know some schools have Tappestry (I think that is what it’s called) In Reception like nursery where they feedback to parents through an app. Might be worth visiting other schools and asking about this.

Rudolphthefrog · 07/09/2023 20:52

All those saying “who do you expect to do it”, “staffing”, “wrong setting” etc - it’s not OP or her child’s fault, they aren’t being unreasonable or demanding to want child’s very basic needs met. He’s just as entitled to a place in reception as any other child and while yes, it’s not the class teacher’s job to change his nappy, OP is reasonable to expect it is someones.

He’ll have had next to no chance of getting a special school place from what OP has said, and school has apparently implied they can meet her son’s needs.

I can understand the jumper thing, I imagine they didn’t want to provoke a meltdown or manhandle it off him, and I’d send him in without a jumper while it’s hot. But it’s a pretty rare parent who wouldn’t be upset and angry that their vulnerable four year old was left sitting in a dirty nappy all day, however that ended up happening.

OP I don’t think you need to go in all guns blazing, but I think you’d be entirely reasonable to request an urgent meeting with the senco about how they are going to ensure he’s changed promptly and sufficiently often. That may be very difficult for them to do, but their funding is for them to worry about not you.

Lndnmummy · 07/09/2023 20:53

Moccasin · 07/09/2023 20:50

Did the school know he would need nappy changes before he started? All primaries I know of won’t accept children who aren’t toilet changed; it’s a prerequisite of them getting a place. Accidents happen of course and they’ll help, but not a child still in nappies?
Is your child in a mainstream school OP? It does sound as if maybe he shouldn’t be.

Schools are not allowed to discriminate children on the basis of any disability. OP's son is on the pathway to an autism diagnosis.

Itslosenotloose · 07/09/2023 20:54

Difficult even with one teacher and one TA. They just haven’t got the time or the capacity. One boy last year in reception had his nappy changed daily at lunchtime by his dad who used to come in as we categorically were not allowed to change his nappy. Plus it’s really not the teachers or the TAs job to be changing shitty nappies. It sounds like he’s going to need a 1:1 at some point.

caban · 07/09/2023 20:54

You need an urgent meeting with the SENCO.

Unfortunately having a child with SEN does mean you have to fight for them to have a suitable education. Don't be fobbed off.

Lndnmummy · 07/09/2023 20:54

Rudolphthefrog · 07/09/2023 20:52

All those saying “who do you expect to do it”, “staffing”, “wrong setting” etc - it’s not OP or her child’s fault, they aren’t being unreasonable or demanding to want child’s very basic needs met. He’s just as entitled to a place in reception as any other child and while yes, it’s not the class teacher’s job to change his nappy, OP is reasonable to expect it is someones.

He’ll have had next to no chance of getting a special school place from what OP has said, and school has apparently implied they can meet her son’s needs.

I can understand the jumper thing, I imagine they didn’t want to provoke a meltdown or manhandle it off him, and I’d send him in without a jumper while it’s hot. But it’s a pretty rare parent who wouldn’t be upset and angry that their vulnerable four year old was left sitting in a dirty nappy all day, however that ended up happening.

OP I don’t think you need to go in all guns blazing, but I think you’d be entirely reasonable to request an urgent meeting with the senco about how they are going to ensure he’s changed promptly and sufficiently often. That may be very difficult for them to do, but their funding is for them to worry about not you.

Excellent and supportive post

DiamondTiddler · 07/09/2023 20:54

Moccasin · 07/09/2023 20:50

Did the school know he would need nappy changes before he started? All primaries I know of won’t accept children who aren’t toilet changed; it’s a prerequisite of them getting a place. Accidents happen of course and they’ll help, but not a child still in nappies?
Is your child in a mainstream school OP? It does sound as if maybe he shouldn’t be.

Schools cannot discriminate on disability. The toileting is due to medical needs, not a lack of potty training. The school could have informed the parent that they don't feel they can appropriately meet these needs so OP could find a school which might be better suited

BeeRn · 07/09/2023 20:54

How was I rude?
I think it’s unreasonable to expect staff at any school to wrestle off a child’s clothes, and as far as I’m aware at a mainstream school they’d need to get someone in to change his nappy and other care needs. Or I’ve heard of parents going in. How is offering solutions rude and patronising?
If it were my child I would be stressed too, and would be taking them out to find something that suits their needs!

cansu · 07/09/2023 20:55

You say yourself that he refuses to change from pjs and stays in them all day sometimes, struggles with transitions, has frequent dirty nappies etc etc. He quite clearly needs much more support than the school can provide with one TA for the class.

OvertakenByLego · 07/09/2023 20:55

BeeRn · 07/09/2023 20:49

I’m really confused about who you’re expecting to change his nappy at a mainstream school? It is not a teachers jobs to change nappies, regardless of disabilities. You need to push for an EHCP, so he can get someone to change his nappy and whatever other support he needs. Or maybe you need to go in? Or perhaps try and get a placement at a special needs school? I know these are super hard to get, and I have no idea how to go about it. But it certainly sounds like an avenue exploring. I don’t think this school is going to meet his needs at all. Some schools are better SEN-wise than others. Personally I would take him out and push for a special needs school, or find a mainstream school with a better SEN provision.
I really don’t think you can expect them to wrestle off a child’s clothing either I’m afraid. If he doesn’t want his jumper off I can’t see what else they can do.

No, parents should not be called in to change DC. The guidance is clear.

OP is highly unlikely to get a special school without an EHCP.

Spendonsend · 07/09/2023 20:55

You need to meet with your SENCO and produce an individual healthcare plan for his medical needs.

You need to look at Supporting Children with Medical Conditions in School for info on this. The school should have a policy on the website

TokyoSushi · 07/09/2023 20:56

This sounds really difficult OP, but I'm not sure that a mainstream primary is equipped to give the level of support your DS needs.

I know it's a backwards step and I'm not sure how the system works but if he's not of legal school she might it be better to take him out whilst some different support is found?

Dilapidateddilapidate · 07/09/2023 20:57

misskellyb · 07/09/2023 20:46

I do think they have underestimated his needs. As has the LA because apparently toileting needs in SEN children can be managed in mainstream without an EHCP.

His nappy would probably need changing 2-3 times during the school day but on some days, with high laxative doses, it could be half hourly. I'd be happy though for it to be changed at lunch just to give a refresh and be a starting point.

He has dietary issues. His diet is limited. He actually goes days without eating sometimes. I want to put him on school dinners but the school cannot feed back what he consumes food wise therefore he is on packed lunches. He is not eating his lunch. But this is the only way I can monitor his food intake. Again AIBU to expect he should be able to try school dinners with some feedback given to me?

SEN children with food issues literally will starve themselves. I just hear, children will eat when hungry. My son won't.

@misskellyb sadly the fact is, whether they want to meet his needs or not (impossible to know because there is always the risk of staff thinking parents of sen kids are just making a fuss and if they ignore it whilst telling you what you want to hear the child will just stop the ‘behaviour’) - a mainstream school won’t have enough staff with enough time (and knowledge) to deal with that level of need.

I’ve had to resort to home educating my SEN child for that reason.

caban · 07/09/2023 20:57

BeeRn · 07/09/2023 20:49

I’m really confused about who you’re expecting to change his nappy at a mainstream school? It is not a teachers jobs to change nappies, regardless of disabilities. You need to push for an EHCP, so he can get someone to change his nappy and whatever other support he needs. Or maybe you need to go in? Or perhaps try and get a placement at a special needs school? I know these are super hard to get, and I have no idea how to go about it. But it certainly sounds like an avenue exploring. I don’t think this school is going to meet his needs at all. Some schools are better SEN-wise than others. Personally I would take him out and push for a special needs school, or find a mainstream school with a better SEN provision.
I really don’t think you can expect them to wrestle off a child’s clothing either I’m afraid. If he doesn’t want his jumper off I can’t see what else they can do.

If a child is in a mainstream school then of course the school has to meet that child's needs.
If the school aren't able to meet the needs currently then they need to provide staff and apply for an EHCP and funding.
The solution is not asking the parent to come in to school.

DiamondTiddler · 07/09/2023 20:57

@OvertakenByLego trouble is, without an EHCP there also won't be funding for an additional person to support OP's son

Crazycrazylady · 07/09/2023 20:57

Honestly op. Is he your first child. I think the school have completely and utterly misled you in promising you they can meet his what are significant needs.
The level of support you're describing that your son needs is unheard of in a mainstream class of 30.he has severe toileting issues. Speech issues, food issues and sensory issues. They've been incredibly unfair to you and him in promising you enough support. Absolutely don't wait for school, get the ball rolling asap with applying for his plan so he can have the support he needs and deserves .

ThanksItHasPockets · 07/09/2023 20:58

HB1974 · 07/09/2023 20:37

I think there have to be 2 members of staff present for a nappy or underwear change due to safeguarding.

This may be policy in individual settings but it is not law or official guidance and it wasn’t my experience for my DC. The setting should have an ‘intimate care’ policy which should be explained to the parent and their consent sought.

NorthernGirlie · 07/09/2023 20:58

At ds' primary there was multiple children with additional needs in last year's Reception class

If there's only a teacher and 2 part time TAs then all the good will in the world won't allow staff to give him the care he needs if his class is similar.

Blame funding cuts, not the teacher and TAs

Also - I was a naive NQT 23 years ago - I'd never changed any nappy never mind a nursery age child and just wouldn't have known what to do. Teacher training doesn't prepare for all eventualities

Not saying your ds' teacher is an NQT but she's likely not an expert in additional needs of every kind either. Maybe they will be able to cope but time is needed here if you do think it's the right setting