AIBU to be angry at school so early in...

[misskellyb]

My son is being assessed for autism and a strong possibility of ADHD (can't assess yet as he's too young).

He has a lot of sensory processing difficulties. One of these being toileting. He has just started reception at a small, one form school and is still in nappies. He is on daily laxatives and regularly soils. Therefore he is still in nappies. He will not toilet train. If he wears pants (and sometimes even when wearing nappies - if he's in uncomfortable environments) he will withhold his wee and poo up until the point of getting so unwell he requires enemas at hospital or ends up with severe stomach pains from not weeing. When he has pants on he has a tendency to poo his pants with the overflow of poo and requires changing of his clothes and pants regularly.

He had his first day in reception yesterday. He had his nappy changed once and was introduced to the toilet but showed no interest in following his peers and using it. I'm hoping in time he will be comfortable enough to start using a toilet at school. However today, when we got home I noticed his nappy was still in his bag and his nappy hadn't been changed and was full of wee and poo. I will be raising this with the school tomorrow.

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no, so he was left to play all day in a wooly jumper with a soiled, wet nappy( I was unaware of the nappy being unchanged at this time).

As he does have additional needs I've asked the teacher if they will feed back to me regularly how he is getting on as his speech is somewhat delayed. The teacher said that they have 30 other children so this isn't possible. AIBU to be abit annoyed about this? I acknowledge their high numbers of children however surely for SEN children they can find a way to prioritise feeding back to parents, weekly, fortnightly, monthly? She said no news is good news so if I hear nothing all is fine. But the news that my sons nappy wasn't changed today and the news that he wouldn't change out of his school jumper is surely news I should be made aware of and not having to find out for myself?

AIBU to be annoyed they left him in a dirty nappy all day? Especially in this heat! They have a duty of care and this is just neglect. He will be prone to infections if this carries on and possibly bullying if other children smell or notice the nappy. The school have had multiple meetings with me regarding his needs and his continence issues. I spoke the school on his first day yesterday to make sure the reception teachers were aware he needs his nappy changed and support around toileting and they assured me this is fine. They also have clinic letters from paediatricians and the continence team outlining that my son will need regular toilet breaks and support around toileting and changing.

I try everything at home to encourage toileting. But toileting issues have been his whole life. We've tried everything and I mean, everything. To the point where no more reward charts, sensory toys, or bribery will encourage him and it's just a waiting game for it to be on his terms but in the process I don't want him facing difficulties at school for this and personal hygiene issues.

You'd think second day in they'd be on the ball as well and I'm just worried this is the start of problems to come.

I hear you. The lack of proper changing facilities was one of the issues why all of the LAs in my last school called the union in. They were expected to change children on the floor in the normal school toilets, even the disabled toilets never had the proper equipment or space that they needed. The outcome of the full thing was that 2 extra LAs were employed who were willing to change children and do personal care. I left teaching last year after being bitten on the face so badly that blood was drawn. I got fed up being a punchbag every day in a system that failed so many children in mainstream school.

@BellaAndDave

I don’t blame you. Not sure what I’ll do now. Back to the drawing board I guess or should I say the job board 🤦‍♀️. I have a degree in health and social care but it’s all a bit grim out there…..

Who do you think should do this sort of work, then? Or do you think severely disabled and elderly people should just rot in their own shit? I'm genuinely fascinated. I'm an early years teacher who worked as a 1-2-1 for years before I did my PGCE. Cleaning up shit and other bodily secretions is part and parcel of working with young children; they can't learn if their basic needs aren't met. I think anyone who can't cope with that side of things should work elsewhere.

@SeulementUneFois You lack the analytical skills to understand what you are talking about.

I would try and explain it to you but I don’t think it’s appropriate on this thread.

@Greensleeves
Only people volunteering to do these specific tasks.
I don't think it should be in anyone's job description.

Generically, I think that Society should not confer rights - even in response to a need -that directly affect other people's human dignity.
If there are volunteers, ok. But it should never be made part of anyones job description.

There are jobs that specify intimate care as part of the role. Then there are jobs that do not. It's nowhere on a TA's JD to change nappies in a mainstream setting. Or a teachers.

It's more expected when you choose to apply for a job in a SEN setting but even then, some people do opt out of it and still work there.

@Appleontherocks

more expected in SEN yes but I’ve worked in a few Sen schools who have carers who come in over the lunch break to do all the changes so that the teachers and TAs can just get on with teaching.

I have the greatest sympathy for the OP and her child. I also have sympathy for a teacher who is expected to change nappies as well as teach and take care of 29 other children who are also new to school. I worked in Early Years for 30 years and changed children who had had accidents regularly although not nappies as this, in my experience, is relatively new in mainstream schools. In my last year I was expected to change nappies with one TA in the class while instructed by the Head Teacher to sit down with groups of 10 directly teaching them (many, many problems with that scenario hence it being my last year). The child obviously needs 1-1 TA as soon as possible. This is the priority.

The thing is the school as an organisation has obligations towards the child but no individual in that school has. People currently working in the school will already have a job which they would have to leave to attend to the nappy changing. The school can't just conjure someone up to do this job, it could be advertised but nobody can be forced to take the job.

The cock-up here seems to be the promise made to the OP that her child's needs can be met without having made arrangements to enable this before the end of last term.

That's why I'd never be a nurse.

I have worked in reception a long time ago and none of the dc needed nappies.

I understand things have changed

In the 90s they wouldn't accept a dc in play group at 2 and 9 months who wasn't out of nappies

However it shouldn't be for the teacher to have to worry about.

What about the welfare person or has that all changed

Which is how it should be

@hamsterchump I personally just wish you would stop using the word 'disgusting'.
For everybody's sake.

@BellaAndDave

Yes that was my point earlier in the thread

What about protecting teacher and TAs backs and having proper facilities

There has been no ‘welfare person’ in any school I’ve worked in.

This is a crap situation all round. The children need their nappy changed, the school want to meet the child’s needs but there isn’t the funding or the staffing from the LEA for them to do so. Then the parent gets angry and the school feel helpless. The poster up thread who said the SENCo comes and changes nappies is most unusual! Most are teaching anyway and have a bit of release time to sort out everything else they need to do.

The SenCos in my school had their own class with a few hours out, and were always KS2 trained. They wouldn't have gone near a nappy and wouldn't have had any useful suggestions either. I sympathise with @Itslosenotloose because there is only so much anyone can take, teacher or TA.

I used to be a Nursery and Reception TA. I never had a problem with helping a child getting cleaned up after an accident, and I'd always act unbothered about it and be conscious of their dignity.

That said, it's not the nicest aspect of the job. Wee accidents were fairly common for children where I worked, poo wasn't. The latter is considerably more unpleasant to deal with. Sorry, but it is. There's not a chance in hell I'd have agreed to be responsible for changing a child who might soil themselves every 30 minutes. It's not something a mainstream school is really equipped to deal with.

@SeulementUneFois it most definitely is in the job description of every TA advert I see.

The comments on this thread are absolutely atrocious. This is a small child, not a disgusting time thief.

To the OP the school legally have to keep your child safe and clean. ERIC have some excellent guidance it might be worth reading, it makes it clear that leaving a child in a soiled nappy constitutes neglect.

My boy is nearly 7 and in nappies full time, he is also in a mainstream. He is treated with compassion and dignity which is the absolute minimum to expect.

What needs to happen is an intimate care plan, this will detail the procedure for supporting his needs. If school are struggling to support his needs then it might be necessary to consider if an EHCP might be necessary.

I'm happy to chat direct too if you need it.

I'm upset reading a lot of these comments, I can't imagine how you are feeling.

@SeulementUneFois

I don't expect someone to deal with my child's shit multiple times a day. If my child is going to be on high laxative doses, whereby needing half hourly changes I would keep him at home like I did when he was at nursery, even though the LA, the nursery and the continence team encouraged me to send him in because these needs can be met and apparently the half hourly pooing can but I wasn't comfortable sending him in like this. For his own sake.

The school themselves knew of his continence issues as did the LA. Yesterdays incident was a normal occurrence of poo and wee. I was expecting one nappy change when necessary based on the fact the LA, school, continence team all have advised me can be met within mainstream school settings.

I get, in an ideal world, no teacher and especially no parent would want them in school in nappies. This is a medical condition and unavoidable unfortunately. I would most definitely prefer strangers weren't changing my child's nappy. His dignity is on the line here too and he's the one without the choice. He didn't choose to go to school or chose to have the complex needs he has but the teachers chose to become teachers, knowing that accidents alone can happen at this age. He is a child, they are an adult with a duty of care.

I cannot just get my son in to a special school like some other posters have said. He won't even be awarded an EHCP. Although I assume these are things you wouldn't know as you don't sound to have ever dealt with a SEN child of your own? Which is good news because I wonder if your view would change and perhaps then you'd be the one asking yourself if it's reasonable to expect your child's basic care needs to be met at school.

I appreciate there is a staff 'dignity' but there is also the dignity of my child, who is left in his own poo, through no fault of his own. I am not expecting half hourly nappy changes and would of course be taking appropriate action and hopefully liaising with the school with regards to be the best course of action on keeping him at home during disimpactions. Sometimes parents of constipated children hold out on administering disimpaction doses until the school holidays. Imagine this... your child is bloated, full, cannot eat, is in pain and have to suffer a whole school term in pain, until they can be medically treated and spend their school holidays, when they should be having fun with their friends, at home soiling themselves uncontrollably.

I say all this because I'd like those without understanding to understand that there is more to what SEN children have to deal with throughout their little lives. It's heartbreaking.

I do believe that if you enter an early years setting you would expect a lot of bodily fluids such as accidents from neurotypical children too because let's face it, they're young children. Bogeys, snot, the works... so I do not think it is ok to call a child or their needs disgusting when they are just little humans learning about the ins and outs of life with innocence that makes their snot dripping faces and shitty arses harmless.

Perhaps here the dignity of the child and the dignity of the staff is just as important and the deeper issue is the fact that our children are being failed by the authorities. We know this. But therefore when I put my whole world in to the palm of someone's hand, who I assume entered a teaching role with the children being at the heart of that choice, that it is not too much to ask that he is not wandering around in his own poo.

I fight almost daily to try and be heard and I'm back round to the start of the cycle. It's a never ending battle, without immediate help. Please remember too, specialist schools aren't always necessary for SEN children. And SEN doesn't always mean learning disability. Please educate yourself and perhaps don't comment on a SEN post on a SEN board without knowledge. Although my hiccup for posting in AIBU to begin with as that was the main question I had.

Big hug @misskellyb

How do I pm you?

Thank you

Did things go better today by any chance?