AIBU to be angry at school so early in...

[misskellyb]

My son is being assessed for autism and a strong possibility of ADHD (can't assess yet as he's too young).

He has a lot of sensory processing difficulties. One of these being toileting. He has just started reception at a small, one form school and is still in nappies. He is on daily laxatives and regularly soils. Therefore he is still in nappies. He will not toilet train. If he wears pants (and sometimes even when wearing nappies - if he's in uncomfortable environments) he will withhold his wee and poo up until the point of getting so unwell he requires enemas at hospital or ends up with severe stomach pains from not weeing. When he has pants on he has a tendency to poo his pants with the overflow of poo and requires changing of his clothes and pants regularly.

He had his first day in reception yesterday. He had his nappy changed once and was introduced to the toilet but showed no interest in following his peers and using it. I'm hoping in time he will be comfortable enough to start using a toilet at school. However today, when we got home I noticed his nappy was still in his bag and his nappy hadn't been changed and was full of wee and poo. I will be raising this with the school tomorrow.

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no, so he was left to play all day in a wooly jumper with a soiled, wet nappy( I was unaware of the nappy being unchanged at this time).

As he does have additional needs I've asked the teacher if they will feed back to me regularly how he is getting on as his speech is somewhat delayed. The teacher said that they have 30 other children so this isn't possible. AIBU to be abit annoyed about this? I acknowledge their high numbers of children however surely for SEN children they can find a way to prioritise feeding back to parents, weekly, fortnightly, monthly? She said no news is good news so if I hear nothing all is fine. But the news that my sons nappy wasn't changed today and the news that he wouldn't change out of his school jumper is surely news I should be made aware of and not having to find out for myself?

AIBU to be annoyed they left him in a dirty nappy all day? Especially in this heat! They have a duty of care and this is just neglect. He will be prone to infections if this carries on and possibly bullying if other children smell or notice the nappy. The school have had multiple meetings with me regarding his needs and his continence issues. I spoke the school on his first day yesterday to make sure the reception teachers were aware he needs his nappy changed and support around toileting and they assured me this is fine. They also have clinic letters from paediatricians and the continence team outlining that my son will need regular toilet breaks and support around toileting and changing.

I try everything at home to encourage toileting. But toileting issues have been his whole life. We've tried everything and I mean, everything. To the point where no more reward charts, sensory toys, or bribery will encourage him and it's just a waiting game for it to be on his terms but in the process I don't want him facing difficulties at school for this and personal hygiene issues.

You'd think second day in they'd be on the ball as well and I'm just worried this is the start of problems to come.

And without an EHCP who exactly is going to fund an independent SS? Even the ones who allow parents to self fund aren’t cheap and the vast majority of the population wouldn’t be able to afford them.

Then the parents can appeal. Refusing based on unlawful myths is unlawful and should not be excused.

You poor woman, this sounds so tough. Has he been to nursery school before or has he been at home until now?

Schools can't suddenly magic up another £30K a year for a 1:1 who is going to be prepared to be cleaning nappies all day. It's tricky to recruit for staff who are happy to do this amount of intimate care.

Blame the funding situation in schools on the government! My advice is to lawyer up. My LA seem to respond very quickly to threatening lawyer letters.

I don't know how to pm... happy for you to pm me though?

The SENCO is actually a teacher and only has one day off for SENCO duties. It seems common in the schools in our area.

I’m so sorry you’re in this position. In your shoes I would speak to the class teacher about the nappy issue tomorrow and state clearly that it must be changed as necessary. And I would urgently speak to the SENCO and seek their support for an EHCP and a 1:1 TA. His needs sound complex and it’s disgraceful (but not surprising) that your EHCP application was bounced back.

Poor you, and DS.

I sympathise, but there is only so much schools can do, and the government thresholds for special schools these days mean that children with serious additional needs are having to be managed in mainstream with a single teacher and one or two TAs - which just isn't enough, sometimes!

My DS has ASD and ADHD, and also wasn't toilet trained when he started school ten years ago (despite years of me trying and all sorts of incidents, poo-smearing, etc etc). He was dry but not poo-trained. I asked to send him in a nappy but the school said no, send him in pants and we'll deal with it, he will learn.

Obviously your DS is different as we didn't have laxatives or withholding etc - but DS did start to copy the others within a term or two. In the meantime they sent his dirty pants back each day! I asked them to bin them but they said they couldn't. But they did clean him up and did help him use the toilet. Hopefully your DS will get there too....

I also had to ask them to make DS drink when the weather was hot (and he had diluted juice which was against the rules, but was all he would drink). And he always wore his jumper whatever the weather - as do most of my friends ASD kids now even though they are teens.....

DS got his EHCP part way through reception, but that shouldn't make much difference. Schools are desperately underfunded, and staff are doing their best. But hopefully your DS will copy his peers and improve in some areas - if he doesn't then you may need to look at a special school. Good luck!

@hamsterchump I can't quote your response because you've quoted somebody else's. I aren't one for confrontation either. This comment of you're is extremely ignorant. I am sorry to say but it is. Give your head a shake and if you have nothing productive or nice or informative to say then get off of Mumsnet. Clearly you haven't had to face the difficulties that our children have had to face. Or that the parents of SEN children or incontinent children do. Extremely ignorant using the words disgusting about our childrens needs. We all have to shit don't we. Our shit all stinks. You're lucky you can shit without laxatives or worrying about the sensory distress that has for you. Goodbye.

But it is nowhere near as simple as saying "he needs a school that can meet his needs". That is an incredibly long and incredibly arduous process (and oftentimes impossible!). In the meantime, @misskellyb 's child IS in mainstream. So they should be doing everything they can to support him there.

Do you feel he was coping better in nursery?
I don’t know if it’s an option once he’s already started now but some parents delay starting reception for a year and stay in nursery for an extra year which can be for a range of reasons.

could this be a possibility?

I know how tough the situation in schools is financially and before the council will hand over any money for SEN children the school has to use 6k of their budget to show how they are supporting each individual child with SEN. Therefore if you have a lot of SEN children across the school, your budget just will not stretch. Couple this with TAs and 1:1s being better off working in a supermarket and it being very hard to recruit, it’s all a bit of a mess!

children are being failed by schools, who definitely don’t want to fail them, it’s so sad! Our government is failing them completely!

Holy fuck..."it's disgusting"?!!! That is one of the most ablest comments I have ever read, on any platform, ever.

You know what's worse? A child sitting in their own excrement.

This is a terrible situation for you and your child, OP. It's a horrible problem to have - but it really isn't a problem that the teacher should be dealing with. If the reception class has 20 children, the teacher and assistant can't take time out to change nappies and give your child the help he needs and should be given. The reception class teacher should be teaching - number bonds, reading and writing etc - and that takes every single minute of the school day. There just isn't the time to give special needs children the individual help they need. The other 19 (?) children in the class also have to have their needs met. Children with special needs need to have those needs dealt with by specialist teachers in a suitable environment. It doesn't sound as if a normal reception class in a mainstream school is a suitable environment for your child. I'd involve the press, my MP and the local council.

Your username of silly mummy is correct.

I'm sorry if my response was the 'stupidest' however if all children are going in to school with their jumpers on, with all parents knowing the weather, with the uniform policy strict, and my child already being 'different' to the majority of his peers, I was concious of him standing out to others for looking different. This is all new to me. I'm trying my absolute best. I got it wrong. Clearly. But I do expect teachers or the teaching assistants to make some effort to encourage him to remove a wooly jumper in dangerous heat. Or at least inform me if he hasn't so I can come to school to do it for them. I'd rather that than my child have heat stroke. Someone is looking after my child, my whole world is in the palm of their hands and surely it doesn't take much to just encourage him gently or inform me before school end.

But I guess my 'nanny' could do that for me.

Some people can be brutal and need to consider carefully the wording they are using. I am an extremely shy person. I don't like confrontation. I spend days upon days battling with some health care professional, some professional of some kind, carefully critiquing myself and wondering if I could do better. And to hear someone say I could do better or do with a nanny is just downright hurtful and I want to say this because you clearly don't understand and I do not appreciate such hurtful words.

I bet you were the school bully. The sort I'm worried about my son having to encounter.

Please think about your words because if you don't mean to offend; then please know you did.

Good evening and please refrain from posting negative remarks from this thread or any other for that matter.

@SeulementUneFois I have a colostomy and teach teenagers. I quite often soil myself during the day. Am I disgusting? I need to change regularly. Probably faintly smell of poo in class sometimes.

@misskellyb I would follow @captainflash advice. I have two boys with autism and ehcp's who did get places at special Ed schools but I had to dig in and fight. Ds1 I had to take the local authority to court. Become an expert in your field and do everything by the book.

Education is NOT a level playing field and in my experience he who shouts loudest gets heard.

Good luck!

It both is and isn't too much to expect. Mainstream education is - sometimes unfortunately/incorrectly - the go-to.

Ultimately, this child has more needs than the average mainstream Reception child. And regardless of whether he should or shouldn't be in a mainstream setting, he IS. Therefore the school should be doing everything in their power to make sure that the experience is as smooth/comfortable as possible for him.

👏👏👏

Exactly this. But more like 30 children!

I understand, I felt the same. We persevered until the end of year 2, by which time he was miserable and anxious, wasn’t making any progress educationally and the school had promised so many things they didn’t provide ( as well as failing in many other ways), so we de registered him.

Home education has been life changing. He is so much happier, is learning and socialising so much more now.

Home Ed is not for everyone, but it can work really well and offer sen children much more than a bad placement in a mainstream school.

Because more and more frequently the only other option is no school at all.

OK, but given that there aren't loads of specialist settings available and this child is unlikely to get anywhere near one anytime soon, what is your solution.
The LA allocated a place in this school, the school says they can meet needs - so that's what they need to do.
Changing nappies is a bare minimum. Leaving a child in a soiled nappy all day is neglect.

Hi OP,

I'm sorry you're going through this.

I am an ex primary school teacher and I also worked for the local authority as an SEND Information Advice and Support (SENDIAS) officer.

PLEASE contact your local SENDIAS Service. They will offer you free impartial confidential advice on your rights as a parent of a child with suspected SEN. They will help you to prepare for meetings. They will advocate for you. They will attend meetings with you and take notes for you so you can fully participate in the meeting without worrying about writing down what was said. They will support you to fully understand the EHCP process. They will help you if you need to appeal, or go to tribunal.

By law, every local authority has to offer a SENDIAS service. This was my job and we helped many, many parents in similar situations.

Go here to find the local service in your area: councilfordisabledchildren.org.uk/about-us-0/networks/information-advice-and-support-services-network/find-your-local-ias-service

Good luck x

I’m sorry I haven’t read the whole threat. I had one boy with extreme toileting issues.

movicol was too embarrassing for him - he was exploding uncontrollably.
lactulose 2 spoons a day was a miracle - you can buy a big bottle from the chemist for around £5 uk. I’d strongly recommend trying this.

eric website was good / godsend.

you need to work out when helps your boy poo for us it was apple juice and pears! And avoid bananas as they blocked him. Really watch his diet (so you understand him - it’s your boy so try to work out a pattern for your boy what’s a good food for him / a bad food)

we saw loads of consultants and they said for every year you have had an issue - double it as that’s how long it will take to sort out.

Also, after dinner a bath and make him try for the toilet - even if he doesn’t go he gets into the habit at trying at 7pm or what ever time it is. Also, the same applies after lunch make him try for the toilet. Bubbles in the toilet were good (not ideal) but makes them sit longer on the toilet and have a chat / read a book.

good luck it’s not nice.

Don’t believe sendiass - for EHCP stuff. They are paid by the LA. Your 2 websites are sos sen and ipsea. An EHCP is not handed out on a plate you have to fight every single week for it as LA play tricks.

you have got this 👍

Good luck

Also, increase fluid massively. Even if you’re giving diluted robinsons etc - more drink equals softer poos ….(my boy hated water but could do sugar free juice) use water bottles so you know how much fluid is going into your boy

good luck

@rockpoolingtogether What support should she offer?!

It doesn’t matter that the child doesn’t (yet) have a list of diagnoses- support is supposed to be provided based on the presenting needs, not a diagnosis. The child needs to have his nappy changed, the school should be doing that. The child needs to have his food intake monitored, the school should be doing that. That is their duty. It’s no different than a diabetic child who needs to have their blood sugar monitored, or an asthmatic child who needs to be given medication. The school can not legally neglect their duty.

They may not do what they should, and that is a battle the op has to fight, but she doesn’t have to support them to fulfil their legal obligations.

When my DS1 started infant school he was having accidents due to extreme constipation. They dealt with it by buying a small portable shower unit that they could set up in the staff bathroom and the office manager (who had been at the school for over a decade) would clean him up and get him changed. This meant the teachers and TAs weren't pulled away from their teaching duties to do this.

But, it wasn't an every day occurrence for him, and a tiny school with only 3 classes that weren't full, and classrooms very close to the office.

I think the logistics in a larger school make it more difficult.

@misskellyb

You're being completely unreasonable to @hamsterchump.
I don't know about you, but most of the population finds shit disgusting - and yes including one's own.
So expecting of someone to deal with someone else's shit multiple times a day - possibly up to each half an hour - when that's not in their job description.
Which is what you expect. Is worse than unreasonable.
Actually I'd say that it's disgusting towards those employees - people! 's - human dignity. Noone has to do the disgusting task of dealing with someone else's shit unless it's their job description. (Or they want to because it's family etc )

And the fact that this is disgusting is being brought up because you and so many on the thread have made dealing with the shit the centre of the thread, because of your expectation above.