AIBU to be angry at school so early in...

[misskellyb]

My son is being assessed for autism and a strong possibility of ADHD (can't assess yet as he's too young).

He has a lot of sensory processing difficulties. One of these being toileting. He has just started reception at a small, one form school and is still in nappies. He is on daily laxatives and regularly soils. Therefore he is still in nappies. He will not toilet train. If he wears pants (and sometimes even when wearing nappies - if he's in uncomfortable environments) he will withhold his wee and poo up until the point of getting so unwell he requires enemas at hospital or ends up with severe stomach pains from not weeing. When he has pants on he has a tendency to poo his pants with the overflow of poo and requires changing of his clothes and pants regularly.

He had his first day in reception yesterday. He had his nappy changed once and was introduced to the toilet but showed no interest in following his peers and using it. I'm hoping in time he will be comfortable enough to start using a toilet at school. However today, when we got home I noticed his nappy was still in his bag and his nappy hadn't been changed and was full of wee and poo. I will be raising this with the school tomorrow.

He also struggles with transitions, one of these being transitions with clothing. For example on a morning he for some reason refuses to change out of his pyjamas and will meltdown to the point that some days he has to stay in pyjamas. He struggles going from season to season changing from summer clothing (shorts and short sleeved t shirts to jumpers and trousers and vice versa). As you know it's extremely hot and he was left in his school jumper all day at school today. I confronted the school when he walked out in a jumper and The school said they asked him to change out of his jumper but he said no, so he was left to play all day in a wooly jumper with a soiled, wet nappy( I was unaware of the nappy being unchanged at this time).

As he does have additional needs I've asked the teacher if they will feed back to me regularly how he is getting on as his speech is somewhat delayed. The teacher said that they have 30 other children so this isn't possible. AIBU to be abit annoyed about this? I acknowledge their high numbers of children however surely for SEN children they can find a way to prioritise feeding back to parents, weekly, fortnightly, monthly? She said no news is good news so if I hear nothing all is fine. But the news that my sons nappy wasn't changed today and the news that he wouldn't change out of his school jumper is surely news I should be made aware of and not having to find out for myself?

AIBU to be annoyed they left him in a dirty nappy all day? Especially in this heat! They have a duty of care and this is just neglect. He will be prone to infections if this carries on and possibly bullying if other children smell or notice the nappy. The school have had multiple meetings with me regarding his needs and his continence issues. I spoke the school on his first day yesterday to make sure the reception teachers were aware he needs his nappy changed and support around toileting and they assured me this is fine. They also have clinic letters from paediatricians and the continence team outlining that my son will need regular toilet breaks and support around toileting and changing.

I try everything at home to encourage toileting. But toileting issues have been his whole life. We've tried everything and I mean, everything. To the point where no more reward charts, sensory toys, or bribery will encourage him and it's just a waiting game for it to be on his terms but in the process I don't want him facing difficulties at school for this and personal hygiene issues.

You'd think second day in they'd be on the ball as well and I'm just worried this is the start of problems to come.

Apparently those who are incontinent don’t have the right to dignity according to some on here.

what also needs to be remembered is that any of us is just one illness or injury off finding ourselves incontinent and in need of help of others. Others who can hopefully treat you with dignity and not make your bodily functions seem disgusting.

It isn’t being a ‘keyboard warrior’ to think it is unacceptable to discriminate against disabled children.

Can we please remember this thread has been moved from AIBU. It is now on the SEN board, a supportive place for parents of DC with SEN. Not a place for others to express disgust at a disabled 4 year needing changing. It is neglectful of any school to leave a disabled 4 year old, or do you think a disabled child doesn’t deserve dignity?

As the parent of a teen who needs changing, no it isn’t nice, no many places don’t have changing places facilities, but it is a necessity.

X posted with @SadAndMushyAndComplicated who got there before me.

They have proper changing facilities in special schools. Adjustable beds so you don’t hurt your back. Hoists, appropriate cleaning sprays and materials, gloves etc. You always have more than one staff member whilst changing and obviously pull ups are disposed of in the correct bins. Because of this, the child, nine times out of ten happily allows the adult to change them.

Dealing with a distressed 5 year old in an EYFS mainstream toilet whereby I can just about fit my own arse in is absolutely awful for the child and for the adult. Zero cleaning equipment or sprays obviously as it’s an EYFS toilet and these sprays need to be kept away from children as they are obviously hazardous. Because of the lack of room the child is then hitting out, screaming and scratching and eventually clawing at their own face due to the distress.

Now that is just one part of the job. Trying to keep said child in the classroom so the school can be “inclusive” is where the trouble really begins. The reality is any sort of mainstream demand causes full blown meltdowns and more kicking and screaming which results in a complete removal and into the schools “sensory room”. These aren’t actually sensory rooms. They’re just rooms, often very small, hot ones with a few sensory toys in. Trying to transport the child from the classroom to the sensory room without another meltdown is again super stressful when other classes are quietly at work.

I haven’t mentioned food issues or anything else because I would be here all day. I’ve gone off on a tangent really. I don’t know what the answers are. I just know I’m never stepping foot back into a 1-1 role in a mainstream school ever again. I suspect the only people willing to do these roles will be those in society who are already hugely disadvantaged and cannot get any other work. I know most schools in my LA are really, really struggling to recruit 1-1s. They’re like gold dust.

I am done.

The school are stuck between a rock and a hard place due to the Local Authority telling a parent that a school is suitable for their child when the school don't have the right resources. Ideally the person at the local authority who made that decision should be the one who has to arrange the intimate care. This situation isn't fair on anyone: the OP's child, the school staff, and the other children in the class. But people keep voting in the party that seems hellbent on destroying this country.

You can’t seriously be comparing a disabled child to someone who wants a surrogate.

"I suspect the only people willing to do these roles will be those in society who are already hugely disadvantaged and cannot get any other work."

See above from the horse's mouth so to speak.
@ThanksItHasPockets
@Dilapidateddilapidate
@Sirzy
@Rudolphthefrog

@OvertakenByLego

The point I'm making is that we know forcing people to do some things is against human dignity.

In my opinion, doing the disgusting task of dealing other people's shit is one such thing.

And I know that it's not force at the barrel of a gun. But see the point about the factory workers in Bangladesh.
Or the quote from someone who did this, above:
""I suspect the only people willing to do these roles will be those in society who are already hugely disadvantaged and cannot get any other work."

Ergo, it should never be part of a job description.

I am really trying, @SeulementUneFois, but I find your stance very difficult to grasp.

Your surrogacy argument doesn't help me because I don't accept that a person 'needs' a surrogate. It is not comparable to someone needing help because they are incontinent.

I don't think either of us are getting anything out of this exchange so I will bid you a good morning. I will just echo the pp who have pointed out that this thread is now on the SEN board. I don't know if you spend much time here but it is very much not AIBU.

Also, I’m no stranger to physical, low paid roles. I’ve been a carer for the elderly. At least then I actually got a lunch break. The reality is often different on a 1-1 as you cannot take your eyes off them for even a moment due to them eating things, putting things in their mouth. There is often no other staff to cover you on a lunch break as the child obviously needs 1-1 at all times. It’s rough going.

Comparing a disabled child to someone who wants a surrogate is despicable. The support a disabled child is legally entitled to is in no way comparable to surrogacy. They are nothing a like. A disabled child being changed is essential, it is neglectful not to change them. Having a child is not essential, it is not neglectful not to be a surrogate.

It is clear you think it is acceptable to discriminate against a disabled child. Now that is disgusting.

@ThanksItHasPockets

I think the issue is between "need" and "rights".
My point is eventually distilled in this:

Society should not confer rights - even in response to a need -that directly affect other people's human dignity.
If there are volunteers, ok. But it should never be made part of anyones job description.

Edit: also in response to your last post @OvertakenByLego

@misskellyb I’m sorry, I’ve just realised this has been moved off aibu- I’ll stop railing against the ableist bullshit now.

I really hope you find a positive way through for your child x

@Dilapidateddilapidate

You may be right, I'm no authority.

However this is my perspective:

Society should not confer rights - even driven by needs - that directly affect other people's human dignity.
If there are volunteers, ok. But it should never be made part of anyones job description.

A disabled child has an essential need and a right not to be left in a soiled nappy.

Someone wanting a surrogate doesn’t have an essential need or right for a surrogate as having a child isn’t essential or a right.

There are many situations where one person’s need affects others. Have you ever had a smear, mammogram, given birth, cystoscopy, hysteroscopy visited the dentist, or needed bowel surgery? Or is it only disabled DC you think it is OK to discriminate against?

@OvertakenByLego

"There are many situations where one person’s need affects others. Have you ever had a smear, mammogram, given birth, cystoscopy, hysteroscopy visited the dentist, or needed bowel surgery."

I don't think that most of the various tasks involved in the above go against human dignity, unlike dealing with someone else's shit.
That's why I think it's specifically dealing with someone else's shit that should never be part of job descriptions.

If there are volunteers, ok. But it should never be made part of anyones job description.

And for most of the tasks involved above, @Itslosenotloose wouldn't have said what she did say about dealing with someone else's shit:
". I suspect the only people willing to do these roles will be those in society who are already hugely disadvantaged and cannot get any other work."

So working in close proximity to bodily fluids and genitals are OK if you decide they are, but not when caring for a disabled child? Right. You really are highlighting just how much you think it is acceptable to discriminate against a disabled child.

@OvertakenByLego

I think you're being disingenuous in inferring this not to be true:
Most people find dealing with someone else's shit much more disgusting (hence why I think it affects human dignity) than "working in close proximity to bodily fluids and genitals".

I am not the one being disingenuous. Out of my examples, bowel surgery can involve poo, giving birth also can. There are many other procedures that can also involve faeces.

Do you realise you are posting IN THE SEN SECTION about how disgusting it is to provide care for disabled children?

Seriously, drop it and find another group to insult.

Yes. If people refused to follow the Equality Act then it is discrimination.

Anyway, no-one I wish to converse with can really be so ignorant as to think it is acceptable to discriminate against a disabled child nor compare a disabled child to someone who needs a surrogate, so I am going to ignore your despicable posts now. The thread is on the SEN board and your posts are not in the supportive spirit of this board.

@caban

This was in AIBU, OP was thinking about going in guns blazing coz the school hadn't forced any people to deal with someone else's shit.

And now it isn't in AIBU, so if you want to bitch about disabled children find somewhere else to do it.