Slumber Party...The Sleep Deprivation Support Thread

[InmaculadaConcepcion]

We're all in this together... how about a bit of mutual schadenfreude/grim humour/shared agony as we blearily stumble through another day...

Yes Such I second what Hiccups said, and hope things start to improve for you soon.

We are still plodding along, sometimes up and sometimes down a bit but with no big changes. I had another half-night in the spare room but this time still got woken up (twice) by DD crying, even with earplugs in, so DH didn't have such an easy night this time! Then went back to our room for her feed and a few more wake-ups. I think she got very overtired yesterday (had rubbish naps) so was restless all night, also trying to get her down without the dummy in took forever (and then still failed as I gave up and let her keep it in the end), which must have made her more tired.

I am getting more and more tempted to try cold turkey again (with PUPD, not crying it out) if things don't improve soon - not feeling like we are making much progress with the gradual withdrawal, if anything she seems to be getting more dependent and it is messing up her naps as well as night-times. When we went through this with DS, cold turkey didn't work the first time but did work second time (he found his thumb instead), so there is precedent...

Only trouble is now we have two, it would be a lot more difficult to do, as I would have to find time to do PUPD with her at naptime without DS getting up to mischief, and also find a way of doing it at night without waking him, as I'm sure there would be quite a bit of yelling at first

Thanks Hiccups and MNIIM- really appreciate it. For a long time, I blamed the lack of sleep but unfortunately I think it's more than that.

MNIIM I'd be really intrested to hear how you get on if you try PU/PD. I've thought about it both for extending naps and possibly trying to tackle the multiple night wakings but haven't been brave enough of had the energy. The other thing is that my DS seldom cries when he wakes just widgets and fidgets and not sure it would worm with that. Think am going to do your spareroom trick tonight and leave DH on duty...

It did work with DS for the dummy-withdrawal, at least on the second attempt, but I can't lie, it was very hard work and not very nice. He really hated not having his dummy, and there was lots of screaming (though at least I was there to comfort him as best I could - I could never do crying it out, am too soft!). First time round we cracked and gave back the dummy after a few very bad nights, but the second time he discovered his thumb and suddenly taught himself to settle with that. There is likely to be a lot of crying though, and it helps to make sure anyone who will be around knows what you are doing and is supportive. DS was a very loud baby anyway when upset though, so he was probably a particularly tough case... Also it takes a lot of time and persistence if you are doing it for every nap, plus bedtimes and at night.

If your DS is not crying though I think the idea would be to just leave him to it for as long as he is calm, on the basis that he will go to sleep eventually, and only to do PUPD if he is unable to get back to sleep and starts crying. We did find with DS that if he was not upset but just awake (or typically "singing" to himself), the only thing to do was ignore it and try to bore him out of it - that, plus moving him to his own room once he was old enough, where he could sing in peace! He still often likes to chatter himself to sleep, but now he is older it is just at bedtime so not really an issue.

Will let you know how it goes with DD if we decide to try it, I am still dithering at the moment though.

Hope everyone has had a reasonable night, we did quite well, seem to have 2 bad 1 good at mo. At least it gives me chance to catch up a bit and actually interact with the older ones every third day

We are making cakes today - sounds v delia I know but trust me we don't do it very often, just celebrating as dh has decided to shave the beard off he's been growing for the world cup (bad luck apparently! Phew it's dds christening next Sunday!!!)

Such hope you are ok, keep talking things out, it really helps in my experience. I agree with MNIIM if ds is happy leave him to it.

Hugs to all just skipping off into my bombsite kitchen to check on my cakes!

mmm, home-made cakes, Hiccups! Such, sounds like you're doing the right thing re the suspected PND. I think half the battle is admitting that's what it is and seeking help. Huge sympathy. Also with the feeding. I've come close to giving up a few times and had periods when DD just didn't seem interested. I basically offer her feeds before and after every sleep (which probably merely reinforces her waking habits, but I've got to get the calories in her somehow and when she's wide awake, she's too distracted to feed properly).
Glad the holiday was okay, even if watching the "angel baby" made you feel worse about your LO's sleeping habits. Apparently, angel babies are often nightmare toddlers (and tricky babies can often by delightful older children) so you may well have the last laugh on that one...

Good luck with the dummy cold turkey, MNIIM. I kept threatening to do that once DH had a weekend without work, but luckily DD started being less dummy-dependent just as I was gritting my teeth, girding my loins and everything else to go for it.

Last night wasn't the greatest for us. Wake-ups at 22.00, 00.30, 03.30, 04.00 (following which, she didn't resettle until 05.45). DH had to retreat to the spare room in the end as he had an early start for work today. Typically, ten mins after he went, she fell asleep and didn't wake up again until 07.30.
Still, I'd grabbed a couple of hours sleep before midnight, which usually makes the difference with me between cheerfully coping and tearfully exhausted.

Ooo Hiccups - can you spare some virtual cake? Our fridge is post holiday empty and I need the sugar rush after a day of hopeless napping. Super impressed by your domestic bliss. The nearest I get these days is boiling pasta..!

IC I know I shouldn't wish sleeplessness on others but there will be shadenfreude if their perfect baby ever has a terrorist moment. Even it's grandma said to me today that it's father was a perfect sleeper until 9 months when it all went very wrong. I'm sure I detected a glimmer of hope even in her eye!

Managed fairy cakes and cornflake cakes, you are all welcome to them!!! Having fish fingers and chips for tea tho

Yum. We had greasy takeaway. And its grandmother. Or more correctly his. Duh.

Cheesy beans on toast here...yum!

Today's sleeplessness bulletin: DD had a couple of long resettles last night, but in both cases I managed to tummy-pat and dummy-tap her back to sleep without feeding. Took AGES, but at least I could do it while lying in bed beside her and she didn't cry, just fidgeted and widgeted. It might be a breakthrough. Then again, maybe not

Well done IC. I'm trying to only feed once at night an resettle without the other times. Can take an age though. Although last night seemed ok- quick dummy resettle at half three, and feed at five (although he took about an hr to resettle after that and then wasn't hungry when he woke at 7..). He may have been awake at other times but we turned the sensitivity down on the monitor so if he did widget before 3, he must of managed to resettle himself since thee wasn't any crying. Could handle a night like that every night. And he has napped well so far today (but have probably jinxed that now!)

That's great to hear! It's a good job I made cakes yesterday coz we made a truly rubbish night, followed by a day of no real sleeps and a very clingy baby. I think she's cottoned on to the up and coming christening - she knows I want to clean!!!

Anyway, she's nodded off on me now, so I'm settling down for an hour on the computer, whilst dh tidies up! Happy Father's Day!

Typical, Hiccups!

Well, SAA, if he's just f&w then can resettle himself, that's got to be a good thing.

I must admit, I do the dummy tapping/ tummy patting thing if the feed has failed to get her to sleep (or she had a decent feed only an hour earlier) so I'm not trying to cut out feeds as such, but I figure it can't be a bad thing for her to get to sleep at times without always dropping off on the breast.

Last night was better. Only one longer re-settle (with the patting etc.) and that wasn't TOO bad. Otherwise, she fed herself back to sleep pretty quickly until she decided it was getting up time shortly after 06.30. I was in bed by 20.30, so managed to pick up a few Zs along the way too.

Good for you IC and hope you had a better night than day Hiccups. When is the christening?

We had an abysmal night. Hourly wakes from 1am and a couple of long long resettles. And a rubbish feed at 7 when he refused my breast entirely and would only take 2oz from the emergency bottle, despite being obviously hungry. Argh. And this was after a day of perfect naps yesterday so I was quietly confident for a good night. Not looking forward to the rest of today! Especially as I've got used to having DH around all week and he's back at work today.

You are not alone, SAA - I'm thinking of you...

Hi, all!
SAA, sorry to hear you are feeling so bad but well done for seeking help. Hope it kicks in v soon.
Well done, IC.
Sorry to see I missed all the cakes and goodies.

Here is my rant du jour - it is not going well ...

I don't think I am depressed but very very fed up and I don't have a clue what to do to change the situation.

Hope you are all doing better than us. Sorry to bring the general tone of the thread down.

Sounds like you are getting on a bit better IC, hope it lasts!

Hiccups and SAA hope things get better soon...

We are still up and down. Had one night where I thought we might be getting somewhere as she had one or two wakeups where she cried out but managed to get back to sleep with no dummy. But then the next night was pretty bad and we didn't manage to get her down without the dummy at all...

Then yesterday I tried dummy-removal for one of her naps for the first time but that didn't work and she ended up getting really upset... then didn't try it again at bedtime as granny was babysitting so we really needed to just get her off to sleep, so ended up using the dummy for that, but then had lots of wakeups in the night when she needed it replugging, and an awful early morning, she didn't really let me sleep from 5am onwards, even when I gave the dummy... I put it down to being overtired and restless from poor naps yesterday and a rough night.

I am still thinking about trying cold turkey again sometime soon, but there never seems a good time for it - I am out tonight, we have visitors coming at the weekend etc etc. Also DH started saying maybe we should do cold turkey during the day but give her the dummy at night so he can get more sleep , I am really not convinced that would work though as surely the point of cold turkey is to get her to forget about the dummy, not just confuse her about when she can or can't have it! Plus he might get more sleep that way, but I won't if I have to keep replugging her all night like last night...

Thanks all. PDW I really sympathise. I've been about to give up bfing for, well, about 14 weeks now but have always managed a bit more. But get to my wits end when he refuses the breast for no apparent reason. Sounds terrible but it's a relief to hear someone experienced say that they weren't head over heels in love with the baby stage. I find it so difficult to hear others tales of blissfull motherhood when I'm struggling. Hope your appt with the peads goes well. Which sleep specialist are you talking to?

Sorry to hear you are still up and down with the dummy MyNameIs. I'm currently having arguments discussions with my DH about dropping the night feed. He is under some sort of misguided illusion that it will sort out the night waking and persuade DS to eat more in the day. Of course, DH isn't the one who gets up every hour...

Going to find myself some of PDW's sunshine now...

Just read your post, PDW - my heart goes out to you. Especially with 3 other DCs to look after. And I thought the first was supposed to be the hardest.

Really don't blame you feeling fed up. Wish I could suggest something, but it sounds like you're trying everything. I guess it could well be something medical - silent reflux?? Have you tried him with formula, because it may be no better...?

I'm impressed that you're still managing to be witty, despite all the baby angst you're going through.
"rant du jour"
"as you were..."

Keeping fingers crossed for an improvement to your situation - AND FAST...

Crossed posts... Oh dear PDW... Wish I could suggest something to help - big hugs to you in the meantime. I hope the paeds can give you some useful advice and that things will get better for you very soon.

Thank you all for your kind words.

I am feeling a bit calmer and less fed up than this morning just now, but hey, the nightshift is only about to start...

DS4 slept almost 2 hours this afternoon (with me lying next to him, natch, to re-offer breast or dummy a few times to keep him going ) and when he woke after he had a feed he was a different baby entirely: all smiles and gooos and aaaahs, v sweet.

Re dummy removal: we did controlled crying with DS1 when he was over 6 months old and it worked really quickly which is the reason I did not find it too traumatic. There were 2 nights crying at bedtime, first night 20min, second night 10min (we went in at 2,3,4,5 min etc to pat and shush him) and he put himself to sleep on the third night. Crucially he learned to find one of his dummys in his cot himself. He has pretty much been a good sleeper since, teething and illness notwithstanding. I do believe that this works better for older babies though... and of course does not work at all for all babies, or all parents.

I've been referred to the local community consultant paediatrician who has a special interest in infant sleep.
What I really want is a nighttime maternity nurse though ...

BTW, I am not witty, just close to the edge

Hoping for a good night for all of us!

But I STILL smiled at your ... so you can comfort yourself that you're being entertaining in the midst of your desperation...

Er...

I'll get my coat, shall I?

Anyway, great news on the nap PDW - corner turning, maybe? The naps do start to lengthen about now-ish, you could be onto something.

DD has now been napping for more than two hours, not bad as it started in the sling on the way to the bus stop and continued after I managed to transfer her into the pram at home...

Ah - well, she's just woken up actually, but that's ok - she had a good long kip and time-wise, that works for her afternoon nap.

Better go!

Last night was averagely poor, btw....

Paracetamol required today (by me)

Hi ladies, thanks immaculateconception for the invite over here.

I have an almost 4 year old who for the most part sleeps well but wakes too early (around 6-6:30am). I have a 7 month old (almost) who sleeps from 8pm-5/5:30am with a million wake ups in between. He also naps for the minimal amount of time to recharge his batteries in the day.

I am sorry there needs to be a thread like this, but thank you for having one!

Welcome, WF! Pull up a hammock....

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

A million wake-ups? Blimey, I thought 6 was bad

Well, yesterday afternoon's nap went up the Swanee for various reasons, but that big lunchtime one must have stood DD in good stead because she remained reasonably cheerful, just inclined to fuss on the Metro on the way home from a friend's house. (It was unfortunate...she'd just dozed off nicely in the sling when a big loud WOOSH!! from the train abruptly woke her up and frightened her. Think I'll take the bus next time).

Mind you, I went for an earlier bedtime because of the non-existent afternoon nap and it took an hour to get her off to sleep (usually she's much faster), although she didn't go into meltdown, thankfully, was just too chirpily awake to sleep for a while. She then awoke an hour later and proceeded to do so three more times before finally settling down properly.

I had everything clenched anticipating a shite night after that, but in fact it wasn't too bad - still plenty of wake-ups, but no MEGA resettlings, for which I am truly thankful. I even got her back to sleep after she woke up full of beans at 0600 (took two feeds and a load of tummy patting...after forty minutes of it, she finally dropped off on my arm, with me too nervous to extricate it until I lost all feeling and had to use my other one to slide it out from under her. She stayed asleep, luckily, until 07.20 - which I considered acceptable for getting up.

How's everyone else doing?

Well I am having a horrible time

I did have one lovely night... after another rough night on Sunday, DH said he would take a turn at dummying on Monday night so I went in the spare room. The plan was that I would come back around 4 or 5am to feed DD. I woke up once and heard crying, but looked at my watch which said 12.50 so I went back to sleep. Then next thing DH was waking me up and it was 7am! It's the first time I have had 8 hours almost uninterrupted sleep since before DD was born, it was fab!

Turns out my watch had stopped (I thought it was very light when I woke!), and although DD had woken loads of times in the night, she went back to sleep (eventually) every time when DH gave her the dummy, and the only time she didn't wake was when he was expecting her to need feeding! So it seemed like she just didn't really need it.

BUT... as she was still waking loads, we decided we had to try cold turkey again. So since yesterday morning we have not given her the dummy; but it has been hell.... Yesterday was bad enough but as DS was in nursery, I could spend time soothing her and managed to get her to sleep without it a few times (though never for more than 20 or 30 minutes before she woke again); also took her for a long pushchair so she wouldn't get too overtired. Then the night started reasonably well, got her down in about 20 minutes, and back to sleep after her dreamfeed too without too much trouble.

But then she woke about 1.45 and could NOT get back to sleep for absolutely ages, and was crying terribly - I was that close to cracking and giving back the dummy but didn't want to undo all the work so far. By 3 she was still screaming so I fed her in desperation, although she doesn't normally need anything then, and after that she finally conked out until just after 6.

Then today has just been a nightmare - I have DS today too, so it was hard to get time to settle her without leaving him on his own too much (and the one time I did get her to sleep, he came barging in and woke her again...). She is getting more and more tired but harder to settle, and just gets really upset as soon as I try to put her to bed. DH has her in the pushchair now so she at least gets a bit of a nap (he took the afternoon off to watch the match!) but I am not looking forward to when he gets back and I have to try the crib again - or to tonight, as I think it may be worse than last night.

If I could see any alternative I would give up, as she is getting so upset, poor thing... but if we give the dummy back now she will just be even more dependent on it, and will keep on waking loads of times every night to cry for it. So I think I need to try and tough it out somehow, for all of our sakes...

Sorry you are having such a rough time MyNameIs. Sounds like you are doing the right thing though- not sure I'm brave enough to get rid of the dummy yet, especially for naps. Glad that your DD's mega nap did the trick IC and that the night wasn't so bad.

And welcome WF. sorry you're here too- hope you brought the gin.

We've had a few rubbish nights and much disagreement between DH and I about how to handle which makes it worse. Last night a looong resettle from 2 and then hourly wakes. He wouldn't go back to sleep at six and as a consequence, his day and naps have been out of kilter and he's been out of sorts. Especially frustrating because in a desperately needed bid to get out of the house, I had decided to sod his routine a bit and just stretch his awake time. But because he'd already had such scratchy naps, this nap has been pretty much non existant. A long night ahead..