Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

Slumber Party...The Sleep Deprivation Support Thread

249 replies

InmaculadaConcepcion · 27/05/2010 13:12

We're all in this together... how about a bit of mutual schadenfreude/grim humour/shared agony as we blearily stumble through another day...

OP posts:
HiccupsAllDay · 13/06/2010 13:56

It's all gone a bit quiet over the weekend, how is everyone? I've had a couple of bad nights, made up by a half day of baby mooning today!

MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 13/06/2010 15:36

Up and down, up and down (but very down today )

Friday night was GREAT! Partly because I finally gave in and spent the first part of the night in the spare room, with earplugs in, while DH took over the dummy plugging and unplugging. 5 straight hours of sleep, bliss! - hadn't had anything like that for weeks. DH came to get me when she needed feeding and then I came back to our bedroom and managed a little bit more sleep there too after the feed.

Also, DH said while he had her he only had to put the dummy in once, and several times she had squeaked but then gone back to sleep on her own - so we thought, great, finally some progress perhaps!

Only thing is, last night was back to the old constant wakeups and struggling with the gentle-removal thing, so I am exhausted again and DD is totally overtired, not helped by her not managing to nap well today either so I don't have great hopes for tonight. Plus she seems to be on a growth spurt, and possibly teething as she has been biting me when she feeds...

I have started thinking maybe Friday night was a fluke or caused by giving her Calpol earlier in the day after her jabs. It is just getting more and more crazy, when I try to get her to nap she just lies in bed obsessively pulling her own dummy out over and over again and then crying because it's gone. Can only hope things will get a bit better once she gets over the growth spurt, but I'm not very hopeful as that doesn't seem to be the main issue...

Hope everyone else is managing a bit better than us?

InmaculadaConcepcion · 13/06/2010 15:54

Oh, poor you MNIIM.... ugh... Once again this thread's standard routine of a good night followed by a shitty one....

Last night was neither great nor terrible at Casa IC. The hours between 03.00 and 05.30 were one big fidget and arduous re-settling, but otherwise the usual waking up every couple of hours pattern. Feel a bit weary today, truth be told (!)

DD is still napping okay, although it feels like it's getting harder to settle her into those as well. She's 16 weeks corrected on Tues...4 month sleep thingy..?? Anyway, she's also taken to crying in her sleep then waking up still crying after her afternoon nap. Not sure why, as mostly when she wakes up she initially doesn't do anything, then just whimpers a bit or coughs for attention. Proper crying after a sleep is rare. She was very upset today until a feed and a cuddle calmed her down.

Babies are mysterious creatures, to be sure.

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 14/06/2010 09:44

19.00-22.00 sleep then awakenings every hour after (pretty much) including a couple of long-ish resettlings. Yo-yoed a bit between bed sharing and her nest. Poor DH, I'd been hoping she would at least do her fidgeting and awakenings reasonably quietly, as he was shorter on sleep than usual, but no. He couldn't even take refuge in the spare room as we've got a guest staying. Luckily he's being fairly philosophical about it today (if slightly more irritable than usual...)

OP posts:
HiccupsAllDay · 14/06/2010 11:49

Reasonable nights sleep till 4am when she latched on and didn't come off till I got up at 7! Not helped by dd1&2 who are both getting a cold and were up and down all night into dh's room (i sleep in dd3's room). Only thing that's keeping me going is dds new trick of sort of humming whilst feeding!

MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 14/06/2010 14:30

Well I went in the spare room again (with earplugs too!) so had 5 hours' straight sleep, feeling sooo much better this morning! (Thank God as there were tears yesterday). Then I woke at quarter to 4 and went back to our room ready for her feed. DH said she had been very hard to resettle at one point (a very long wake-up starting round 1.45 seems to be becoming a habit...) so I thought we were making no progress. But then after her feed, I gave her the dummy as she was crying but she dropped it and started "singing". I was just going to put it back in and realised she had dropped off to sleep without it! Then she woke about an hour later again, but again managed to settle herself with no dummy! So maybe we are at least getting a little bit of progress.

Mind you I have just spent AGES trying to get her to settle for a nap because she couldn't keep the dummy in long enough to get to sleep. So frustrating when she keeps pulling it out, then crying but starts pulling at it again the second I put it back in. I know it's not reasonable to get angry with a 4-month-old but I was really having to take deep breaths at times!

InmaculadaConcepcion · 14/06/2010 14:56

I found my DD needed the dummy more for naps than overnight sleep - not sure why that is exactly, but the pattern you report MNIIM is very much what we went through too.

DD is now asleep in her pram without her dummy, though - so there is hope for you MNIIM. But yes, it IS annoying, isn't it?

Glad you picked up a nice sleep stint - wow!

OP posts:
PacificDogwood · 14/06/2010 19:29

Hi, guys, absolutely no day time naps without boobie in mouth here still . Nights okish, except that I have to go to bed with him - and then fall asleep myself, wakening @ midnight minus dinner, still dressed etc...

Anyhoo, here is what one of the March 2010 mums was told by a sleep consultant she hired:

"We went through a whole day in detail talking about what she normally does. She thinks she's a baby who needs a lot of sleep (based on the hours she's having during day at mo) and, as she's sleeping well (95% of the time anyway) at night, should be easy to get in to the routine.

She put her down the moment she was tired (she said better put her down 15 mins before she's ready than 1 min after the window so to be over-cautious when watching for tired signs).

She showed me how to swaddle when they've outgrown a swaddling blanket: put in baby sleeping bag, get pram sized sheet and fold in half (so it's long and narrow) and lie them on it with top of sheet level with top of shoulder, then tuck the ends over their arms and under their backs so they are lying on them. Also tuck the end of sleeping bag under them when you put them down.

She suggested doing this consistantly for daytime naps and then switching to it at night when she's outgrown the swaddling blanket.

She then (in a dark quiet room) put her down and legged it. We went back in after 3 mins and laid a hand on her firmly for 5 secs and went out again, repeated this after 5 mins, then after 7 (and if she'd kept crying after another 3 mins - important not to always go in after 2 or 3 mins as they'll learn you are coming back at regular intervals).

If she had still been screaching after 15 mins (she wasn't, she was grizzling) we would have done pick up put down for a bit).

As it was she fell asleep after 20 mins and slept for 40 mins (the longest stretch ever in her cot.

While she slept we devised a routine. She said I should stick to it religiously for 2 weeks, with her having all her naps in the cot and then once she's doing it regularly I can break it - as long as she has about 4 sleeps out of 7 in her cot.

A few principles of routine (though she would craft it differently for each baby):

  • 3 naps a day with a long one about lunch time and last one finishing about 2 hours before bedtime
  • Feeding every 3 hours, but obviously more often if a growth spurt or if she seems hungry earlier
  • while she's getting in to it she advised using bin bags to totally black out windows
  • during this 2 weeks getting her used to it, once she's gone in to her room for the nap she should stay in there for the duration - if she's supposed to be napping for 2 hours she needs to stay in her cot (apart form PUPD if she's upset) for that long. If after 4/5 days she's consistently napping for 1.5 hours rather than 2, she'll change the routine to reflect that
-it's good to start it over the weekend so DH can help
  • if she really won't settle in to it she's suggested using rolled up cellular blankets to support her sleeping on side in the day as often they like this
  • play in cot during day, have a fun mobile, favourite toys, but take these away before sleep
-put a photo of your face in the cot and somewhere an item of clothing you wore the day before

Controversially she wasn't keen on Amby for over 3 month olds. She couldn't argue with the fact that S slept well in it at night, but said as daytime sleep is lighter the movement could be waking her and that you can't do the whole playing in the cot to make it a fun place in the Amby. She also said it would be a good idea to do daytime naps in cot as it'll get her used to it and won't be too hard a transition out of Amby when the time comes and that as we're working on napping at the moment and getting her used to something new it would be a good time to get a cot for daytime. I can see her point, but not quite decided yet..."
screwed up night wakings. I know it works really well for some though..."

Righto, back later maybe, 2 year old screeching, bedtime battle to commence...

HiccupsAllDay · 15/06/2010 08:01

Oh well, I had a couple of reasonable nights, we seem to be back to the 4am routine again .

Wouldn't be so bad is dd1&2 didn't have colds, so they were up at 5 as well and look like they are giving it to dd3 - can't imagine nights getting much worse!!!

On a plus point I can't remember feeding between 11pm and 4am - I know I did, but I can't remember .

InmaculadaConcepcion · 15/06/2010 12:52

Interesting stuff, PDW, thanks for sharing!

Interestingly, DD's naps seem to be conforming to the pattern outlined above - if they aren't interrupted by going out or whatever.

This boob-in-the-mouth thing gets a bit much, eh?! I managed to keep DD in her own nest last night, thanks to a little judicious use of the dummy (with tapping - she seems to be more prepared to take it if I do that)to help her settle a couple of times. Otherwise, the kind of non-stop suckling nights outlined by PDW and Hiccups are creeping in here as well.

Still, 5 awakenings last night - about every couple of hours - but thankfully, she resettled quickly each time, which helps. I tend to lean against the pillow trying to keep myself sleepy by keeping my eyes closed while she feeds, the idea being that I can drop back off again fairly quickly once she's finished. Seems to mainly work.

Aw, Hiccups, bummer with the colds... DD's now made it to 20 weeks without catching one, but I know it's got to happen sooner or later. Really hoping it's later....

OP posts:
MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 15/06/2010 16:22

Well I had another horrible night

DD seemed to be getting a habit of a "bad" wakeup round 1.45 when she would be very hard to settle back to sleep, so we tried the wake-to-sleep thing and I set an alarm for 1.40 and gave her a few little nudges (so she stirred but didn't wake) to see if it would prevent the big wakeup. It may have worked, as she didn't wake up then, so that's something at least.

But then she had a fairly big wakeup at 3am instead which it took half an hour to settle her from, followed by feeding at 4.30 and then several more wakeups ending in a 6.30am singing session... and this time it was me "on duty" all night so I never got more than about 45 minutes' sleep at a stretch after 1.40. Plus I was gutted that she ended up going to sleep with the dummy every time (except when she first went to bed), as I either couldn't get the pulling-out thing to work or was just too tired to try... So no feeling of progress like we had the night before.

Still at least I have got her to have 2 good naps today, so tonight might be a bit better, and also I think I will have to insist on the spare room again for at least part of the night, to catch up on sleep as last night's was so interrupted. Thank goodness at least it has been a nice sunny day here to cheer me up a bit.

I suppose things might get better when her growth spurt is over too, though it hasn't seemed to make her feed more at night, only in the day mostly. Anyone remember how long they usually last?

InmaculadaConcepcion · 16/06/2010 11:42

Oh, poor you MNIIM... not sure how long growth spurts last, suspect it varies from baby to baby (like everything..)

I allowed myself to be cautiously optimistic last night when DD managed more than 4.5 hours on her first sleep stretch. Of course, after that she woke up every 1-2 hours and took a couple of hours to resettle at one stage... meh...

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 16/06/2010 19:43

If you haven't already read the sleep webchat, I highly recommend it! Might make you feel slightly better about the missed sleep, if nothing else...

OP posts:
PacificDogwood · 16/06/2010 20:09

IC, can you post a link, please? I cannot find it - obviously a bit thick from sleep deprivation .

Not a good day here today, was tearful on the way home from school with my screaming DS in the pram (as every day) not having a clue how to get himself off to sleep .
He had his 2nd lot of vaccs today and I spoke to HV then. She was perfectly nice and full of sensible albeit not new advice: I am just not ready for CC or CIO or 'enforcing' a routine or similar. At the same time I cannot go on like this; it is unfair on DS, unfair on my other kids and no fun for me or DH.
Hohum, my parents are coming to visit tomorrow for 10 days and they are a phantastic help (much as I know already I'll be ready for them to leave again in 10 days time ).
Wishing you all a good night.

HiccupsAllDay · 16/06/2010 20:13

PD have you tried using a sling? DD LOVES her and it's great for school runs, esp if you can master feeding in it... I got so upset listening to her scream in the pram.

MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 17/06/2010 10:22

PD also have you tried doing mammoth pushchair walks (the "he has to fall asleep eventually" approach, so he can learn to sleep there)? You have my sympathy, can't imagine what I'd do if DD couldn't even sleep in the pushchair!

IC what is the webchat? Sounds interesting.

We are still up and down, but not quite as down as before at least. I had a good 5hrs sleep in the spare room on Tuesday night (though followed by lots of waking in the early hours after I came back to feed her) and DH said she was not TOO bad while I was away.

Then last night she had one horrible long wakeup around 3 when it took ages to settle her, though partly because I was really trying to do the pull-off thing and settle her without the dummy (gave up in the end though after over an hour of trying, plus a feed...), but at least she didn't wake many more times apart from that one. Maybe the wake-to-sleep thing worked for the 1.45 wakeup, as we haven't had that for 2 nights - even though we only did it once as DH slept through the alarm the second night! Might try that for the 3am wakeup tonight and see if we can nix that one as well. Naps are still not great, but at least she sleeps well in the pushchair when I get the chance to take her for a long walk (have to fit in with DS though).

I wish it was easier to tell if we are getting anywhere with the pulling-out thing. I suppose we have been having a few less night wakings, but long ones when they do happen (and not sure whether less is because of the dummy-pulling or other things); and it is still very very hard to get her to go to sleep without the dummy, and it is messing up her naps in bed quite a lot! If we don't get any concrete progress soon I might be tempted to try cold turkey again and see if it works better this time (it did work for DS only at 2nd attempt).

InmaculadaConcepcion · 17/06/2010 11:35

Sorry, should have posted the webchat link when I mentioned it! It's here
I skipped most of the questions and moved straight onto the answers to save time.

How old is your DS PDW, I forget?

Yes, the "gentle" dummy removal method is very slow MNIIM - think I mentioned before, it probably took a good 6 weeks of it before DD became less dependent. I told myself I had no problem with her using it to settle into sleep, as long as she could then do without it to remain asleep (and indeed get through from one sleep cycle to another). After the period recently when she rejected the dummy entirely, she's now taking it again for settling, but not always needing it. And she seems to be generally fine about staying asleep when I remove it. That's probably where you want to aim for (although if your DD will nod off fairly easily without it once you've gone cold turkey, fair enough. I only re-introduced it for an easy life and because DD was simply substituting the dummy with my nipples, which wasn't the most convenient way of doing things from my point of view!)

OP posts:
MyNameIsInigoMontoya · 17/06/2010 11:55

Oh yes that one, had forgotten all about it in my sleep-fuddled brain although I did read about it before it happened and thought I must look at the answers (nearly posted a question but never got round to it)! Must have a good look through when I get a chance, not now though as DD is shouting for me! Thanks IC.

HiccupsAllDay · 18/06/2010 08:15

Another rubbish night for me I'm absolutely shattered! Oh well keep plodding on...

PacificDogwood · 18/06/2010 09:21

Hi, all, hope you are all surviving!

Hiccups, my sympathies, rubbish night here as well if that helps (I know, it does and it doesn't help to know others are in the same boat ).
DS did not go down until 2 am - we had been trying from 8pm, gah!! Then slept til 6am (not bad), had a feed, sleeping since . I am of course up to get the others ready for school...

And yes, I am using a sling (Sleepy Wrap, much like a Mobi) which has been an absolute life saver when I just had to be hands-free. He only sometimes goes to sleep in it now, but is becoming a bit too nosey and and awful lot of squirming goes on. Also: It Is Too Hot .

Re long pram walks: oh, I have done them!! He is likelyy to conk out after a while, but will wake the very second the wheels stop rolling ie I have to stop at a pedestrian light or similar. Shuggling the pram does not cut the mustard either!

My parents arrived yesterday, they are here for a week and are a great help: they are doing school run this morning and my mum has been volunteered to do ALL the cooking in the next few days, yeah!

I am very severely tempted to try some sleep bootcamp training with DS while they are here to do the toddler taming.. DS is 14 weeks btw, IC.

Have a nice and restful day

InmaculadaConcepcion · 18/06/2010 10:37

Oh, major bummer both Hiccups and PDW.... ew...

Naps were a bit all over the place yesterday with DD so she went into meltdown at (early) bedtime (last nap ended 15.30 which is annoying - just too early for bed-time, just too late to fit in another nap and not mess up the night...) - luckily, with a little perseverance (bouncing gently on the bed while holding her etc.) I got her calm enough to feed - then it was a fight to keep her sufficiently awake to take a decent amount before she zonked. She woke 5 mins later crying, then zonked again, thankfully (18.30). Then she did 4 hours and after that every 2 then 1.5 until 0600 when she was wide awake (previously she fed back to sleep fairly fast). So overall, not a bad night. I got to bed very early too so don't feel too shattered...

I think the general feeling is until they hit 5.5 months, sleep training is tough going (too many other things happening in their brains), but no harm in giving it a go, PDW - it might just work! Best of luck x

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 18/06/2010 11:16

BTW, great word "shuggling"!!

OP posts:
HiccupsAllDay · 18/06/2010 16:12

Well almost made it through the day... going to LLL meeting tonight, hoping they may have some suggestions but suspect they may just say it's normal. It's so draining carrying her everywhere.

Suchanamateur · 18/06/2010 18:57

Hi all- sorry to see the thread hasn't died while I was on hols because all yr DCs suddenly started sleeping through.. But glad to come back to some support!
Holiday was nice and didn't seem to feck up night sleep more than usual although naps suffered a bit so next week back to work on those and we too are beginning to rely rather too much on the dummy. Suspect tonight will be a write off though as he hasn't slept since lunchtime-plane engines didn't work on way back. Currently refusing to sleep in the car.

What was difficult about the holiday was being there with another couple with an unreal angel baby. Slept perfectly in the day, anywhere and has slept through from 8 weeks. They weren't smug about it but I found it pretty hard. Such a different parenting experience.

DS also has begun to refuse the breast more and more often and I'm genuinely concerned about his intake. His feeding has always been bad but this is ridiculous. I think we may have to bite the bullet and give up. It's just become too distressing. Also, while I was away I finally acknowledged that I probably do have PND and I'm Going to ask the gp for ADs as they have worked for me in the past. But am not keen on passing them to DS.

Sorry for my rather down post. On the upside, it was nice and sunny. Wishing you all good and super sleepy babies.

HiccupsAllDay · 18/06/2010 19:01

Suchanamateur I feel for you really, but well done for acknowleding what is a really difficult condition to admit to. Sending you out some super big hugs, and hope you feel well again soon xxxxxxxxxxx

Swipe left for the next trending thread