Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

Original poster

Im doing controlled crying and its killing me hearing my baby crying

208 replies

ellideb · 11/02/2009 19:00

Please give me some words of support to carry it through as I would feel cruel to pick him up now after leaving him for 25mins

OP posts:
barnsleybelle · 12/02/2009 21:16

Trinity... what an awful thing to post. You are a fellow mum who knows how difficult parenting can be and surely when the op is clearly feeling so low then how do you think a post like that will make her feel. Shame on you. She did not as for opinions through AIBU but asked for encouragement.

For what it's worth i did a study for work. It wasn't published and was simply something a few of us were interested in.
We asked around 500 adults about their current sleep issues. We then asked them to to ask their mothers if they were assisted to sleep as babies or allowed to settle themselves. Out of the 198 people who had problems as adults 89% of them has been assisted to sleep. Out of the remaining who did not have problems only 15% had been assisted to sleep.

kalo12 · 12/02/2009 21:16

I would go in and comfort him. 25 mins is a very long time for a baby.

I think its very bad. sorry

Original poster
ellideb · 12/02/2009 21:18

popsycal i have sent you an email.

trinityrhino please read the thread carefully before making judgements on me. He is not a 'poor, poor baby.'

OP posts:
Original poster
ellideb · 12/02/2009 21:21

popsycal I have tried to email you but have received a delivery failure status notification?? will try again tomorrow.

OP posts:
izyboy · 12/02/2009 21:22

ellideb. As fox says do what you feel is right. You will always get the full range of opinion on MN.

dittany · 12/02/2009 21:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bangandthedirtisgone · 12/02/2009 21:29

OP, hope you are ok.

Trinity - shit-stirring as usual.

dittany · 12/02/2009 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
ellideb · 12/02/2009 21:35

Yes I'm ok thanx, LO is fine, not abused, neglected or damaged in any way proven or otherwise but sleeping soundly and peacefully, not a peep out of him all evening because I cuddled him to sleep. Gosh I didn't realise this was such a hugely controvertial issue. Now everyone please stop arguing about the finer points and be quiet lest you wake up my little boy because if you do then you can come over here and settle him again.

OP posts:
CHEQUERSmate · 12/02/2009 21:36

My friend told me the other day that a peadeatrician advised her friend to strip her non-sleeping baby and leave him to cry it out because the only danger to him would be from over-heating. I was definitely about that.

That said, my DD cries in the car quite a lot, for about 5/10 minutes at a time so presumably I'm flooding her brain with cortisol and adrenaline and am a fully paid up member of the shit mothers club.

Ellideb, hope you are ok.

kalo12 · 12/02/2009 21:40

weissbluth is a total geek!! all those long boring articles and stats in that big thick book that no tired mother has got time for and basically he tells you in each chapter to let your baby cio for 6 hours.

he's a total nerd. I have copy of his book which i can't bring myself to pass on cos its so harmful, and at the same time i don't want anyone buying a new one and making money for him. I actually have sleepless nights, like i dont anyway!, worrying about this

floozles · 12/02/2009 22:01

Dittany my issue is with the response that this poor mum got, being told that she may have caused her child brain damage, and that her behaviour was tantamount to neglect and child abuse. That is my dispute. People who state as fact something that is only suggested by research are abusing that research and spreading misinformation.

I collected urine specimens from babies and then compared the cortisol levels to about 86 different variables - it was a terrible project in terms of design, and I have no intention of inflicting it on anyone. I did, however have to do a fair amount of background reading and trawling through journals, (esp with regards to cortisol and the suggestions that elevated cortisol levels can damage the hippocampus in animal models.)

I am not dismissing anything.

I have no desire to engage with you in a debate about whether prolonged crying causes harm. I have already said many times I am not an advocate of controlled crying. I said before, and I'll say again, that there is certainly some information that has been linked to that provides food for thought. Sorry if you were looking for a fight. I'm potentially agreeing with you.

Don't believe Weissbluth was actually mentioned at any point until you mentioned his name, so forgive my ignorance. Glad you take my point about the fact that just because someone's medical don't mean they know what they're on about, or that the papers they publish are reliable.

And I'm sorry you felt patronised. No really, I am

Am getting disapproving looks from DH ...

I'm off to bed.

floozles · 12/02/2009 22:03

Blimey, my life's too short to spend this much time online. Ellie, I hope you have a peaceful night.

clemette · 12/02/2009 22:32

Weissbluth is mentioned on page 1 of this thread. He is one of the extremely rare "experts" who would even contemplate advising leaving a young baby to cry. Even she who must not be mentioned would not advise it for under 6 months. I think it is the age of the baby that elicited the strength of the response.
I myself find Sutherland's The Science of Parenting the easiest synthesis of the research to date.
As a matter of intersest floozles, do you have any children?

Sam (also a doctor but I had to write 100000 words )

poshsinglemum · 12/02/2009 22:51

is this for real? I hope not. you feel horrid for a reason- it is a horrid form of
torture sleep training.

foxytocin · 12/02/2009 23:29

by bubbalove: "Some interesting examination of the science so often quoted to bash cc, explaining that the results actually show that the more a baby cries the worse the results, so 3 nights of crying for an hour or so is actually better than a year of crying."

I am wondering if you have you ever read any of the citations that are used to back up what is said in this link of yours? answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=774928
i have perused them and they are a pile of poo. none of them support what the author of it says and i doubt any of the citations stand up to peer review anyway.

foxytocin · 12/02/2009 23:38

I wasn't responding to you VVV it was to someone else whose sentence I 'finished'. Infant research into CC would not need electrodes and the drawing of blood etc. It is possible now to take samples of saliva to measure cortisol levels for example. Other non invasive techniques can measure body temp and heart rates. Still, no one has yet done cc under clinical setting (that i know of anyway) the ethics of it is too 'out there'.

But I hear it is what some Aussies are hoping to do...

dittany · 12/02/2009 23:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

foxytocin · 12/02/2009 23:55

top form dittany.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 13/02/2009 00:22

Ah, in which case, you werent being very clear

I'd really not like people to think there were groups of scientists out there, strapping babies to machines (or rockets?) in the name of science.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 13/02/2009 00:22

Ah, in which case, you werent being very clear

I'd really not like people to think there were groups of scientists out there, strapping babies to machines (or rockets?) in the name of science.

LeonieSoSleepy · 13/02/2009 13:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

popsycal · 13/02/2009 14:05

ellie i Nam thinking 9f starting no cry thing tonigt
i dot have a lot of tyime on my hands but wqill postsummaries of the main points his evening if yo wnt to join me

Original poster
ellideb · 13/02/2009 14:11

Thankyou for the offer popsycal but I am going back to basics and co-sleeping during the night and BFing on demand. I'ts what feels right and is in itself the best 'no cry' sleep solution. As for his daytime naps he goes for a nap 3-4 times a day in his cot and is getting much better at sleeping by himself and falling back to sleep if he wakes up too early. I never let him cry since that awful night. It wasn't my best parenting moment. Please do tell me about how you get on with your LO tonight when you get the time and I hope it works out for you.

OP posts:
DaddyJ · 13/02/2009 14:18

Cracking debate AND plenty of support for the OP - good thread!

As regards parenting books the latest advice is to throw them all in the bin
...and buy the latest Mumsnet Baby book

(that is, once mp has had a chance to compile it -
if the toddler one is anything to go by it's gonna be SHIT-hot!!)