Im doing controlled crying and its killing me hearing my baby crying

[ellideb]

Please give me some words of support to carry it through as I would feel cruel to pick him up now after leaving him for 25mins

themildmanneredjanitor, the advert may well show a baby crying and nothing more (I haven't seen it, we don't have a telly), however the context is an advertisment to raise awareness & money for a charity that is at the forefront of child protection work.

I did not say you should actively support someone if you feel their actions are wrong - I said exactly the opposite. I did not say I agreed with controlled crying. My issue is with how these issues are dealt with, and the sheer amount of misinformation and bad science that is banded about, dressed up as fact, that does nothing but leave parents feeling incredibly guilty that they have damaged their children.

Like I said before, there is nothing wrong with sharing information, but if it's speculative or hypothetical, then treat it as such and don't use it as if it's proven fact to attack other people who don't happen to agree with you.

dittany, I think she's floozles not floozies!!

sounds like as much science in his theory as the one that says letting them cry will damage them too ...

dittany, My baby (dc4) has acid reflux and cries with pain(well discomfort) he gets into a proper terrible cry within minutes, but I have four other children and I have to leave him (never for too long and I'm as quickly as I can be). But in order for my house to be hygenic (not perfectly clean and tidy) he is left to cry longer than any of the others. What would you recommend? I'm not being confrontational as it really breaks my heart and I suspect that the more the s=tiny brains maps responses to stress and tears the more it will.....

He is 14 weeks and being treated with Gaviscon, but I do suspect he's cried more in his few weeks than dc1 & 2's first years' put together.

Some interesting examination of the science so often quoted to bash cc, explaining that the results actually show that the more a baby cries the worse the results, so 3 nights of crying for an hour or so is actually better than a year of crying.

answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=774928

that Harvard article is certainly not science - it is the theories of two researchers, based on a little field work observing different cultures.

the other stuff sounds more legitimate but where do they get their data? not very rigorous or controlled, i imagine.

I'm glad you had a good night Ellie Whilst there are lots of guidelines for things, you also need to think about how you feel when deciding something for your baby. Us parents also have the added task of wading through the marketing that comes with a lot of 'advice' these days.

Foxytocin, perhaps I wasnt being particularly clear - I was referring to retrospective studies into both development and SIDS and how sleep is connected - if at all. I didnt mean that there were lots of scientists wiring babies up to machines, covering them with electrodes, drawing blood, and carrying out regular MRI scans.

Genuine question here (i'm not a proponent or opponent of CC particularly and am certainly against CIO, but am concerned that a lot of so called "science" is used to back up both sides). When I was a child (old gimmer emoticon) it was normal to leave a child to cry so as not to "spoil" them. My mother's regime wasn't that different to some of Claire Verity's methods TBH (altough she did actually like me!). Quite a few of my friends say the same. There's certainly no evidence of our generation being uniformly "violent, impulsive and emotionally damaged". I'm not advocating leaving a baby to cry and certainly don't do it myself, but how does this "research" fit with the experience of my (and other older) generations? It also must be remembered that the experience of me and my peers was within an otherwise loving context, whereby studies of neglected children will not be.

no one is suggesting treating children like Romanian orphans.

i'm sure every mum here loves her children, or she probably wouldn't be bothering with a mothering web site.

all i'm saying is there are different methods of parenting and it's very difficult to say one is better than another. (apart from glaring examples involving vomit, etc.)

Dittany, I'm with chandellina.

Look:

www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2004/08.26/25-hodgkins.html

Following your way of using information, if you look after your child at home & don't send them to daycare, they'll get cancer later in life. It's in Harvard, after all.

Just because something is published doesn't make it good science. Lots of bad papers get published in scientific journals, that's why they need to be read and critically appraised, to weed out the rubbish from the good research. Medics & scientists need to have papers published to progress in their academic careers.

And I'd like to know exactly how Dr Allan Schore 'has demonstrated that the stress hormone cortisol (which floods the brain during intense crying and other stressful events) actually destroys nerve connections in critical portions of an infant?s developing brain.'

He's either been slicing up portions of baby brain, having done something that he knew was harmful (highly unethical), or he's done research on animals (lets hope no-one waving his findings around is anti-vivisection), and has therefore demonstrated his findings on an animal model, not on human infants.

It's naive to say that it's in Harvard, therefore it's good, solid research and good solid science.

BTW I've done research, I have letters after my name, and I'm telling you, it doesn't guarantee that everything I write should be taken at face value

ELLIE - he sounds very much like ds3 also 5 months. Sharp little talons and all!

Can i just say that the op has not posted this on "am i being unreasonable" but under "sleep". She has asked for words of encouragement from other mums who have parented in the same way. Had she posted under AIBU then go for it, but she hasn't. If you havn't words of encouragement then why bother posting your own parenting views which she hasn't asked for.

with regards to the post.. i did cc with both mine and found it very helpful. I did go in more often to reassure, say every 10 mins or so, but just for a quick shh and to reassure myself they were ok. I have NEVER seen nor has anyone on here been able to produce FACTUAL evidence that cc causes babies to "give up". Mine are happy, loving children who come to me for everything. They are also fantastic sleepers. Don't give up if it's what you believe it, it will get better. Don't beat yourself up however, if you decide it's not for you.

Dittany, Dittany, Dittany...

1. The Harvard comment referred directly to your use of the Harvard article in your reply to chandellina, and the extrapolation of an argument based on one source alone. I've obviously missed something - who's Weisbluuth? (Not mentioned in your Harvard article as far as I can see.)

1. I am saying that just because there is an article in a University magazine describing the research that is going on in that institution, doesn't mean that the research results arrived at are infallible. Just because there is an article published in the Times doesn't mean it's infallible. Someone's opinion in a journal or newspaper is not the same as a research project testing a hypothesis.

1. I'm not saying the Harvard people are right or wrong, I'm trying to point out the pitfalls in taking something at face value, and not examining it in detail. They may well be right. They might not.

1. I'm not attempting to shut down discussion. Hence I'm replying to your post.

1. I'm well aware of the effects of cortisol, I spent a year researching the effects of cortisol, infant stress and deprivation, and wrote a 15000 word dissertation on the subject.

1. I have absolutely no intention of finding studies that show crying is benign and has no effect, or asking anyone else to either for that matter. I have never said that 'crying is completely benign and has no effect'. I'm not attempting to argue the point regarding controlled crying vs not. I am arguing for the proper, intelligent and thoughtful use of information. I don't like the idea of leaing a baby to cry at all. But of course, if you actually read what I said previously, you'd know that.

No hard feelings

ps Critical appraisal is the intellectual approach I use as a paediatrician.

Barnsleybelle my experience has been the same as yours. In fact my DS(4.5) loves his bed.

Ellideb hope your LO is sleeping peacefully.

Barnsleybelle is spot on. Very good post.

If you do CC, you have to go through with it, or you have both been through this for nothing, and that's not fair to DS. So stick with it.

Tomorrow night will be easier.

The following night will be easier than tomorrow night.

It is hard, and you will feel awful. Its bad enough without being made to feel guilty on here too.

OP I did sigh when I saw the title of your thread and knew that you would have a right old ding dong on your hands. Still Floozles has given a balanced opinion at least.

I wish I hadn't clicked on this

poor poor baby

Bugger. Posted and ran as didn't want to see all the negative comments, and couldn't be doing with getting embroiled in the same-old row.

Only to realise the thread was started last night, Ellie has come full circle and is back to co-sleeping and bf on demand.

Good for you Ellie, for doing what feels right for you.

Either read and contribute or leave it alone Ohforfoxsake.