Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

ChairmumMiaow - just read through this thread after you replied to me on mine. It rings so many bells with me, although I haven't had to get up as many times in the night as you! I'll definitely keep following it. My DD has been the amazing non-sleeping baby during the day pretty much since she was born so perhaps the 2 hourly schedule could help us. Worth a try!
Do you think it's worth buying the Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child book?

Today is a write off following me spending 3:30 to 6am up with DD last night. I even tried letting her cry for abut 20 minutes which just mad me feel bad, DD furious and DH retreat to the spare room. But tomorrow is always a new day .

The more you talk to people the more you realise, loads of people are having the same problems, which makes you feel a bit less hopeless about your own!! Avon - you are so right about the co-cleeping. Lats night when I brought her into bed I think part of me was pleased as could have another night of cuddles. Back didn't feel so pleased this morning though! Am still having problems getting her to extend her naps. Have just been out 2 hour walk so she could sleep (same yesterday) and now could do with a nap myself

peach - I know how you feel with those walks!

hadeda - last time we were in a car -which is not often and dd hates because I can't help her sleep - 20 mins was the magic crying time. 3 tmes it took 20 mins of her crying to fall asleep.

caz10 - lol at 45th minute! We were knocked off two feeds per night by a UTI, a visit to my parents and teething. before that she was 10-5. sometimes 10-7!

been to see HV. dd is putting on loads of weight but she thinks more food during the day will help. So, from today we start snacking! she says it may take a few days so will keep you posted.

Remind me, is everyone on here bf?

yes, still bf. Had another hopeless night with her on my lap till 10.45 then into cot but woke at 12. An hour and a half of trying to get her back asleep in cot resulted in her coming into bed till 7.30. Sigh Am losing sight of what I'm even trying to do. Really need her to have a night in the cot to give me hope and keep me going. Feel like I am going backwards!

We're going backwards too here. Woke every 2-3 hours last night, and I fed him which for our plan I think I shouldn't have

We were out all day and he didn't feed well so I expected him to be hungry - and ended up being worried that he was so feeding him at every wakeup (7.40, 10.30, 1, 3)
He woke again before 6 and we left him - he went back to sleep after not too long I think, then DH brought him into my bed at 6 as he was about to leave and knew I was shattered.

I really don't think it was teeth last night as he fed right back to sleep each time - and he didn't feed that well so wasn't starving hungry. So I'm going back to feeding no more than every 4 hours from bedtime tonight and will hope that helps. I'll be able to be at home to get decent feeds down him today, which should make a difference!

Good luck everyone. I wish I had helpful advice!

I know what it feels like tolose sight of what you thought you were doing. It's hard.

We had a much better night last night. She slept from 9-4am. Not much sleep from then on, mainly because I didn't go back to sleep and got fed up of feeding her back to sleep every 45 minutes.
We had a veyr busy day yesterday, though. So maybe the extra sleep was just that.

Feeding more in the mornng/ early afternoon off to a very bad start as DD refused breakfast. HO hum (she screams!)

How's everyone doing?

Last night was ok.

Asleep at 6, 5 minutes crying each at 7 and 7.30, fed at 9.45, woke at around 1 and cried on and off - fed again around 2, then up at 6.

Hopefully he's getting back into his rhythm though.

hmmm ok. Asleep on my lap at 7.15 then awake from 7.45 till 9.45. Transferred into cot at 10.30 and slept till 12.30. Feed and back down then, and again at 1.10. When she then woke at 1.50 I had lost the will to live! Let her grumble in her cot for 25 mins but this escalated into crying so brought her into bed. She is sleeping in her car seat at the moment after refusing to sleep during powerpramming! Sounds like you're doing pretty well Chairmum!

Well we were doing ok, then today hit.

Up at 6, fed, played, then fed back to sleep. Slept 7 - 7.35. Woke, played with breakfast, got dressed etc then decided we could have the nap in the sling and go swimming. Fed to sleep, put him down to get sling on and he woke up, saw the sling and got excited.

Walked into town and abandoned swimming because he finally looked like he might sleep. Hour and a half later no luck so we give up and have lunch with friends. Finally at about five past 1 he drifts off on the bus, so he's currently asleep (and with a sweaty little head) on me and looking like he's about to wake up

Grr!

Oh those days are soooooo frustrating! I've had my share though, so you're not alone.

DD ate very little yesterday. Her naps were fine but the night was foul. She woke every 90 minutes again. Maybe it was because her aunt and uncle went home the day before and she was afrain I would go too? We're getting a bit of separation anxiety here. Or maybe shee was just hungry becaus she hadn't eaten enough. grrrrr

It's really ahrd trying to make her eat more without putting her off food.

Well last night was ok.

Asleep at 6 with 2 mins crying (fed to sleep, woke up when I put him down)

I fed him at 10 (he was sort of awake and woke when I put the light on)

He then woke at 12. DH did his nappy and said it was soaking.

Woke again at 2 or 3 (can't remember in my haze) for another (not great) feed

Then I got up at ten past 7 to find him happily in his cot grabbing his feet He seems to be in a great mood so far today.

I think I'll skip the attempted dream feed for a night or two and see what he does on his own.

DD woke up when I twice tried to get her into the cot about 11ish last night, having spent evening on lap. Could not feed her again as she was just being sick so lay on bed and cuddled her till she fell asleep. Took an hour and 10 mins and she cried the whole time. Ouch. Woke at 2.30 and 4.30 for feeds. Am definitely doing PUPD after our weekend away next week, as need to pick something and stick to it, as I'm sure all these things are just confusing her...

peachsmuggler - you have my sympathies - especially if your DD is sick. We'll be here when you start your PU/PD though, to help you through.

Perhaps we should start a "poor sleepers 5-10 months" support threat instead of this one

Anyway, I'm happy to say something is working today. DS had his nappy, book and feed and was still wriggling around, but had been eye-rubbing while feeding, so I knew he was hungry. I put him in his cot, covered him with his blanket, put his mobile on and walked away. I peeked in every couple of minutes. He watched his mobile, played with his blanket for a bit... then next time I peeked, he was ASLEEP!!! You'll all understand my complete bounce-up-and-down joy at this! (So it is possible, even though I don't think we're fixed, he can do it!)

Wow! That's great Chairmum you must feel fantastic! Sounds like you and DS are making great progress. Thanks so much for the support, it really does help. We are still going ok with the naps. They are not long enough, and not in the right places, but at least at the rights times!!! Am just going to try and chill for the next week, and enjoy the co-sleeping when she won't go in the cot, as after PUPD she may never sleep with me again!!! ; )

i keep wanting to join this thread but then get too tired to type!

ds (now nearly 7 mo) has never been the greatest sleeper, tho he was much better when about 3mo than these days...

he used to always self-settle at night, now does sometimes but more often fed to sleep or i stay with him til he goes. then wakes several times and pretty much always wants feeding.

so far, so cope-able (ok not a word but ykwim)

however, he started crawling (sortof) a couple of weeks ago, and now is pretty good half-commando, half-crawl... a week ago he learnt how to pull to standing and now wants to do that CONSTANTLY, and now his first 2 teeth are coming through and driving the wee fella crazy. they've broken through the skin so surely they'll stop hurting soon???

so not only is he UTTERLY MANIC during the day, the teething/developmental stuff has buggered his sleep up more than ever. Last night took three painful hours to settle him (not usually that hard...) ended up rocking him in pram and slept at 10pm. was def in pain, clingy overtired and miserable.

I admire you ladies for your persistence with structure etc, i find that there is always something (or at the moment EVERYTHING) that throws it off.

i really thought he'd be a bit older before he started chucking himself around the place.

oh and he has just woken up, only napped for 35 mins...

[big yawn emoticon}

good luck everyone!!!

xxx pudding

ps sorry for long post, as i said been meaning to join in for ages!

HI Chunky - I remember you from the ante-natal thread. I'm not sure we've got much structure here really (we used to) but I try and give her a nap at LEAST every three hours. If she's really not tired enough she makes it quite obvious!

Chairmum - that's FANTASTIC! DD putting herself to sleep seems like something from a fairy story at the moment! I can't believe it will ever happen.

Peach- I think you're quite right to wait and enjoy the co-sleeping for now. I didn't wait and was in pieces when her routine went to pieces when we went away. Just having it all go wrong was upsetting in itself, let alone her waking every 30 mins!

Last night she went to bed at 8 for the first time ever! She was up at 1, 4, 5.30 and 6.30 (awake for the day). I have to remember that this IS an improvement! And sh'es in her cot until the 5.30 waking too. I just have a funny feeling that before too long (ok, by about 9-10 months!) it' going to get easier. Now I've said it it won't happen!

LaTrucha - I'm the same. I have in the back of my mind that it will all sort itself out. Perhaps wishful thinking! Sounds like not a bad night you had though. Great that she was in her cot till 5.30.

Welcome Chunky/pudding (which would you prefer? ; ) This is what a lot of people say, that you feel you have sleep sorted and then something comes along to put you back to square one!!! I sympathise with you, can't be much fun with the teething. DD has 3 teeth but touch wood, none have seemed to bother her. Am not sure if that is because they came through so early (first one at 13 weeks!) but I know I am lucky that she has not been upset with them. Not that I would realise if they were disturbing her sleep, as she is such a bad sleeper anyway ; )

Amazing!! DD is currently asleep and has been since 2pm. I've got all the washing on, put some sweet potato on to roast for our supper and managed to watch a bit of the Olympics!
I've been trying to stick to scheduled day time naps for a few days now. Thought that would be easier than starting with the nights. It definitely seems to be working for the days. I'm doing a 2 - 3 - 4 routine - so a nap 2 hours after waking up, then 3 hours after that and then to bed 4 hours after that. Someone sent me a link to a blog (here) that suggested many babies her age fit in with that sort of timing so I'm giving it a try.

Now I just hope that it spills over into the nights, although last night was really good so I shouldn't moan. We were up at midnight for a feed, then she went to 5:30 and grumbled but went back to sleep until 7. Although that was on a spoonful of calpol - we have a cold to add to the mix and I just thought the poor thing seemed really bunged up and a bit quieter than usual.

Sounds good Hadeda.

We seem to have hit on a nap pattern here aswell. They're all for about 45-hour. We get up at 7.30 (though sometimes awake at 6.30)have one at 9.30am, 1ish and 4ish.

We are still ramping up the solids and protein. Sleep seems improved still. She's going to bed earlier - about 8, sleeping until 1, if I'm lucky sleeping until 5, than awake about 6.30 possibly with naps and cuddles until 7.30.

She even just refused tobe fed to sleep. She pulled herself off, I put my hand on her and she drifted off.

Dear Lord, let this continue! If it does I shall be content.

Sounds like you're all getting to grips with those naps

We've been out today, so rubbish naps. I really struggle with them as I can see when he's tired, but if I'm not home, I can't get him to go to sleep. He'll nap in the sling or pushchair, but nowadays that only seems to work when its really quiet, or when he's dropped from exhaustion, but I hate being stuck at home, and its so easy to be a bit late when you're out and throw everything off!

Anyway, on the good side, last night and tonight he's gone to sleep with less than 2 minutes crying. He cries when I put him down, but by the time I get downstairs and put the monitor on and start to get on with my stuff, he's quiet!

I think we should all have a "what is better than it was" post to cheer us up

Hi everyone

Have just read through all 7 pages of this thread and haven't started dinner yet, DH husband won't be impressed! I have a 5 month old DD who isn't a great daytime napper and quite an erratic night sleeper, sometimes 1 feed sometimes 5 ! I am v interested in th HSHHC book but I'm wondering if he mentions what to do re nap times if its a second chid. I have a 3yr old DD as well who has a hectic social life of preschool, swimming classes, etc so trying to do regular nap times in one plavce with DD 2 are nigh on impossible. Out of interest DD1 was a terrible day time napper but almost miraculously became a fabulous one when she started to crawl. And yes teething is a nightmare and when that stops something else starts. When DD1 went into a big bed she kept getting out and hasn't slept through for a year! Bless them eh ?!
Keep up the good work though, sounds as if it is paying off and you all do sound happier than you were at the beginning

Up 4 times last night but I don't care, as she slept in her cot till 5.40 this morning. Huzzah! She only had 1 45 min nap yesterday due to us being in pub most of the day.
Chairmum - I like your idea. Ok I'll start. Despite the fact that her naps are never long enough, it takes ages to get her to sleep, she's up and down all evening, and often won't sleep in her cot here is my "what is better than it was " list

1. I am able to get her into the cot and keep her asleep with a bit of rocking more than 50% of the time
2. She takes vaguely regular naps, most of the time
3. She goes to sleep at 7pm and we sometimes have a little bit of an evening before she wakes up 4)I can get her back into a cot after a night feed without too much trouble 75% of the time
4. I feel a lot better as a result of this thread!!!

Off to stay over at a friends tongiht. God knows what will happen!!!

My "things that are better" list:

1. He goes to sleep at 6, and sleeps for at least 3 hours without more than a grumble. He's done this for nearly 2 weeks now! This means I have an evening, which is wierd!
2. Now we can read his sleep queues, I can either feed him to sleep at bedime, or put him down with almost no crying and just get on with my stuff!

He's started waking more frequently than 4 hourly over the last few days - stemming from a one off day of teething, and DH nagging because he's convinced he's hungry - which from the amount he feeds he's not, so being reminded of those is helpful!

Ok. We had a dreadful night last night BUT

1. She's going to bed earlier and earlier - 7.30 tonight.

2. She is not waking every 45 minutes!

3. She takes abut 10-20 minutes to get to sleep, not 3 hours, with very little crying.

4. She is sleeping almost the whole night in her cot.

5. She has gone for 5-7 hours on odd nights before waking.

6. She is beginning to beok with being shushed back to sleep while in her cot.-sometimes!

Wow! That's quite a lot. More than I thought What a good thing to do!

We didn't have a great night last night. I try to go 4 hours between feeds (I know he can do this (and more), and it only means 1-2 night wakeups for me, depending on what time I go to bed) but last night he woke up twice, at around 2.5 to 3 hours after his feed so I left him to cry - for around 20 minutes (on and off) the first time. The second time can't have been very loud/long as I fell asleep again.

I felt dreadful at the time, but when he next woke each time, after his 4 hour gap, he wasn't desperately hungry (had a reasonable but not great feed both times) and he wasn't hot, cold, wet nappy or teething (we can tell by his cry) so I felt better.

Napping hasn't been great today either - he went down wonderfully this morning for 45 minutes but I was out at a breastfeeding group when he clearly got tired at 12, but I had to leave, and he refused to sleep in the sling, so we had a bit of a fight to get him off, and he finally went down at around 2.30 with a bit of crying (he was a bit overtired so he wouldn't feed to sleep) and with a bit of help (fed back to sleep twice) he slept for nearly 2 hours.

Had a bit of a late bedtime after that late nap, but fed to sleep with no problems, so as ever, I'm hopeful for tonight :-)