Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

Sorry - I've lost track. What napping schedules are people using?

I've tried to go back to 3 but it has NOT WORKED yet.

All confused again.

It was out of the window today but 9am has working ok for us (only 45 minutes, but consistently easy), but 12 - 12.30 was not (only going 30 -40 mins) so we're going to try an afternoon nap at 1 to see if that helps.

I've just read this entire thread with interest - you could all be me!

I love cosleeping with my six-month-old ds but the back pain and constant waking are getting too much now so have got the Weissbluth and Millpond books from the library and am implementing a new regime. It's really reassuring that others are in the same boat.

ChairmumMiaow - really sorry to hear about your dog

Yes. Sorry about your dog.

yes very sorry to hear about your dog

LaTrucha - I think we are sort of looking at 9, 12 and 4, or if not exactly that, then not leaving more than 2 hours between naps. Today we managed 30 mins at 9.15, 1 hour and 15 in pram at 12, then 1 hour together on bed at 3.30 so we'll see. The only reason she woke at the lunchtime was we were waiting on our train and a family got off with a toddler in a stroller who was kicking off big time, screaming etc, and woke DD. The dad looked well pissed off and shouted, "You can cry all the way home them" at the screaming child! Oh dear. Wonder if, in 2 years, we will all be on MN asking about tantrums.

Sorry to hear about your dog ChairmumMiaw, must have been a traumatic day.

Ernestina - it's great when you discover other mum's in the same boat as you. My DD is 6 months next week and her sleep has really improved after following HSHHC. Hopefully we can all help with tips which have worked for us.

LaTrucha - what have your DD's naps been like over the past few days? Has there been any pattern?

Last night was a good night. About 10 minutes of crying at bedtime, but he was pretty overtired as he was enjoyin his dinner too much! (running late because of everything yesterday)

Then we had a wakeup about 10 minutes later when some particularly annoying kids made a massive noise outside his window delivery the crappy free paper, which lasted about another 10 minutes or so. After that, nothing until 10.30, when it was feed time, and nothing again till 2.30 for another feed.

Those two feeds last night weren't very big, so I'm going to try upping the time-between-feeds to 5 hours and see how he responds. I reckon we can get through to 6+ between feeds and only have one wakeup!

Hello all

Good to hear how everyone is progressing! Here's my update - DD now nearly 5 months(we have been cosleeping since 2 weeks). By Tuesday night I'd decided I'd had enough - it wasn't that I had any problems getting her to nap at the right times (as per HSHHC) it was that the 45 minute/subsequent resettling period was starting to do my head in, PARTCULARLY in the evening. I was getting pretty fed up of the fact she would happily fall asleep in mine or DH's arms but would wake up as soon as she hit the cot mattress. Tuesday night she went down at 6.30pm and woke 45 minutes later. DH tried in vain to resettle her but she ended up getting v stressed and DH and I naturally ended up frazzled too. We all went to bed at 9.30pm and she eventually fell asleep an hour later but it wasn't without a fight! We all had a crap night's sleep as a result so I woke up vowing to do something to make it better.

I decided I would do pick up/put down all day so we started with the morning nap. It took 45 minutes to get her to sleep and then she slept for an hour. Lunchtime rocked round and it took 20 minutes to get her down. After 45 minutes she woke and it took another 20 to get her back down, but then she slept for 1 hour 20 (woke at 3pm)!!! To celebrate we went for a walk and as a result she skipped her late afternoon nap. DH got home in time to bath her and she fell asleep being bf at 6.30pm. All going OK - she then woke bang on 45 minutes and I could sense the tension in DH's shoulders as soon as she stirred. I went up and it took me 5 minutes to resettle her (!) DH could not believe it. She then slept til 9.30pm!!! Of course we were at an absolute loss for what to do with ourselves so watched my first bit of tv in months , it was lovely.

At 9.30pm she was fed and went back in her bedside cot where she gurgled for an hour. I then fed her again, put her back down, got into bed myself where I lay and watched her fall asleep. I could not believe it, it was all DH could do to stop me jumping up and down on the bed! She then proceeded to sleep until 3.40am (naturally I didn't get to sleep until about 1.30am ) so she then came into bed with us for the rest of the night. We got up at 7.20am and she went down for her morning nap 20 minutes ago - it took me 5 minutes to settle her.

I'm absolutely not counting my chickens yet, nor am I going to overanalyse the reasons she slept so well yesterday as i'm fully aware it could all completely reverse itself tonight! However I would urge any readers who are having similar issues to give pu/pd a try - I found that doing it in the day made it more bearable, and am astonished that I can actually get her to sleep in her cot now. I will keep you posted with and changes/developments - I have found this thread and the whole sleep topic board to be such a help and hope this will do the same for others in a similar position. Thanks MNers!

And Chairmum, v sorry about your dog

Wow AvonBarksdale, that's fantastic! When you did teh PUPD was she just crying or screaming, and do you remember how often you had to pick her up the first time? I am thinking about doing this also (dd has just turned 5 months) but can imaine her screaming for hours!!!

Avon - that's brilliant. I'm glad pu/pd is working for you, particularly as yours is that much younger.

DH and I have been talking about what we'd do different if we have #2, and the answer was - nothing for the first 3-4 months. We had a period around this time when DS was sleeping really well, and I reckon instituing regular naps, and trying more gentle settling methods would have sorted him out.

We've just had the normal 40ish minutes wakeup during the morning nap, and although its taken some time (around half an hour) before I felt he wouldn't wake when put down, DS is asleep in his cot again. We're off to the cinema in a bit, so a long morning nap and a later afternoon one (skipping #3) would work really well today!

Thanks all! peachsmuggler here's how I did it: when I saw she was tired I took her upstairs, changed her and put her in her cot. I left her there and when she started crying I went in and picked her up. As soon as she stopped I put her down - I always put her down and rolled her onto her side as that is how she prefers to sleep. In the beginning she'd start crying as I was putting her back down so I'd touch her body onto the mattress and pick her back up. The scale of crying sort of went in waves so everytime I picked her up she'd cry harder and squirm a bit more so it would take longer for her to stop crying. She did get to a screamy point but didn't stay screaming for too long, I just rocked her a bit until she calmed down. I found I got into a nice rhythm pretty quickly and started actually enjoying it! I kept repeating "time to go to sleep" to her and would always keep my hands on her when I put her down. For the first 40 minutes I was literally picking her up as soon as I put her down but then just slowly I could sense a bit of a change in her so would leave her to cry on the mattress with my hands on her talking to her quietly and eventually she just stopped fighting and went to sleep. She has always slept well in the morning and so I think it was a really good place for us to start. I'm pretty sure you will be able to find your own rhythm - I can't tell you how many times I picked her up but it was quite a few! Definitely give it a go though, like I said I'm not getting too excited about anything yet but it's well worth a try.

Chairmum I agree with you about what you'd do if we have no.2 - I would not ditch the cosleeping thing for anything - it has been wonderful and was always the right thing to do for us from the start. I completely agree with you about instituting the naps and more gentle settling though. It's one of those "if I knew then" scenarios!

Thanks Avon. Have started the 3 naps a day at HSHHC times and am going to do this over the next week. After I see how this goes, will maybe try PUPD. I think you are right about starting with naps as you have a bit more energy and will to follow it through during the day!

Hi all,

Things are getting better now we're home (I hope these aren't famous last words). She is still teething though, and can't nap without Calpol.

Well, Kristin naps are not yet settled. I decided to try and go back to three shorter naps. She sleeps pretty much bang on 45 minutes but I cannot get her to take three naps, only two. It can be extremely difficult to get her to nap.

Having said that, the two nights we have been home she has slept much better! Her first sleep of the night was five hours the first night and nearly 6 last night. I actually got to eat dinner and watch TV with dh! AlthoughI'm now thinking that if I go to bed with her I'll get a decent night's sleep.

She's going to bed earlier though, and even after her first sleep (always the longest ) she'll wake up at say 3.30, and then hourly until about 8. Thisis better!

I'm a bit stressed about the napping becaus eI do think it is key but I'm trying not to get too wound up because she is sleeping better.

Basically, utterly confused but grateful for improvements!

La Trucha - I managed to get DS to extend his morning nap to about 1hr45mins today by feeding him back to sleep at his 40ish minute wakeup - I did have him on my lap etc for about 25 minutes, but he went back down for another half an hour plus after that - and only woke when I had to go out!

I think being relaxed about naps helps, and according to HSHHC, they don't all need 3 naps at this age, so maybe yours will be one of those (I think DS is getting that way too now the naps are getting longer). If you haven't tried it, do anything you can (as NCSS says - mixing advice here )to get them to nap for a decent time. Some days I just curl up in bed with DS in the afternoon because we can then get a couple of hours together, with just minor wakeups - but for us that's for days when I just feel rubbish!

yeah, day 2 of trying to do these naps and already I feel really frustrated. She only had 25 mins this morning at 9 so was ready for another sleep at 11.45 when she fell asleep on my lap. Woke up the minute I put her in the cot and couldn't get back to sleep so laid down on bed with her and slept for about an hour and a half (though am sure she wasn't in deep sleep). I kind of feel if I can get her to sleep any way for naps and make them regular then once she is in a routine with them it might be easier for her to have them in her cot. Not got to that bit of the book yet though Maybe it is just wishful thinking. I think the thing that is so difficult about getting them back to sleep after their first awakening is not only that you spend more time doing this than tjhey do actually napping, but that you know you will be doing the same for the next 2 naps and then all evening/night. Sigh...

I must get back to doing that with dd. I used to but while teething it has been pretty much impossible to go for more than 45 mins. We were doing 2hrs before (with feeding bak to sleep).

The thing that is confusing ne is that she is sleeping better with less sleep in the day. Having said that, it has only been two days and will probababy get worse!

Another day, another bedtime.

We didn't get nap 3, but needed it because nap 2 finished at 2.30 and was way too short. (although actually he slept for a total of over 2 hours today!) so DS is currently about to get in the bath, at what, a couple of weeks ago, would have been a stupidly early time. Funny thing is I know he'll go to sleep when he's wound down! (which hasn't been taking long!)

Night 5 (I think - last night anyway)

Asleep at 6 - cried for about 6 minutes
Awake at 10 - cried for 2 minutes and I didn't even notice (I woke up but didn't hear the crying!)
Awake at 11 - had a feed - not a great one
Awake at around 2 - had kicked blankets off. DH did nappy too as this was pretty wet.
Awake at 5 - had a really good feed and straight back off to sleep.

Tonight we're aiming for 6 hours between feeds, which will make one night feed. I'm sure from how much he feeds in the night that he can happily do it, so we'll see how it goes. I'm also going to do his nappy between sides to minimise wakeup and crying

Excellent work Chairmum! We has a pretty poor evening. Down at 7.15, woke at 8 (of course) then spent 2 hours trying to get her back down with no luck and her getting increasingly hysterical. Ended up going to bed at 10 and she slept with me till morning. Am going to keep going with these naps though and hope it makes a difference. Also need to perfect the resettling technique as this is where the evenings seem to be going so wrong. Have read the relevant chapters of HSCHC and I must say I didn't really warm to Dr Weissbluth. It was all very dry and scientific and I kind of thought he was suggesting that if you didn't let your DC "cry it out" that you were a bad parent, as you were denying them "healthy sleep". However I do think that the nap scheduling seems to make sense so will continue with this and see what happens!!!

The great saga is not over!

Last night I was trying for 6 hours between feeds, but it was not to be.

Naps were ok yesterday, 45 minutes at 9.30, 1hr at 12.30 and then 30 minutes at 4.45 which was a mistake (enough to disturb bedtime but not enough to keep him going)

Off at 6.30 - cried for 30 minutes because he was overtired ,
Awake at 11 for a few minutes crying (covers kicked off, quickly back off again)
Awake at midnight - fed straight back to sleep
Awake at one - cried around 5 minutes every 10-15 for an hour
Awake at 3- clearly actually hungry so I went and fed him
Awake at 7

It seems clear that he's not ready for just one night feed so I'm thinking about staying up until 10 (have been trying to catch up by going to bed at 8 or 9 so far) and trying a dream feed so I only actually have to wake up once. Its a shame though because I was really hoping for that elusive 4 hours straight!

i am watching this thread with interest...do you all put your babies down in their cots? I mean, their night-time sleeping places?

we are on day 4 of scheduled naps and the evenings are, if anything getting worse. Had 3 naps yesterday (not for long enough but as much as we could manage). She was tired at 7 and fell asleep in my arms. Once in cot I managed to keep her asleep for 10 mins but then she was wide awake. She didn't go to sleep again till 10pm in my arms and woke up[ after 20 mins before I had chance to get her into cot. Ended up co-sleeping for 3rd night in row. Am so depressed. Will keep going with naps but am basically having to nap with her as cannot get her to stay asleep otherwise. Have no clue what to do in the evenings.

Things seem to be improving, although naps are still random - which may be some kind of consolation to you peach?

She napped for only two sessions of 45 minutes yesterday and then slept 8.30-2.30, 5.15 and then into bed for naps and sucks!

She's now sleeping 2 hours on her own after beign guided back to sleep twice int he first 30 minutes, so god knows what will happen today!

bookswapper - we haven't got that far for day naps yet.

I am still rocking and feeding to sleep although seem to have cut out really unnecessary night feeds quite easily. How's everyone else doing with this?