Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I am still pretty strung-out today (which started at 5am). Hadeda I am certainly not going to look away as hearing that your little one managed to sleep so long reminds me that such things are not just the stuff of myth. Congratulations!!

I've considered cutting out the night feeds but while he's still having 2 good feeds during the night, I can't quite convince myself he doesn't need them. Also some days he doesn't eat much solids, and other days he has almost no milk (while I'm at work) so I feel guilty in the middle of the night.

I have a deadline of his 1st birthday to stop night feeds, which is nearly 3.5 months, but I can see myself having a go at stopping before then.

Arggh, its such a tough choice, but now I'm working 2 days a week I'm finding it even harder!

How's everyone doing?

Pretty good actually. Last night I fed her at 12 and then at 3.40 (having been fruitlessly trying to get her back to sleep with cuddling since 2.30) and she then slept till 7.15. We atre definitely making progress and although we have difficult nights we are getting more and more when she is sleeping longer each time. Am sure it is just her getting older and it is great!

Not having great luck with naps as these always seem to be 30 mins but at least they are happening in the cot (excpet the pram ones when we are out).

Today I thought I would be clever and go in just before the 30 min mark and pick her up and cuddle her and then out her back down in order to get her into a new sleep cycle. Needless to say it didn't work, and who knows, she may even have slept longer without any intervention. Proof positive that they will do what they do and there is not a lot you can do about it. She did then sleep on and off while feeding on my lap for another 45 mins so that was ok.

Was doing a bit of biting at bedtime feed so it didn't last long, so may have to feed her earlier than I would like this eve but we'll see. I think she only bites though when she has had enough milk and is messing around. There is also less teeth action if I feed her lying down!

We had a great night last night, with DS sleeping from 7 through to 11.15 without a whimper. Tonight is a bit average in comparison. DH is trying to get DS back to sleep as I type (he's been up here for 25 mins already) although DS did go down to sleep at 7 in about 2 mins without any crying.

So... I'm tentatively feeling like we are climbing out of the black hole of the last fortnight.

Daytime has got a little better in the past two days as he's slept in his pram twice! That hasn't happened for almost two months now, so I am really pleased with him.

I think only feeding everty 4 hours is really working as we had another good night. She went down at 7.20 then DP settled her at 10.15 (I was already in bed!). I fed her at 11.30 then at 4 and then HAD TO WAKE HER UP at 7.50 this morning. Heard her a couple of other times during the night but she had gone back to sleep by the time I had hauled myself out of bed.

In other good news, I was woken by the postman this morning at 7 (not in itself much fun admittedly) delivering a box of 6 posh cupcakes from my lovely sister, who has been sympathising with my sleepless nights.

Have already eaten one for breakfast

Well, wish me luck - tonight we're starting a new regime.

Bed at 6ish as normal, then a dream feed at 10, then no more mummy until 4am. DH is going to offer a bottle of expressed milk (as much as he wants) but he won't get me, however many times he wakes up!

The thinking with 10-4 is that it will give me 6 straight hours of sleep (eventually), but won't encourage him to wake up for the day at 5

If after a few nights the milk is working well, but he's not sleeping between those times, we're going to start offering less milk and more cuddles, and do a gradual withdrawl type thing till we're down to patting and suchlike.

Of course we may give up after this weekend, but we'll be trying. I need my sleep!

Peachsmuggler I like the way your sister thinks! And It's great to hear you're making progress.

I didn't want to say anything earlier in case I jinxed it, but DS has gone down in r mins without any crying for 5 nights in a row now. What a relief! I was starting to hate bedtime passionately because of the crying. He still wakes the usual number of times after that, but it's a step in the right direction. He also had another pram sleep today so I'm feeling tentatively positive still.

I hope things are going well this weekend for you Chairmmum.

Great news takingit but how many mins is r mins?

Chairmum - sounds like a reasonable plan, how is it going?

We were away last night so DD slept with us on a futon but was pleased that she slept the evening on there without us before we went to bed, as this is the first time she has slept anywhere other than alone in her cot or in a bed with me. Hurrah! She did however roll off the futon (only a few inches high) during the night and I awoke to find her asleep on the floor!

Ha! Oops... I should have said 5 minutes, and I probably shouldn't have said anything at all as it took me 25 mins tonight (although still no crying so I'm not really complaining). Lol about your DD rolling on the floor Peachsmuggler; they can get themselves quite a long way in their sleep can't they? DS's new trick is turning to sleep on his tummy when I'm not looking - grrrrr.

I'm a tad shattered tonight. DH has been away since Friday morning at a conference and I'm very glad he'll be creeping home in the wee small hours tomorrow. However, it's not been a bad three days sleep-wise so I feel lucky from that point of view.

The first night was pretty trouble free - Dream feed with no problems, then a couple of wakings - DH settled the first as DS just screamed when offered the bottle (clearly he wasn't hungry)

Saturday night DS had a bit of a dodgy tummy so all bets were off (I think he fed one extra time because he'd had almost no lunch and no dinner so needed some extra milk)

Last night I went to bed at 8 as I was so knackered. DS woke around 10 and DH settled him. Fed at 1 then stirred a couple of times (but not enough for DH to go in) before a feed at 4.40. Unfortunately after that feed he decided he was up for the day. I left him there to grumble for a while, but after around half an hour he started crying. As per no-wake-before-6am policy we left him, with DH settling once, but by 5.50 he was starting to get worked up so we got him up. This 5am thing is something we really need to work on so if anyone has some hints, that would be great!

The new rules are: If we go to bed at our normal time, dreamfeed at 9.30 / 10 (if he goes to bed at 6) then no mummy till 4 (bottle only). If we go to bed early, no milk at all till 12 then no mummy after that till 4

I'm also giving up trying to get him to nap in his cot for a while as that has resulted in a lot of failed naps and a grumpy baby and mummy so he's going to nap in my bed with me reading next to him so I can try to extend the nap. If we can get him extending those naps, we'll work on the cot again for daytime.

The last plan is trying to get a mid to late-afternoon nap in to see if we can get bedtime to 7pm in the hope it fixes the 5am thing. I know later bedtime is often not the answer, but with a 6pm bedtime already there's no way we can manage an earlier one!

Anyway, anyone managed anything miraculous lately? Anything that feels like a real triumph?

No triumphs here I'm afraid. A combination of being away for a night, rubbish naps, and a late bedtime meant that DD kept waking up all evening and I was just too tired to deal with it so got into bed with her at 1am. Didn't sleep that well after that but determined tonight to do better.

I think I am going to feed her at 6 then her dad will come home and bath her at 6.30 and then she can go straight to bed. I think often we don't actually start her pre-bed feed till getting on for 7 and she is too tired. I don't want to push things back as I want DP to do the bath so if I feed her first it means hopefully we can try to get her asleep by 7. Also maybe the removal of feeding just before sleep will help us do this for naps too eventually. That's the plan anyway.

Was so tired this morning that I put toothpaste on her bum instead of the nappy rash cream. Whoops! Guess that's me out of the running for mum of the year.

Ahem. I think you were looking for triumphs? How about sleeping from 7/7:30pm to 7am since Tuesday??!!! It's wonderful! and it is a miracle!!
The only interruption was Saturday night when she woke at 4am and took until 5:30 to settle again. But that was absolutely not her fault - the damn baby monitor in her room had somehow come loose from the plug and went flat around 4am so started beeping IN HER ROOM!! Who designs these things?! It should beep in OUR room I'd have thought?! Anyway, apart from that blip she has been sleeping very well and I feel on top of the world.

It does sound like things are slowly getting better for many of us. Takingit - hope your DP will do lots of baby duty now he's home so you can recover.

Chairmum - probably a completely obvious suggestion re your early waking, but do you think there's any chance his room is getting light and waking him? When DD was very small we found the light comming in the sides of the curtains was disturbing her so put up a blackout blind as well as the curtains which helped.

Wow hadeda that it amazing! You must feel great!!!Remind me how old your DD is?

She's just gone 9 months. So this miracle will probably only last until the next set of teeth turn up (she only has 2 so far), but I'm going to stock up on sleep while I can!!

Hadeda - can you summarise what you've been doing then, so we can all marvel at you and your skill and/or luck?

Oh Hadeda - that's just the kind of news I was hoping for! I'm so pleased for you guys! And I second Chairmum... tell us your secrets!(even if it's just waiitng for LO to get a bit older ).

I am very glad to have DH home again... he's taken a lot of the pressure off already. DS went down without crying again tonight - so I think that makes it an official habit. Hurrah!

Yes Hadeda, spill it!!!

Had our first night of going to bed without bf. Did the feed at 6 then had bath, stories and bed. Took about 15 mins to get her down which is not uncommon even with bf.

She woke at 8, then 9 then fed at 11 then woke at 1.15, then fed at 2.30 then woke at 5.15 and I got into bed with her till 7.30. So in fact pretty much a normal night for us!!

Will continue with the 6 o'clock feeds for now though and see how we get on!

We're feeling positive about the night weaning here. Sleep at 6 as normal, neighbours woke DS banging around just after 9 when I was about to get up and do the dream feed so fed him then anyway.

Nothing then till around 2.30 IIRC when DS had 2oz EBM from a bottle and went back down with a bit of grumbling.

Woke at precisely 5am and wouldn't settle after a feed but I turned his light on and let him play with his cot toys and he amused himself for about half an hour so we got a bit more kip.

It just seems that if he's only taking 2oz between 9 and 5am, it won't be too hard to get rid of that, giving me some really good sleep (even if he does keep waking at 5)

Sounds great! Just looking at your original post Chairmum and thinking how far you've come, in fact how far we've all come!

We even had a decent nap yesterday. 1 hour and 15 in the morning.

This morning she woke after 45 mins but I resettled her and she has been sleeping for another 15 mins so far!

Was reading a bit of HSHHC again and he said at this age 5% of babies will nap for less than 2 hours a day. Can't belive there are only 5% of us in that boat. It seems more going by all the posts on MN. But then if you have a great sleeper/napper you probably don't post much on sleep boards I guess...[wnk]

Ummm... honestly, I think the secret is luck rather than anything we've done!!

My theory, for what it is worth, is that DD started sleeping for longer because:

1. she got a bit older and able to
2. she got a bit heavier so didn't need to fill up at night (we've had slow weight gain issues since birth, at 0.4 percentile at one point, but once she started on solids she shot up the charts and is now between 25th and 50th)
3. she could roll over - I think she prefers to sleep on her stomach as I always find her like that in the morning/after a nap
4. I stopped bf her to sleep: I feed her then put her in her grobag which wakes her up a little and then hold and rock her until she goes to sleep - about 15/20 mins. (Of course, the holding and rocking will be an issue somewhere down the line....!)
5. (Not sure this really helped DD's sleep, but it did help mine) DH started helping to settle DD at night on the weekends. And sometimes even during the week when he knows I've been sitting there for hours with no luck. Which meant I got a bit more sleep so was better able to deal with DD when she woke at night.

I did spent a lot of August really concentrating on day time sleep. Before that she'd sleep for about an hour in the morning but we never got more than about 30 mins after lunch. Now she reliably sleeps for an hour after lunch. But I'm not sure whether that did anything for night time sleep.

On the downside, when she does wake up at night now she is a MONSTER to get back to sleep. She simply won't sleep in our bed anymore - it's a play time place now - and it takes at least an hour and a half even after a feed to persuade her back to sleep.

But like Peach said, I think all our babies have come so far since we first started posting desperately. Even if they're still waking, they're showing signs of sleeping longer - or at least waking a bearable number of times .

Woo!

I'm now regularly getting sleep between 9/10pm and around 3/4am. Its amazing! He's still getting his 2 feeds, but I'm only actually having to wake up once.

DS also had a bad cough last week, resulting in a couple of cough-so-much-I-vomit-up-all-my-food sessions, which have disturbed a morning and a bedtime respectively, but once he's been settled he slept well.

Napping in the sling is going better although I think perhaps the cough had something to do with not liking to lay down so I may start trying the cot instead again.

Hi guys - I haven't left you for good but am away. My mum has passed away so I'm not sure when I'll be back. You'll probably all have perfectly sleeping babies by then! I hope so anyway.

Baby sleep crap here - as you might expect. It was just getting good!

Oh LaTrucha I'm sorry to hear that. You poor thing. Will be thinking of you.

Please accept my sympathies,LaTrucha. It must be terribly hard and, like Peachsmuggler, I'll be thinking of you in the coming weeks. Do let us know how you are when you feel up to it again - we will miss you.