Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

HI guys

Haven't been here in a while, had really bad week since friday with ds having flu, is only six months so has been very blocked up and miserable. He's been sleeping really well in the day but at night is still sucking all the time. Tried pupd and hasn't worked as he just squirms the whole time, and i've tried letting him cry a bit but i feel so bad! Think i may go insane with lack of sleep!!!!

Hi shomes - so difficult to wait until they are better, isn't it? We're waiting for Sabela's teeth to calm down but we're getting very tired in the process!

Well, mixed success.

She ate a ton of porridge at 11pm, but woke up 25 minutes later with wind. It didn't seem to have much of an impact on her sleep but she is still teething.

After DH decided that enough was enough and we couldn't carry on (leading to my going to the GP) he has now decided that the baby is fine, can do what she likes because she is happy and healthy and we can cope. I have mixed feelings about this. I am not inclined towards controlled crying, but are we just going to lurch from one 'tiredness' crisis to the next?

LaT - sorry to hear your DH is doing that - its not them that has to cope most of the time!

If it helps, I think our CIO days are mostly gone - not because we really hated it, but because
a) after that initial phase, (and possibly mostly due to moving him into his own room) DS has been generally sleeping so much better that we haven't needed to
b) its given us the confidence to leave him to cry/grumble for longer, knowing that he will often settle himself within a few minutes
c)DH now seems to be able to settle DS!

It really did help at the time, and I know we'll go back to it when we need to (for example when we are out / away and stay up late then need to get him back into the right routine) It feels bad to start with, but it gets easier as soon as you can see the effects!

Anyway, DS woke up just after DH got in from the pub last night at about 10pm. I asked DH to have a go at settling him, and about 20 minutes later, he was in bed with me!! And DS didn't wake again until 12.45 or so. We've agreed that if DS wakes before 11 each night, DH will go and settle him - after that I'll feed.

Well, in fairness he's a great help - it was just him changing his mind because it sorts of decides it for both of us as we have to be in agreement.

Does he just settle in his cot now?

Well my new books arrived yesterday but as DP has been away for 2 nights I haven't been able to look at them. DD2 did roll across the floor to eat them though, so I'm hoping she'll learn something from them!
Since DP has vacated the bed DD2 has only been waking 2-3 times a night and although this is very nice I still want to get her into her cot before she gets more mobile.
I already own No Cry Sleep solution as I used it on DD1 when she would only feed to sleep then refuse to go in her cot (sounds familiar )
The gentle removal technique worked a treat after only a few nights.
I'm going to read it through again for more ideas as I'd really like to get DD2 used to the cot gradually before I opt for the PUPD technique. Of course it would help if I could a) find time to read and b) find my copy of NCSS which is somewhere in the midst of my unpacking

How are you getting on withthe books Lucy -

Peach / Taking it - how long have you been doing PUPD now? How's it going?

Teething still here. DH and I are going to have a talk this afternoon about her strategy. He was back to 'this is impossible' mode last night because she didn't sleep until 9.30 That hasn't happened for a while.

Hi LaTrucha - It's 3 weeks since we started doing PUPD and it's going really well. Have just put her down straight after a feed and she didn't even stir. The difference between now and 3 weeks ago is unbelievable.

She is waking for a feed 2 or 3 times between 7 at night and 7-8 in the morning. I still bring her into bed after about 5 in the morning.

Have slept one night in different room and I think it really helped with her not waking up in between feeds, though she can often settle herself. We have the ILs here this weekend so we are back sleeping in with her, but it seemed Ok last night.

Will see how it goes when we do a few more weeks of her sleeping. If I find she is waking up more than twice a night, I might start feeding her at 6 then do bath and put her down at 7 to break the association of a feed before sleep.

I really feel for you, sounds like it must be so frustrating for you both. You mentioned the GP suggested CC. Do you think this would work for your DD, or like with Charimum's LO, might it just frustrate her, i.e. would CIO maybe be more effective?

We're at Day 10 with PUPD. DS still cries every time, but he is gradually getting quicker about it. Still not sleeping for long in the cot during the day, however, introducing the one sling sleep has returned him to his happy normal as he does a marathon sleep in it.

He's still teething, so it's hard to know when he wakes in the night whether it's that or just habit. He's regularly sleeping through to between 11 and 12.30 after being put down at 7pm now and that's a huge improvement. I feed him and then DH puts him down and is 'on duty' for the evening. I think DS has the idea now that he'll get cuddles but not food if he wakes earlier in the evening. He comes into bed with us at his first waking after we've gone to bed ourselves. We are currently mulling over whether to try PUPD during the night too. With teething going on I feel like it might be a bit mean - but then teething can go on for a very long time I've heard, so maybe that's a silly excuse.

LaTrucha I'm sorry things are really tough ATM. I agree with Peach about CC - we tried it once and it just wound DS up more and more each time we went in. I suspect CIO is quicker and therefore kinder for a lot of LOs.

All-in-all I'm feeling ok about DS and sleep this week. It's not easy, but we have him in the cot. I can cope with one long sling sleep a day (just - he is only 19 weeks and he has just weighed in at over 18 pounds... yikes!) and I am happy to wait until he's developmentally able to sleep for more than 30 mins in the cot before dropping the sling.

Sorry for the essay everyone! Hope tonight is a good sleep night.

THanks Peach and Takingit.

WE've made some progress here, but we're not sure what it's down to. Her teething seems to be less, so this could be it. We also put a fleece that we used to wrap her in when she was tiny down for her to sleep on and she seems to love it although I know you're not strictly meant to do this. We're also dressing her more warmly and giving her porridge at her first waking.

Last night she slept 7.30-12.30 then 4, 6.15 and 7.15. SO much better but we have no idea what helped. She also settled herself after her porridge.

We're probably going to carry on down the NCSS route, I think. We've decided to offer her a bottle at the second waking and if and when she accepts it we'll change to water. Hopefully she'll give up then.

Sounds like good progress LaTrucha!

We have been all over the place due to ILs staying. However they have gone so hoping to get back down to business tomorrow. DD refusing to nap today, but imporssible with guests anyway and having only had about 25 mins all day has now gone out in pram with DP leaving me in peace to have a bit of time to myself change the sheets, do the dishes, dust and hoover the flat.

Will be sleeping, fingers crossed, in our bed with DP tonight, and going to try for naps initially after 2.5 hours of waking to see how it goes. Also going to start trying to get up at same time of day again, as am sure will find it much easier to predict naps that way.

What fun!

Lol Peachsmuggler at the 'time to yourself'. Funny how that really does just mean housework these days (sigh). DS is still crying at every cot-sleep, and we're finding it pretty tough. I would love to find an easier way. If it weren't for my aching hips/shoulders/neck/back I'd give up for now. I have guests coming this week, so am a bit worried about how that's going to work. DS seems to have hair-trigger hearing... we are cursing our creaky old house as he wakes at the smallest squeak of a floorboard. I am sick of annoying helpful people who tell me to 'just make noise around him and he'll learn to sleep through it'. Yeah right!

Hi all - we are off tomorrow to ILs in Italy for the week. Just me and DD and neither of us speak Italian (Although DH's cousin speaks v good English so he'll have to babysit me/us!) Anyway, am hoping this will not knock DD's sleep out completely, although I am expecting a few nights in bed with me. And expecting a week of fabulous food!!

LaT - hope you have a few more settled nights, perhaps the teeth have done their thing for a few weeks.

Takingit - would be great to meet up some time.

Well we're still doing fine here, just plodding along. Most nights we're having our 2 feeds, but DS has recently (last 3 nights) decided to have a grumble at 9.30. I fed him once because I thought it was teeth, but it really wasn't (one has just about popped through and it really doesn't seem to be bothering him other than a bit more grumpiness and a refusal to let anyone touch his gums!) so DH has been settling him, and that's working so we'll keep on with that.

Other than that, no progress on the erratic nap front - had to resort to lying down with him yesterday to get him to sleep at all, and then we only just got an hour!

Ah well, never mind!

the second one should be a close baby carrier

arrgh I posted that on the wrong thread. ignore me

Hadeda meet-ups are great; but do you know I'm in Oxford? (I think Peachsmuggler is a Londoner - I've been looking at profile pics of LOs; I am not a stalker!) which is not to say that it's an impossible distance from here lol! I do occasionally manage to visit the big scary city and would be keen to meet some MNs in RL.

Sleep here is going ok - but Tracy Hogg would turn in her grave if she followed me today. I've had a lovely shared early nap with DS in my bed this morning. He then had a snooze on a pillow on my lap after his lunch, and is currently snugly sleeping in his sling on my front as I type. I feel great - much more like myself. Hmmm... I'm not sure I'm really cut out for routines and cot-sleep-rules. But (and it's a bit one) I will put him in the cot for his afternoon snooze as I have promised DH to do that at least once every day so as to not waste the work we did during our PUPD week.

Just popping in to say ...

O MY GOD!

I decided I was fed up and I was going to try and make a few more demands of the baby. So I decided she was going to go into her cot 'sleepy but awake' and then do PUPD.

So..

I took her upstairs, fed her, bounced her, for one minute, gave her the other side but after a few minutes she was unlatching and looking round for DH who usually puts her to sleep. So I put her in her cot, speaking to her gently, rocked her by putting my hand on her stomach. She looked around her for a while, then turned on her side and WENT TO SLEEP! Seven minutes after she went in the cot and without any crying.

I was really prepared for a battle as she's been in our bed for two weeks, but now I feel like Supermum! She's only been asleep for an hour but I simply cannot believe it. Even if we have a horrendous time tonight or tomorrow, I know she can do it and so does she.

takingit- I'm totally with you on doing what feels right for you. Hooray for cosy naps!

Chairmum- glad it's still steady as she goes.

Peach - think you're spot on about nap timing and getting up.

Hadeda - enjoy your holiday!

And she slept for eight hours! (But she does have a cold, I realise, so maybe she's just knackered!)

Hello

I'm not a co sleeper and I haven't read all this thread so tell me to bog off if this is unhelpful, but have you read healthy sleep habits, happy child? I really liked it and it's been quite good with my DS.

Yup. It's quite popular on here.

Wow LaTrucha that's fantastic. you must feel great!!! Just when you think it is all going horribly wrong you get a little victory and it makes everything seem ok!

After a couple of ok naps I thought last night would be good but she woke every hour from 7 and was awake from 12-1.30am However she then slept till 4.40 which is great and she then came into bed till 8.30. So you see, have not got up early like I was planning. So difficult when you are tired. Maybe I will try tonight!

Welcome macaco Yes a few of us have read it and been trying the nap schedules with varying levels of success!

Well we went backwards last night. He went down fine the first time - 5 mins, but when he woke at 9.05 poor DH did PUPD with no success right through to DS's next feed! Ugh. I was sitting downstairs feeling sick for both of them. We don't know what it was (I suspect teething pain) but he was only doing very sleepy cries the whole time rather than yelling the house down. Hmph. Never mind. Today is another day and I will keep on with the PUPD.

LaTrucha thank you for your good news - it's a lift to hear it can happen!

Quick update - decided to give an idea in NCSS another go.
I've been feeding DD2 until she's sleepy then rocking her down to sleep in her cot before sneakily removing my arms from around her. On the first night she only woke twice, a minor miracle after the night before.
Last night was tough though, despite falling asleep on her own in the cot she was up again within five minutes. The usual techniques (hair stroking, rocking, whispering) didn't do anything and she would just wake and scream when I put her down. After getting her to sleep for a measly two hours in total in her cot I gave up and put her in bed with me at two am. I'm going to keep trying though!

Keep trying Lucy. We've got reasonable sleep like that recently. I'm trying the next step now. Went well last night.

I wonder how tonight is going to go? I'll bet it's nowhere near as good.