Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

'
If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.'

thats what i do does seem to help

bas is the same tbh. sympathy.

ah we have a Peachy too!

takingit - sympathy for your emotional state. It must be hard, but the BW says give it at least a week and as your DH points out, today was better than yesterday. It will get better I'm sure.

We are still going ok, though she was awake twice tonight before her feed at 10.30. Still, it didn't take long to get her back down.

We are on countdown for 2 weeks time when we are going out for a wedding reception so would really like to be in a position where she will go down easily for a babysitter. Haven't asked anyone yet but need to. DD has only ever been babysat by MIL twice so a bit scary...

I don't have the strength to read this whole thread, haven't slept for weeks...can I join in? My DS is coming up for 6 months and I am up from about 130 most nights about 6 times until he wakes up at 6. I look haggard, feel worse, would love some advice and some company! I feel I am lucky that my LO will go to bed with no probs, just keeping him asleep that's impossible..

Welcome Iwant! You poor thing, that does sound tiring. Weird that you can get DS down without problems, that's an odd one. Well, to sum up the thread. Some of us are doing CC, some of us are doing PUPD, and some are concentrating on naps, as a way of improving night-time sleep. If you don't have time to wade through the thread, let us know if you are interested in any of these strategies and I can sum up what our experiences have been. The good news is that the majority of people on the thread have experienced at least some success since we started, so hopefully you're in the right place!

DD woke up a few more times than usual last night, but when I brought her into bed at 5 her hands were really cold. I am wondering if she was cold and this is what was waking her. Have been following the guide on the bag of the grobag thermometer but she really didn't seem warm. I know babies get cold hands but she really did seem cold. I slept with my arms under the duvet last night which obviously they can't do. It was 20 degrees and she was wearing a vest, a sleepysuit (without feet) and a 1 tog bag. Does this seem ok???

Thanks peachsmuggler! They do sleep much better slightly cool. Definitely difficult to get your head round. My LO's problem (I think) is that he doesn't eat enough during the day so wakes up for food. He's BF with one formula bottle at night (wont take more than 4 oz though, no matter what) and on 2-3 solid meals. Having said that, he also wakes about 4 times just for a quick cuddle/soothe then falls back to sleep straight away. He always falls right back to sleep, that's what's so difficult. If I leave him he wakes himself up properly, cries for up to 45 mins (couldn't do longer I'm afraid) and takes ages to resettle. Think I may be helping him back to sleep for eternity. I have tried PUPD for 8 days but it doesn't seem to work...he just gets soaking wet from sweat and tears and then needs changing.

How old do we think they should be for CC? Would do it if I knew it would be the right thing, but am wimpy!

Peach - I dress dd more warmly than it says on the grobag thing as we did it accidetnally once and she slept better. Am always a little about it. It has been fine though. Last night she wore a vest, long-sleeved T'shirt and a 2.5 bag. Sometimes she even wears trousers! It was about 21 in the room. So I'd say that what your DD was wearing was more fine than this!

Iwant - You could try reading the first third or so. I think that's when a lot of us were working out what we wanted to do and the methods were discussed at length. Or, of course, we could fill you in.

DD doesn't really take much effort to put to sleep. Either I feed her and she falls asleep, or DH rocks her afterwards, or she goes in her got a little bit awake. But it hasn't tkaen longer than 45 minutes recently and usually takes about 20 including the feed.

BUT .... pray silence and then a slowly mounting drumroll....

DD went to sleep at 7.45, grizzled at midnight and took a few minutes to settle slept until 5am yest that's FIVE AM... then was awake for a while and went back to sleep until 8am, yes, I said EIGHT AM!

I think that's a record in this house...

Latrucha - Wow, fantastic, what agreat night!
hmm so difficult to know about clothing. We did something similar last week. She was in quite warm clothing and she slept great but then DP got scared and said we should change her grobag back to a 1 tog at her first waking.

I want - I think 6 months is the minimum age you are supposed to do CC at. If you feel you won't be able to follow it through then I think it is best not to start. One person on this thread had done it and it worked brilliantly but consistency seems to be the key with that one.

My DD only started settling herslef duting the night when we did PUPD btu as you say you have tried this. Wondering if you could try a gradual withdrawel type approach, i.e. reduce the time you cuddle/soothe each time so cuddle at first and soothe in cot then reduce time of cuddling, then just soothe in cot, then try to soothe with just your voice, then maybe he will settl himself. Great in theory and might take a long time, but apparently it works!

I'm a bit sceptical about this settling thing. The theory is that you have to teach them to do it and then they'll sleep. However, I've never really taught DD to do it. I know she can becuase I've heard her do it loads of times. It's just she doesn't want to pretty frequently.

Oh dear. Having read a lot of the thread I am feeling a bit . DS sleeps like a dream 9-945, 1230-230/3ish, 4-445. I suppose I shoould be grateful. I think I may just have to take a brave pil. Do any of the rest of you live in flats with neighbours just the other side of DC?

I think you're right Latrucha, self settling is a developmental milestone that they will get better at as they get bigger. DD does this more frequently since we started PUPD, but I KNOW she wouldn't have done it a couple of months ago.

Iwant - Sounds like you're doing ok! We live in a flat and DD's room is above our neighbour's teenage son's room. She doesn't cry much but when she does I don't feel too bad as he plays his guitar in the evening and his video games late at night, and we don't mind that.

DD seems to have given up naps and she has also only fed a couple of times today. Wonder if this means she will be up all night...

How much sleep is too little sleep during the day??? This is my one obsession at the moment. He's been in his cot for all his sleeps again today - and the PUPD has been fine for the most part. But... he just keeps waking up so soon afterwards. He's only had a total of and hour and a half during the day today, despite having three naps. I am worrying that I'm doing him damage now as he's got red eyes and is less active than usual. LaTrucha and Peach - do you think DS is too young to manage this? (He's 4 months and a week).

Biting my nails to the quick (metaphorically as DH is upstairs dealing with DS's first wake-up of the evening as I type. Feeling huge guilt for putting DS through this. I just wish I felt more confident that it was the right thing to do. Honest thoughts welcome.

takingitasitcomes...I'm no wiser than you, but what I do know is that my LO needs 3 hours a day to sleep at all at night. HOWEVER if he is getting less sleep now in the process of getting things sorted, you can't really beat yourself up. You're doing a fantastic job and he is lucky to have a mummy who cares!

TIAIC - I'm very unsure how true it is, but the books say he needs more - I think about 3-4 hours, though I've lent my book to someone. I know it's 3-4 hours for a 6-month old. And I think it's right to say that if he gets less sleep in the process of trying to teach him to sleep it won't do him any harm.

DD got a 39 degree fever today from teething! What a shock! She only managed a half hour nap today, poor little mite. I think it'll probably be a bad night tonight.

Chairmum - Where are you? Catching up on sleep?

Yes, I think you are both right. DS has been reliably getting between 3 and 4 hours every day up until we started this regime. I hate the difference I can see in him. DH and I have decided to keep it up for 5 days, and if there's no improvement in length of sleep we'll introduce one sling sleep per day so that DS can catch up a bit. I know the BW woman wouldn't approve, but seeing as our problem to start with was one she doesn't exactly cover in her book I figure we may need to tailor her method a little to fit.

So it seems to have been a bad nap day for most of our LOs. Ho hum. I know that there is progress too. When not worrying about the lack of naps, I have to admit that the BW's PUPD technique does work. DS has slept in his cot 14 times in a row. That's more than he'd managed before in his whole (admittedly short) life so far.

(LaTrucha I'm sorry to hear about DD's fever - that's pretty high, she must be feeling rotten.)

Yes Chairmum - where are you???

takingit - I think the books do say 3-4 hour's sleep during the day, but I have also read that it says the overall sleep per day is more important. My DD is napping really badly at the moment (1 hour today) but is sleeping a lot longer at night so she seems ok. Am going to tackle naps sson I think.

I would say if you are worried about the daytime naps then give him a sling nap. I haven't really been doing PUPD during the day but instead co-cleeping or using the pram for naps as I feel I don't have the energy to sort night time and naps out at the same time (as sure most sleep boffins would say sort out at the same time as they are interlinked but hey!)

LaTrucha - Oh dear. Symapthy for your DD and for you. Must be rubbish.

Yes am sure Chairmum is enjoying the fruits of her labour and sleeping, reading books, and eating chocolates!!!

Heh!

I've been doing fun things with my evenings like sewing pictures.codepoets.co.uk/2008_09_12/dscf0831.jpg (the very hungry caterpillar for a childrens centre opening) and I'm making plans to open an online sling hire shop

DS is doing ok. I think we're getting somewhere with our naps - we've been doing them too early (he may have been hungry rather than really tired) hence waking up after a really short nap.

We're consistently getting the 2 wakings I was aiming for, and think we might be able to work towards 1. However, we are getting regular early wakings (sometimes 5.30, often 6 or 6.30) which are annoying! Over the last couple of days though, he's had a later nap, and gone to bed later (7 instead of 6), which we've decided to encourage as it makes life a little easier (we can eat with him if he has his dinner at 5.30 instead of 4.30!)

Basically, I haven't posted because there's not all that much happening here. Although I'm tired some days, we don't feel that sleeping is a huge problem at the moment - I'm starting to go back to work 2 days a week and feeling pretty good about it all!

It is good to see people progressing with other methods though. CIO is still working well for us, and DS is actually getting happy in his cot (will stay there for a while when he wakes, just burbling to himself) and he even sent himself to sleep last night (DH put him down awake!) We actually almost never leave him to cry - if he's hungry, he gets fed, and most other wakings are shouting rather than crying, even at 5.30am (he gets left till 6 unless he's not fed for 3 or so hours - we're not sticking to strict limits at the moment)

The only time really gets left to cry now is if he's messing around before bed, and that's no more than 2-3 minutes as he really is tired and we're just distracting him!

Wow, that was long. I guess some things are happening here

Its nice to see the husbands helping out too!

Wow Chairmum - I love the outfit you've made! He looks desperately cute. You sound like you're gaining control over life again... nice to know it can happen.

We're ploughing on with PUPD here. Both DH and I are still finding it tough, but DS has been in the cot for every sleep still (apart from the co-sleeping after 10pm through to morning). He woke at 5.15am this morning which is troubling as he's not been an early waker before. I know the HSHHC man would say it was due to lack of daytime sleep - and he'd be right. However, DS seems to be getting a few minutes more each day. Slow progress.

Thanks for your thoughts Peach. We'll go to the sling for one sleep a day if DS doesn't get into a habit of slightly longer sleeps by Wednesday afternoon (that'll be a week since we started).

Hope everyone's night is going well.

Morning all...I moved DS's bedtime to 8pm last night and he woke up at 1130(didnt dream feed so my fault) and then he stirred at 3 so i fed him asleep and that was it til 545! I can see! My lids aren't hanging past my chin today! Hope everyone else had a good/better night.

Wow Chairmum that's great. V impressed with your sewing skills, and with your gorgeous DS!

Last 2 nights we've had 2 brief awakenings before the 10.30 feed and also have been unale to get her back in her bed at 3am so she has come in with me. Actually am sure with a bit of perseverence maybe she would have but I was just soooo tired. Feels on nights that, that I am going backwards. However I suspect it is more to do with hopeless napping the last few days. She just doesn't look tired at the times she did before so I watch but don't really see any signs. Tricky business.

Am going to make sure she gets a couple of naps (somehow) the next few days and hopefully things will improve at night!

iwantasecondone - that's great!

We had a good night too. Sleep at around 7 (the later bedtime seems to be working so far), then a single cry at around 9.30, and feeds at 12.45 and 4.45. Up for the day around 6.10 Quite bearable :-)

Also, he was awake for nearly 3 hours before I put him down for his nap, and I'm hoping that will make him sleep longer - we're on 20 minutes already which is all we'd been getting recently!

Morning all, things going ok here. DS slept from 7pm through to 10.10pm without waking - and he only woke then 'cause I managed to stand right on our squeakiest floorboard (doh!). He went back to his usual wake-up of 6.50am this morning which was a relief. He's had one sleep so far today and it only took 10 minutes for him to go off which was good. The nap was only for 36 mins though... so still nowhere near enough. Fingers crossed for the next one.

I had a look in his mouth just now and I can see both his top two and bottom two teeth waiting to come through. Roughly how long does it take from seeing them white but still in the gum to breaking through? So far he doesn't seem grumpy (just exhausted by the sleep regime) so that's good.

takingit - It took DD's bottom teeth only a few days with the bottom teeth, but the top two, which have just come through took a bit more than a week.

Chairmum - your DS has the most beautiful eyes!! (And impressed by your sewing skills.)

Takingit - I first saw the white of DD's bottom teeth about 3 weeks ago and one finally broke through on Sunday. Mostly she's been fine with it, had a few rough days here and there. But I think that might be a record for the longest time for a tooth to turn up!
On your naps - I'd agree that losing some sleep to solve a sleep problem is likely to be worth it, but def go back to one sling sleep if you think it's necessary. We still rock DD to sleep for every nap/bed time which I know is Bad And Wicked, but since she is sleeping in her cot and for longer than ever before I've decided to leave that problem til later.

Feeling a bit tired here as DD decided I was way too presumptious in saying she was sleeping through so has woken up every night since Thursday . It's not too bad though - wake up, feed and back to sleep.

Anyhoooo, off for the chaos of dinner, bath and bed. Good luck for tonight everyone!