Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

Right, ok, and what about where naps are?
We have to go to PiLs on Sunday for dinner, have to be there for 1pm, so will be leaving at nap time, would being asleep in his car seat count as his nap? Or should I ask PiL to put it back an hour?

MissV: HSHHC would tell you to have their nap first. Having stayed home to try and cater to DS's naps, I would say this is the quickest way to insanity. If the distance is roughly equivalent to nap time, I would do normal nap routine then head off, otherwise, maybe have the nap first.

Are you normally just VictorianSqualor?

MissV - I had been giving DD her naps all in the same place and I thought it was well important. But I haven't been able to this week and it hasn't made an ounce of difference. We have a little tiny nap routine and that seems to do the trick (nap routine is - slip into sleeping bag, walk/bounce for two minutes them I lay down with her for a few minutes and feed. Usually takes her no more than 5 mintues to sleep - 10 on a difficulter day).

Yeah, am VS in a different guise.
Well, he has just gone down after a mammoth feed, won't settle though so DP is trying to settle him then leave, hoping as he doesn't associate DP with feeds it may help

stayed at my parents house last night and ds had to spend his first night in a travel cot, so was anticipating a shite night.

He slept 7pm til 5am without a peep

I'm praying this is the start of good things. Now that I know he can go that long I'm not going to feed him back to sleep anymore.

keeping everything crossed for tonight!

Connor - that's great!

However, DS once went 8.5 hours, but normally goes 4-6, and is still actually hungry for those feeds, so I'd be wary of judging length your LO can go from a one-off!

(have posted this on my thread too)

Ok, DP did PUPD with him, he settled, then cried again, I went up and did PUPD, and left the door ajar, with the light on, and he settled much quicker, wonder if he doesn't like the pitch dark?

I had to go up just now and do PUPD and again, he has settled, he was awake when I left him but falling asleep.

Everytime he has cried and needed PUPD he has been upside down or sideways stuck in his cot.

Chairmum - I genuinely believe that DD is hungry too.

She had a horrendous night last night. Something up with her tum, we think. Blessed DH took the worstf it though. He went to bed an hour ago!

She's actually got dark circles under her eyes this morning. Poor mite.

Connor - long may it last,although if ds is anything like dd he was just knackered from the journey. ??

VS - DS has started wriggling round in his cot too - I found him the other night on his front with one arm stuck between the cot bars, and DH has found him on his front several time. Thankfully he has a distinctive cry when he's distressed so we can rush straight to him then without going at every peep!

Wow Connor, that's fantastic, especially in a different environment!

Thanks all for advice on expressing. When DD was smaller, I tried expressing from one side while feeding her on the other, but it just wouldn't work (manual pump). Point aboout different times of day is a good point, as got more yesterday afternoon.

Was all a bit of a moot point (a moot bottle of EBM?) anyway. Fed her at 5 and then went out. DP called at 7.15 saying she was refusing bottle and asking how much had been in the bottle (???) Told him not to worry too much as she had had a feed at 5. She had only had 1oz but went to sleep in 10 mins. She then woke at 8 and he got her back down in 10 mins. When I got home at 10.30 she was still asleep! Woke, feed and back down at 11, 3 and then into bed at 6 till 7.30. Hurrah!

Clearly I should get DP tp put her down every night!!!

VS - Agree with chairmum about naps. Depending on your temperament, staying in for all naps, may just drive you mad. DD gets at least one a day in her pram and it doesn't seem to affect her night sleep. I only wake her up from a nap late in the afternoon at 4.30.

Am I the only one without a snot sucker. I feel quite inadequate without one!!

I have posted this on the other thread but seeing it was this thread that made me do what I did yesterday.......

OMG!!

He slept from about 8:45 (when he was finally settled) to

PEach - there's really good advice here under 'breast pumping' / 'making the most of your pump'. Do you have an electric? If you've not and you're going to express a lot I can highly recommend it. I had both and I loved the electric one. I got this. IT's amazing, fast, efficient and comfortable. Ameda are great with spare parts too.

I hardly ever express, so it's not too much of an issue. However if I am still feeding her when I go back to work and expressing at work I'll need an electric so thanks for the tip!!!

Well done VS!!!

I've got a niggling little question at the back of my mind. How many of us drink lots of caffeine? I drink about a gallon of tea every day. I hope this isn't waht's causing the problem via bm.

I don't drink caffeine at all.
I live off water and squash.

I'm caffeine-free too ('cept for the odd chunk of chocolate most days) so I don't think that's affecting DS.

He's been driving me ever so slightly mad this last few days as he's developed a new trick ofa waking almost precisely 30 minutes after I put him down in the evening. He will not settle for DH for love nor money; so I end up feeding him down again. It only takes a few minutes as he's not actually hungry... grrrrr!

Caffeine from chocolate here, but almost none from drinks etc. Peppermint tea all the way except for the odd cup of earl grey for a treat, and a (very) occasional diet coke!

DS appears to have a cold now, and we got home late after our bus was stuck in the floods! Anyway, he went to bed late (sleep at around 6.30) and was awake again by 7 and its taken us until now to settle him again as I won't leave him when he might be ill. Lets hope its not too bad for the rest of the night as I'm not feeling too great myself

I drink decaff when out and have "proper" coffee in the house at weekends but only one each day.

DP made me lovely dinner last night and we had great evening despite the fact that DD was up twice before midnight (only took a few mins to settle each time) However when she woke at 2.30 we could not get her back down. DP tried first but she was not having it then we thought her teeth might be bothering her as front two are coming through and she was sucking on her arm so put some calgel on them, still no luck. By that time it was 3.30 and time for a feed, after which she was wide awake and doing big smiles so at 4 brought her into bed and slept till 7.

Didn't get round to trying food yesterday. Will do it this afternoon though was going to have carrotts and we have none so will need to go out. Pram has puncture and it is raining. Sigh...

Cold are officially the worst thing for sleep ever!! Poor DD can't breathe, despite me hauling loads of disgusting stuff out her nose with the snot sucker. She can't feed happily - goes puce trying to push air out her nose while bf and then sort of explodes spitting milk and blowing snot everywhere. It's lovely. And she can't fall asleep as she can't suck her dummy or me and she's used to sucking to fall asleep. We were up from 12 to 2am last night and then took her in bed with me. Disturbed night and then awake at 6:15 - although we didn't get out of bed until 7:30.

Peaches - just be glad you haven't needed the snot sucker. This is DD's first cold and I'm not looking forward to too many more!!! And good luck with the carrots .

Friend of mine is moving to Oz and having her farewell party today. It's lunch at a pub and I was really looking forward to it. But DH is away on a bachelor's weekend and I'm not sure about taking DD out in the rain when she's not well. Sigh.

Oh, caffeine - I drink 3/4 cups of tea a day but no coffee. And occasionally little bits of choc. Oh, ok, sometimes big bits too!

And expressing - I had a small operation at end of June and had to leave milk for DD while I was in hospital. I also got very little out when expressing initially, it is rather demoralising. What worked for me was to pump before her first two feeds of the day. I pumped off one breast per feed and I set a max time limit of 10 mins - what came out in 10 mins was it (using electric pump). I really hate expressing and sitting for half an hour feeling like a dairy cow was more than I could stand. Slowly I started to get more out each day and eventually was getting about 5oz per day. When DD was v little I expressed while feeding but not much after 12 weeks as she was too interested in the pump and I felt I was missing out on the enjoyment of bf if I pumped at the same time. I had about 90oz of milk collected over about 6 weeks by the time I went in!

Sorry - this is rather a long post now!

He did it again
Surely it can't be this easy.

Impressed by your 90oz Hadeda! Sorry about your LO's cold. Sounds rotten.

Am tired. Read you 3 to 4 cups of tea a day as three quarters of a cup and thought you were a little strange for a while

Great news VS, long may it continue!

That's fantastic news VS - how old is your DS?

DH has almost finished reading all the books I've demanded asked him to (NCSS,HSHHC and BW) so we're finally about to have a decent conversation tonight about what route to follow. I want to be really sure that we're both up for it so that we only mess around with DS's sleeps once rather than chopping and changing styles on him. Trouble is I'm still spending hours trying to decide whether I'm ready to stop co-sleeping yet. What's everyone else doing on that front when trying new sleep regimes?

Well, ok. My caffeine theory doesn't seem to hold any water. I'm relieved because I like my tea.

Peach - DD is going through a patch of having a wakeful period in the middle of the night. It's not hunger but she is teething so could be that.

Chairmum and Hadeda - sorry about colds. DD has a little cough here and I'm really hoping it doesn't develop.

VS - Fabulous. Hope it continues. So, was all you changed the naps.

Takingit - DD usually goes in her cot until after second feed, about 4am. After that, she's too wakeful to stay in her cot and sleeps better if she comes in with me. Not usre it's a good thing in the long run though.

Things pretty much business as usual here, although her first sleep seems to be stretching to 5-6 hours which is good. She has a wakeful patch after that. I'm wondering what my next steps will be. I think she's one day just going to go through. But if it's not by the end of OCtober, I may think up a new plan.

takingit - I am co-cleeping if she wakes any time after 6am for the rest of the time she is asleep and also in times of trouble! ha ha. Like last night, we co-slept from 4am.

I was worried initially that it was going to give her mixed messages about where she sleeps and what happens when she wakes during the night. BW goes on about consistency, in doing PUPD for all wakenings and naps but I'm not doing it. Maybe if you don't co-sleep the results will be more dramatic, but you could always put a time on when you will bring DS into the bed, e.g. 2am.

Am well impressed with your DH. DP has not managed to read the ONE chapter I asked him to 4 weeks ago!!!

takingit - I am co-cleeping if she wakes any time after 6am for the rest of the time she is asleep and also in times of trouble! ha ha. Like last night, we co-slept from 4am.

I was worried initially that it was going to give her mixed messages about where she sleeps and what happens when she wakes during the night. BW goes on about consistency, in doing PUPD for all wakenings and naps but I'm not doing it. Maybe if you don't co-sleep the results will be more dramatic, but you could always put a time on when you will bring DS into the bed, e.g. 2am.

Am well impressed with your DH. DP has not managed to read the ONE chapter I asked him to 4 weeks ago!!!