Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

Quick update while DD has nap in cot!!! Took 20 mins of PUPD and she has been asleep for 25 mins!!! If she wakes up now I will just keep her up as we are going out soon and she can sleep in pram.

Chairmum - sounds like things are going well. Excellent! Interesting about the different parts of the brain for nightsleep and naps. I must have dozed off during that part of the book Good to know though as sometimes life seems to short to be wrestling over naps, though I'm sure Dr Whatsisname would disagree!

Quick question for everyone - Have got DP on board with the PUPD thing in theory but I did it all last night and then this morning. I shoudl really make him do it tonight, but have a feeling it might take him a lot longer as he is less experienced at getting her to sleep (obviously as she had been bf to sleep pretty much from day 1). Should I let him do it or just do it myself as am convinced it will take me less time (control freak I know!)

peachsmuggler - although clearly I can't talk as my DH won't do it at all (strange as he is a very involved daddy in all other ways) I would say (unless you're working) get him to do it tonight to "get used to it" then on other nights assign him a few hours that are his - say the time between when your LO is asleep and midnight or maybe after 5am - that he can work some decent sleep around, and you do the rest, with him doing more at weekends.

Good going with the nap!

Sounds great Peach. My DH has just waded in and he's quicker at it than me. He's even offered to do all the putting to sleep. Like you with missing DC last night, I feel a bit sad about that. Aren't we silly?

So, DH put DD to sleep last night after bath and bf in about 7 minutes. He said he just plonked her down after a few minutes and left. She went to sleep until 2am then woke up at 6 (after going back in cot after bf). So a successful night. I should be so grateful but I still want more. Am SURE to be punished with a terrible night to night. Am going out first so DH going to try the whole thing by himself. Not the bf obviously, and am bit dubious as she doesn't take from the bottle but we'll see!

Sounds like a great night LaTrucha.

Chairmum - you are right. Will let him have a go tonight, as you say, he needs to learn how to do it. Also, means I can watch X Factor! ha ha!

That nap lasted 90 minutes this morning!!! Absolutely unheard of, unless on my lap. She has ahd another 40 mins of so this afternoon in the pram but that will have to do as too near bedtime. Might go for a slightly earlier one tonight.

Peach - probably a bit late, but IMO I'd def get your DH involved. It might take a bit longer the first few times but I find that it's a) a great help and wonderful to be able to hand over responsibility for something and b) DD sometimes settles better for him (perhaps because he doesn't smell like milk? perhaps because she can feel me getting impatient in the evenings when I've done all the day time work too?). My DH has also says he likes doing something entirely on his own, because when we're both with her he always checks with me (e.g. asks "shall I change her nappy" rather than just doing it - even though I wouldn't be bothered if he just did it).
And good to hear your napping was so good!

LaTrucha - sounds like you had a great night. We had a similar night last night - DH put her to sleep around 7, she fed at 2am and then woke up at 6:15. I know how you feel though, you know it's miles better than it was and you should just be happy about that but dammit you want a whole night's sleep!!

We had a pretty good night too. Down at 6, cried at 9.30 but not long enough for me to have even decided whether to go and feed! Had feeds at 10.30 and 4.30 and a nappy change for the latter, and went through till 7.20 when he woke DH!

Yay! (this is what we were aiming for!)

Well, if there was any sleeping going on in our house last night, it wasn't me or dd. She decided to try and learn to crawl at 2am this morning. I'm not joking. She was awake and playing, smiling laughing crying all at the same time. We got about 30 minutes' sleep at 5am but were up at 6.

I don't know of it's teething, development, consitpation or all three but she's still going strong after only a 40minute nap.

Off to nap myself while DH takes charge.

p.s. well done chairmum and peach!
Hi Hadeda!

bit more tricky last night, but still going ok. Was able to put her straight down at 7 with a little singing and patting but she woke 45 mins later. DP went through but after 40 mins had not managed tp put her down once as she hadn't stopped crying. Ended up doing it instead and took another hour of PUPD so asleep at 9.20.

Woke, feed and back down at 11.40. She then woke at 1.40 and was so tired I fed her and she went back down. Was quite annoyed with myself that I hadn't waited 3 hours between feeds and sure enough she woke again at 3.20. PUPD till 4.40 then another feed and took a while to settle, till about 6 I think. Woke at 7 and fed her but she wouldn't settle so brought her into bed (wrong wrong wrong) till 8. DP then got up with her and I slept for 2 hours. Bliss.

Took 20 mins to settle her for nap at 10.45 and she slept for 45 mins.

Am sure have read that with PUPD that the 2nd night can seem like a step backwards, or is that just wishful thinking!!! Anyway feeling prety good about it as it does seem to work. Not sure what to do about DP. Will play it by ear I think!!

I think so PEach. Stick with it. And DH. It'll be great if you can both do it.

Hi, I've just found this thread and although its reassuring to know that your babies don't sleep I'm wondering what to do and if things will ever get any better.
My ds is 6.5 mths and has always been terrible sleeper. I started him on solids about four weeks ago and he is not interested at all. Brought Dr Marc Weisbluth book but don't like it cos its all CIO, my ds sleeps pretty much at those nap times in the day without much fuss after bf to sleep but at night won't sleep at all even when we co-sleep, just wants to be permanently latched on.

It seems he is genuinly hungry as he doesn't hardly eat a thing in the day so PUPD seems to be as cruel as CIO and also he doesn't stop crying even when I am holding him, he won't stop unless I bf him.

For last 2 nights he has been wide awake from midnight til 4.30 and waking every 20 mins before that.

Help

Zwiggy - I have nights when she wants to be permanently latched on. It's often when she's teething or constipated or both.

Has DP, if you have one, tried to put DS down once he's been bf - to sleep or otherwise. DH is now much more effective at this as there's no milk to smell!

Did you notice my modification of PUPD - basically feeding them to sleep or almost sleep, putting them down and getting them back to the same state with feeding or rocking before trying again. It's worked for us pretty well, might be worth a whirl.

thanks Latrucha, Dh did try soothing but he was doing it for two hours and ds just cried. DH works nights mainly so that was a one off.
Have been trying to do these nap times right, but if you keep trying to get the baby to nap and then it gets to the next nap time do you keep going until they sleep even if its more than 2/3 hours?

Should I sort out the sleeping to improve the feeding? Or sort out the feeding to improve the sleeping?

I don't feel I'm making enough milk for him any more, he is sick on formula - I'm thinking lactose intolerant.

zwiggy - I would imagine if you haven't topped him up with formula before, you will be making enough milk for him - my guess is that if he's not normally like this, its a growth spurt. My DS only recently stopped the not eating in the day and making it up at night thing. I don't know if it was what we were doing or if he was just ready. I only felt confident leaving him to CIO when I knew he'd had plenty of milk.

I know (from experience) that its hard, but have you tried getting your DS to take more milk in the day?

If I know DS has fed less than normal in the day, I always relax my toughness about time between feeds at night. (Tonight he's going to be attended to as soon as he does more than a couple of cries as we think he's teething)

Good luck all for tonight!

I think it would depend on the time of day and the baby's bedtime. I think you need enough time to let the baby become tired before bed, obviously.

DOn't try and force them with feeding. IT doesn'e make a radical difference. I treid it and it has just made feeding more difficult.

Are you going to get a lactose test? I don't see why you wouldn't be making enough milk if you're givign 4-5 good feeds a day.

Chairmum - he has allergic reaction to formula

I don't feel I am making enough milk cos I have lost loads of weight, breast size has become v small, he seems constantly unsatisfied. (I eat quite well by the way and have not activley been trying to lose any weight)

He has been like this since 4 months. before that he used to wake about every 3 hours.

Latrucha - been referred to a dietician but not sure how long that is going to take

Hi everyone. I got my book yesterday and managed to get through most of it by last night. Success with naps today, even though I had to feed dd to sleep both times, but has made no difference with night time. I know it's the first day but it's driving me crazy!

She fell asleep on the boob (twice) but when I put her in her cot she woke up and started having a tantrum. Tried a bit of pupd and could tell she was really tired but kept fighting it to scream in her cot. Tried leaving her to cry for a little but she just got worse and worse

Chairmum - when you left you LO to cry it out was he crying or SCREAMING? Maybe I'm rushing in there too soon and she would give up and sleep if I left her a little longer but the SCREAMING makes me feel so guilty. I just wondered if when people talk about cc they mean their baby's just kind of shouting rather than choking themselves dry?

DS only really screams when there's something actually wrong like teeth hurting. Normally he just cries. I guess I'd compare what your LO is doing to what they normally do.

If I leave him while we're in the room he sort of screams - but its what we recognise as his angry cry - "PARENTS, I KNOW YOU'RE HERE, COME AND PICK ME UP NOW!!!!" sort of thing

He's never cried for more than 45 minutes though, and never made himself sick, so I think that helped me to stick with it (although its been hard at times)

We had a good night last night, despite the threat of teething. Grumbled a few times (a single cry or about 30 seconds of crying) before around 9, but then nothing till 12.30 feed, then another at around 4.15 and when we woke at about 10 to 7 he was awake playing in his cot!! Bliss! If he keeps doing that I'll feel safe to go to sleep before 10.30!

DD is back to the behaviour she had at the beginning of this threas. Maybe it's the same again (teeth) but essentially she has only slept one night out of the last 4. She just plays and plays until she gets fed up then cries, feeds a bit gets a bit sleepy, maybe sleeps for 40 minutes and then it all starts again. She's really well otherwise but it can't be good for her.

Glad for good nights Chairmum. Thanks for starting this thread all that time ago!

I've been a bit quiet for the last few days 'cause I've put all sleep training on hold while I madly read some books. Have read HSHHC cover-to-cover now and am partway through the Baby Whisperer's problem solving book. I have mixed feelings about both really so am interested in any other books people have found useful (yes - I realise I am now clutching at straws for some magical 'cure'). Like Lucypearl I've got a real SCREAMER when he's in his cot so I dread going down the full HSHHC route. But then, the softer solutions just make him cry too... so I'm kinda stuck. Complicated by the fact I can't make up my mind about when I want to stop co-sleeping. I'm pretty sure I'm disturbing his sleep as much as he does mine now, as he sleeps for much longer when we put him for his first sleep of the evening on his own than he does once DH and I get into bed too.

Whatever I choose to do at the end of this week (my personal time limit) I will try and stick to it for at least 10 days as all the books do seem to agree that consistency is the key. In fact, I'm starting to think it doesn't really matter which route you take as long as you do exactly the same thing over and over until the baby 'gets' it.

Hey ho, never mind. He does get enough sleep over a 24 hour period, so I'm not really in too bad a situation. I would really just like to be able to put him in his cot for sleeps now.

Sorry for the rambling post. I hope things get better soon for us all.

I like the No-Cry Sleep Solution. It's very gradual but I prefer the approach. It's not prescriptive and you can pick and choose from her suggestions depending on your situation and feelings.

Oh we are so in the same mess TIAIC! I've just received the Baby Whisperer and even got a Gina Ford too. Planning to read them all and then hopefully devise a plan from there but at the moment inconsistency is my main problem.

Really confused as I try to put dd down at 7pm but never succeed until 9pm at the earliest which would suggest to me I'm trying to put her down too early but HSHHB indicates that I could be putting her down too late...find it hard to believe she would go to sleep at say 6pm though...argh.

Also can't help myself from keeping dd in bed at night after feeds which is maybe silly as, unlike bedtime, she seems to go back in her cot ok throughout the night but despite my bad back I really love the cuddles! Think I am the definition of "accidental parenting".

Let me know what you decide to do.

PS Chairmum you do give me hope!

LucyPearl - If you look at the NCSS (sorry!)
she gives you tables to fill in which really helped me when I was totally confused. She has one for 'now' which helps you work out how much sleep DC is getting, when and how long all the various steps take. SHe has another for your plan, quite detailed and including 'plan B', so to speak. The final one you do after each ten days which plots again how long your child sleeps, where, how long it took them to get to sleep etc. I did it a lot at first and it really helped me

a) know what to do if things went worng so 'keeping her in bed' is actually a sensible option rather than something you gave in to. (although I would be tempted to try and get her back in I do sometimes fall asleep!)

b) See improvements

c) revise your plan after 10 days if what you're doing is not working.

Try the 6pm thing, why not? However, when we tried it she went ballistic until midnight, so have a plan B, C etc lined up!

Nothing wrong with accidentla parenting as long as it's working for you IMO.

Thanks LaTrucha. That sounds like a good way to keep track of your progress, and I like that there's a set time limit before you try another approach. Ok better get back on Amazon and order that book too! We should be getting commission for promoting all these books

I couldn't help but be nosey and look at your pics - your LO is gorgeous, hard to believe such a smiley thing could be such a wee minx at night huh (just like mine).

Yeah, I like some of the Baby Whisperer stuff (such as respecting your baby and treating them as an individual) but I really don't agree with the whole "accidental parenting" thing. I think really, it is just first time parenting. You find things out on your own and learn from them. Yes the sleepless nights are difficult, but I do think a massive part of being a parent is getting to know your DC and coming to some sort of shared existence with them that suits you all. I think we, on this thread, are all doing pretty well actually. Sure, we could have stuck our DCs on a strict routine from the start and maybe we wouldn't be in the position we are in now, but where would be the fun in that?

Another tricky night for us but feeling more confident with the process of PUPD. Think we were up 4 times and each time took about 30-45 mins to get back to sleep.

LaTrucha - am also doing your modified version. She is almost asleep when I put her back down, thoguh she always wakes up so at least when she falls asleep properly she is in the cot. Was feeling a dit despondent during night, but realise it has only been 3 days. Will leave the despondency for another week . Last 2 nights have brought dd into bed at 7ish as still exhausted and not in any mood to PUPD. Hope this doesn't ruin the PUPD as I am not being consistent enough, but has been so lovely to have those early morning cuddles.

DD is lying here on the couch next to me, sqealing and chatting after 30 mins gurgling in cot but then seemed too awake for PUPD. Will try again in 10 mins I think.

Lucypearl - Yes NCSS is great. She has a really nice approac and attitude and makes you feel like you are not going mad!

Hi

Mind if I join you, DS2 is 6months and over the last month his sleep has just got worse and worse. I have always fed to sleep and semi co slept but we put him in his own room a couple of months ago and he was doing brilliantly going from about 7pm til 2am and the til 4am and then til 6am which was tolerable.

Now he's all over the place, waking an hour after he's put down then at 10pm, then at 1am and then at 3am and generally not sleeping unless he's on my breast.

I've skimmed this thread and am I right in thinking that most of you are trying the healthy sleep habits, healthy baby book?

I need to do something I'm at the end of my rope and at a loss. DS1 was such a good sleeper and was doing 7 til 7 at this point.