Co-sleepers - help me with my constantly waking 6 month old please! (LONG POST!)

[ChairmumMiaow]

DS is 6 months old today, and we've been co-sleeping in various ways since he was about 3 months and grew out of his moses basket.

Before he came out of the basket, he was (briefly) sleeping pretty well (IMO) waking 1-2 times a night, and I was feeling good. When we took him out because it was too small, he started waking more often. I presumed this was a combination of the change of sleeping environment and the hot spell we were having at the same time. I thought it would get better!

Since then, its just got worse - he's waking more and more, so I have him in bed with me more and more, and now I'm losing my confidence in what I'm doing. It feels like he won't sleep for long without my nipple in his mouth (although I know its not actually as bad as that). He wakes every 1-2 hours, but seems to only sleep for more than an hour in our bed - he used to do about 3 hours in his cot to start with then wake frequently after that, but now we're lucky if we get an hour at the start of the evening (he normally goes to sleep between 8 and 9pm and just feeds then plays if we do bath earlier)

Some days I feel ok - if he just wakes to get latched on I barely wake up, but after weeks of doing this, I'm getting aches and pains in my back and arms. I normally lay him in the crook of my arm to feed, so when I go to sleep I get a dead arm after a while which wakes me up. Sometimes I can then roll him over onto his back, and he sleeps for a while longer, but other times he wakes up, which wakes me up more, and we have to get comfortable again...

If I try to feed him without being in my arm, I have to roll a bit further onto my side (but not completely over as that seems not to work) which gives me backache as my bac is twisted slightly. I've thought of supporting my back with a long cushion, but thought that it would just wake me up more to get it in place.

If I try to put him back in his bedside cot after every feed, I just wake up shattered. If I try to get him back to sleep by patting etc, he just works himself up into full crying, which I can't stand! Same thing happens when DH tries - as he does when he hears me and DS getting worked up!

I've had people suggesting that I'm waking him up myself, and that he might sleep better in his own room, and as each night I just get that little bit more tired, I'm starting to doubt the route I've chosen and wonder if I make DS sleep as he does! (but I really don't want him in another room just yet)

He doesn't feed as much as he used to in the day, and is not yet eating much solids (he started BLW very slowly about 3 weeks ago) so I know that he needs to catch up at night to a certain extent, but it feels like he's snacking a lot...

So I'm wondering if I can -

a) improve my sleep-feeding technique - any hints?
b) use some other non-crying technique to get him back to sleep
c) try a dummy (I don't particularly like them, but don't hate them...)
d) do something else...

If I can get more comfortable feeding him in bed, I'll be happy, as when I'm not knackered, I don't worry about getting him into bad habits, and DH and I have agreed we're happy to have him in our bed for some time. When I'm tired though, I feel like I'm doing everything wrong!

Hello everyone - I know I am a very late starter on this thread. But I only found it the day before yesterday (it's taken me that long to read it all!) and I feel like I have lived all your stories with you and it's given me the extra little bit of encouragement that I need to start trying to get my own ds in a bit more of a user-friendly sleep pattern too. He sounds just like all the other LOs on here, and it is really great to know that DH and I are not the only ones in this position. We love co-sleeping, but don't want it to become a chore through the 'snacking' wake-ups during the night and his refusal to sleep anywhere but a sling during the day. DS is just coming up to 4 months old. I'm going to start trying the PUPD method for daytime naps tomorrow and see how it goes.

Thank you soooo much to those of you who have posted regular updates on here of how you are getting on. I can't tell you how good it has been for me to read them. Good luck to all of us for a peaceful night tonight.
TIAIC

Shomes - when's the cot coming? I'd be tempted to give DH a good kick over to the other side of the bed

Hadeda - that sounds fab. although it's so much harder when you've had some sleep. DD once did about three weeks on 10-5 and when she stopped I felt worse than ever. Maybe she just had wind or a tummy upset? I know people who swear sleep depends on digestion.

takingit - fab name. sums up my attitude to life atm (or at least I try). Let us know how it goes. Glad you've found it useful.

chairmum - happy camping! a friend of mine's dd slept her first 'all the way through' while at a festival!

Shocking night last night. Sabela had wind. I'm not sure what would have given it to her as she had nothing new recently. If she hadn't done a big bloww off every time she woke I think I would have gone mad. Instead I felt sorry for her. I actually thanked God for farting noises!

La trucha cot has arrived!!!! Wohoo actually had bed to myself for about 3 hours ( in my reckoning) then he sort of wormed his way over back with me! Anyway it will be disrupted this weekend as he's getting baptised and we are staying over with family so "routine" will be shot to pieces!

Had terrible day with sleeping today , he slept for 1hr 10 mins this morning then only45 mins in the afternoon and ten minutes at 5:30, currently he is still awake 20:37 and dh is upstairs and i am having some wine!

May go mad if he doesn't sleep soon!!!

Tried PUPD for three hours today and then gave up as ds was looking completely exhausted but hadn't closed his eyes for more than a millisecond since the first time I put him down and his eyes popped wide open. He practically leapt into the sling when he saw me putting it on, poor puppy. However, I'm not feeling too down about it as I think it was worth a try.

Any suggestions for my next move? I am not going to let him cry it out (he's only 4 months and I can't bear it anyway). It's just daytime naps we have a problem with - he's getting too heavy for me to carry in the sling three times a day which is what I am having to do now.

Any advice/ideas would be really welcome. (have read no-cry-sleep solution, but it doesn't really offer ideas for daytime nap problems).
TIAIC

Hi, just found this thread and have been reading through it on and off all day - so interesting because I have many of the same things going on. My dd will not go down without feeding AND rocking and wakes and cries as soon as she's put down in her cot. I can sometimes go back to her over a dozen times. My record was 5 hours of putting her down, I couldn't even cry I was so tired. My back is also aching from all the rocking and the co-sleeping night feeds (curling myself round her so she can feed but wont wriggle down under the covers).

I had no idea that daytime napping had so much effect on nightime sleeping and my dd only has small irratic naps which could explain a few things. I have just order HSHHB and am going to give it a whirl.

Can I ask Chairmummiaow - the last 2 nights I have also let my LO cry herself to sleep while I sat beside her as couldn't face rocking her to sleep just for her to wake up again any more. I felt ok to do that because I KNEW she was tired and that was probably why she was crying. However, for the daytime naps, how do you get your ds to sleep? I know my LO will cry when put in her cot even for daytime naps and think I'll feel guilty about her crying it out just for a nap but can't face any more rocking (exhausted!!).

Lucypearl - you are looking for the same Holy Grail as me. I just read your post, nodding and nodding... the back-ache is a killer. Let's hope someone is able to suggest a few ideas to try. (My ds differs from your dd insofar as he has plenty of daytime naps, but will only do so in a sling. Hence my breaking back/hips/knees as he's quite a heavy boy).

It does help a bit to know we're not alone with these problems.
Best of luck,
TIAIC

God yes TIAIC. None of my antenatal class friends seem to be having the bedtime dramas I do, so it's reassuring to read that other people have the same issues.

Have just put my LO down for a nap by feeding her lying down and then not even daring to lift her for a burp in case she wakes, which I feel slightly guilty about, like I'm not fullfilling a vital part of basic parenting but...she's still asleep so...

ALl those finding PUPD not working. I do a cheat's modified version of this which I find much more effective. I think in the 'proper' version of this you put the baby down as soon as dc stops crying. I keep them in my arms for a minute or two longer and they are asleep or nearly asleep. The classic version of PUPD drove dd insane. This one works. I hope to move on from it but I had the same experience as a lot of you when I put her down straight away.

Shomes - hooray for cot. Having hte bed to yiurself even for a little while is lovely! DD has got used to being in hers for longer and longer. I too had weird naps yesterday - she had her two-hour nap in the morning and her short nap in the afternoon. I treid to persuade her otherwise but nothing doing. I was right and she was wrong!

HI taking it and Lucypearl!

Hello ladies. Back from the ILs and good to see some new people here. Hello all!

Lucypearl - I never wind my DD when we lie down and feed to sleep and have never found it to be a problem so don't worry.

takingitasitcomes - Do you think it is the movement or the closeness to you that your DC loves when in the sling. Just wondered if you had thought about a swinging hammock???

Sounds like everyone else is having a hard time at the moment. Think of the lists we made about what had improved, to help you keep going.

Chairmum - I know what you mean about your DP. Like yours, mine is very good, but sometimes just wants an easy life, which involves me feeding DD back to sleep. Think we just need to keep working on them. Like we don't have enough to do getting our DCs to sleep!!!

Well, we are going to start the great PUPD experiment tonight. She is 6 months old next week and I feel she is ready to do it. We will do this for each waking, but feed every 3 hours initially. Am feeling quite good about it but a bit worried I will crumble during the night and just bring her in the bed. Any tips on not losing it during the wee small hours???

wish me luck!!!

Peach - someone once said to me, to keep you determined, 'imagine they are asking for chocolate pudding to go to sleep.' It doesn't quite apply to your plan but I've used it a few times. Lots of luck. Very curious to know how you get on.

ha ha! That's a good one, though I fear if I kept telling myself that I would be likely to ditch the whole thing in favour of a trip to the all night garage for chocolate pudding!!!

On top of everything, I'm sure I can see two little white pearls in her top gums so looks like her teeth are coming in. However, will not worry about it as her previous 3 teeth don't seem to have bothered her coming in.

LOL Peach!

Just wondering, are any of you considering weaning your LOs?

I get confused. Is weaning starting solids, or stopping bf? DD is 6 months old next week so thinking or trying some solids the weekend after that. Going to do BLW. Going to continue bf till I go back to work (when DD will be 11months) at least, but may continue in evenings after that.

I meant stopping bf. I need to stop sometime between now and the end of the year. I'm torn between wanting to and dreading it. AND I have no IDEA how I'll get DD to sleep if I do!

Why do you need to stop if you don't mind me asking? Lots of people say when they stop, their DCs get to sleep no problem, so try not to worry, I'm sure she will be fine if she knows it's not an option. Anyway, by then she will be sleeping 7-7 without bf to sleep as a result of advice from our excellent thread

Gosh - 3 hours till we start PUPD. DD currently asleep on my lap and has been so for almost 2 hours. Ahhhhhhh

It's complicated so I'll put it in bullets!

• want another dc and timing is crucial

• I'm pn the pill because of c-sec (needs to be a year before conception, more or less)so don't know if periods have returned.

• I got a sickness that had me bed-bound for 7 months of last pregnancy si if I'm pg will need help with dd.

• bothe our families are 100s of miles away BUT we have a chance to live with in-laws early next year for 6-9 months which means another pg is possible.

• I know some people conceive while bf but because of these reasons, we want as much chance as possible.

Have you got a time limit on tonight, or are you just going for it?

Goodness, that does sound complicated. Best of luck with whatever you decide to do!!!

No time limit no. I think if we are going to do it then we need to see it through. BW site says you need to commit to a week, but hoping to see some sort of improvement by end of weekend as will pretty much be on own during night when DP goes to work

LaTrucha thank you for modified pupd idea. I think I will gst DH to help me try it this weekend (I'm sure he will be thrilled!)

Peachsmuggler My sister has offered us her swing/hammock but I haven't chased her up on it. Thanks for the suggestion... I will phone her tonight. Good luck tonight - if it's any comfort, I didn't find my 3 hour stint of pupd yesterday at all stressful (as you can comfort lo when he gets upset) but just tiring. I think a time limit might be a good idea so that you don't feel like a failure or 'weak' when you stop at 3am! But I really hope it works much faster than that for you!

I had a good chat with DH about sleep last night, and he reminded me that we have made progress in the last 3 weeks as we have managed to get ds to sleep on his own from 7.30 until we go to bed ouselves. Before that I had to go to bed when ds got tired (ok- an occasional early night is bliss; never seeing the sun go down in three months is an odd sort of hell).

Fingers crossed for peaceful evenings all round. TIAIC

Good god, do you mean it might take till 3am? 8 hours of PUPD???? Hadn't even thought about that. V unlikely that we will still be going by then as arms will have fallen off. Hmm think it is best I play it by ear. Am hoping to keep going till it works but will also pay attention to DD. If I think it really isn't happening I will stop.

Sounds very sensible Peachsmuggler - I really don't imagine it will take that long and should have said I was exaggerating! I was typing with my left hand at the time (dear son's head was falling off to the right while in his sling). I tried pupd for daytime sleep with ds which I think is tougher for him as he is not as sleepy during daylight hours anyway as he is at night. I suspect it would work at night relatively quickly. Hmmm... will have to talk that one over with DH. Writing it has made me wonder if we are starting at the wrong end so to speak. Perhaps if we used pupd at night with him (instead of feeding him to sleep as I currently do) he might then get the idea more quickly during the day? What do you think? It would only be for his first sleep as we are not ready to stop co-sleeping yet.

We're back!

We ended up staying an extra night because we were having fun (DS did a 3-4 hour sleep followed by 2-hourly wakeups then up at 5.30 when the sun came up both nights so not so bad, especially as he fed to sleep pretty quickly)

However today he's clearly forgotten that we go to bed at 6pm and stay asleep as he's currently crying in his cot and has been for about 15 minutes. We did check on him once as he had been hot before and this always makes things worse, plus DH has just gone back up as he told me he hadn't actually changed DS to a short sleeved vest when he was still hot as he "thought DS was just in the process of cooling down"

Glad to see we've got some more people, and that our regulars seem to have a good dose of optimism.

For daytime naps, I tried to let him cry one day, but the first time I forgot to change his nappy before the nap and he was wet, so felt horribly guilty for leaving him, then later I just couldn't be positive that I'd got the timing right and he was really tired. Now I only leave him to cry at night, or if he's woken as I've put him down in the day (then only for a few minutes - if he won't stay asleep in the day we try some more BF or give up and try again later!)

DS is BLWd and it hasn't made any difference to his sleep. HSHHC says that food and sleep aren't connected, and I've not met anyone that had a drastic improvement in sleep on weaning, even with puree. (BLW babies tend to start very slow - a bit of brocolli isn't very filling )

I think we're in for a tough night here, so wish me luck!

Well, we have made it through night 1 in one piece! Yayyy.

BF at 6.45 and put down in cot at 7pm. DD started crying instantly. Started PUPD. After about 90 mins I wondered if I was not leaving her in her cot long enough between pick ups, i.e. not giving her enough time to fall asleep, so left her there, put her dummy in and patted her. She didn't settle so I picked her up again but next time when I put her in she sort of held my hand and I sang to her and patted her. She fell asleep. This was at 8.40 Stayed by the cot for 20 mins just to check she was really asleep. Had decided that I would feed every 3 hours if she was awake. She didn't wake up till 12.40!!! Fed her, burped her and laid her in cot. Asleep straight away!!! She then woke at 3.20. Did PUPD for 20 mins and then fed her. Back in cot and again, asleep straight away! (4am) She then woke up at 7. I was thinking we would just get up as wasn't going to start PUPD at 7am so I fed her but she fell asleep so I put her in her cot and she slept till 8!!

Wow. I didn't get masses of sleep as hadn't gone to bed till 12.30, fully expecting her to have been awake before that but am so impressed!!! I was wondering if when I put her down after her feed whether she shouldn't have been properly awake, but it was sooo different from the usual. I would normally have to bf her till asleep then wait at least 10 mins, then very gingerly lift her into cot and then rock for a while with my hand and more than half the time she would wake up. I literally just plonked her in the cot and she fell asleep.

The other great thing is that I heard her awake a few times during the night but she just put herself back to sleep.

Am going to continue with naps today (if we are in that is, I don't mind her sleeping in her pram for some naps) which might be trickier. Have also heard lots of people who have a good night to start and then run into problems, but on the basis of last night, will definitely keep going. It was great!!!

Was quite sad though as not used to being apart from her, and about midnight I really missed her and was dying for a cuddle. Never happy eh?

Takingitasitcomes - The BW site says to be consistent, i.e. use PUPD for all wakings and for naps too so as not to confuse your DC, but really I think you should do whatever works for you. Will let you know how the naps go today

peachsmuggler: well done, sounds like you're doing great. You do get used to being apart from the LO and I am slowly learning to sleep better without those lovely hormones on a regular basis.

WRT naps, HSHHC says that they seem to deal with naps and bedtime sleep with different parts of the brain - so you can do one thing with naps, and one thing with bedtime. It seems to work ok for us (I never leave him to cry for naps after a bit of initial testing!)

We had a bit of crying last night for around 45 minutes in total when I was posting last night, then about 2 minutes at 9.30, but he went through till midnight before his next feed and then till 4. The lovely thing was that he then slept till 7.20!!!

Hope everyone else had a good night

By the way, DS who has been watching avidly from his daddy's lap as I typed my post says: c xxsgf vws6ytg5trgcrctttgxgxssdxc wEFR3WS
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