Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

Could your mum sit in the room with you while you co-sleep for a few hours? That would take the worst of the edge off and you can co-sleep alone afterwards.

Why do you keep only giving 70ml

are you using the ready made small bottles?

make 120ml or give 3/4 bottles if only have the small ready made

baby does sound hungry

Yes, the ready-made small bottles. We ended up giving him just over one and a half so he got about 120ml.

Def let him feed till he’s content - he won’t over feed and you may find he will settle much better

fab. That sounds better and has taken more what I would expect and what I have kept suggesting you feed him - 120mls is 4oz

when I said 3/4 bottles I obv didn’t mean In one feed (as they would 210/280ml)

but over the next 2 feeds or so

taking 1.5 ready made bottle is fab so well done. They can get costly so can buy powdered formula which is the cheaper option tho obv then have to make up

or buy the bigger ready made bottles which I think are 200ml - once opened you can put the remainder in the fridge for the next feed - tho maybe if using from fridge warm it slightly

tho some babies really don’t care and I’ve had countless feed quite happily from fridge whether expressed milk or ready made formula an take it happily cold

but some prefer warmer milk

My child was given a dummy in nicu so it’s definitely not cruel. It was actually encouraged. My other non nicu kiddos had them from about a week old and it helped massively xx

The constant feeding does sound like he needs help with latching, he may be sucking, but not effectively drinking. At 3 weeks his stomach is still only small, so 70ml of formula shouldn’t leave him still starving, but as long as you are paced feeding so that he’s actively drinking then it’s ok to try him with slightly more.

Aside from telling you off for ‘starving’ him, has your mum taken him for a cuddle so you can get some rest? I know she’s obviously concerned and is trying to help, but she’s not providing any practical support, which is what you need right now. If he’s had a decent feed he will sleep on anyone, even if he stirs when you pass him over, a bit of patting shushing and jiggling will normally send them off if their tummy is full.

I hope you can go to the breastfeeding group tomorrow, getting a feed observed will be really helpful for you.

It’s true that if you are extremely exhausted it’s not advisable to cosleep, but you still need some help to actually get some sleep. You desperately need some practical support and you’re just not getting it.

https://ibconline.ca/breastfeeding-videos-english/

Babies can overfeed from a bottle, unless you are paced feeding. If baby is laid back and the bottle it tipped up baby can’t pause and stop when they’ve had enough because the milk still flows out the bottle even if they aren’t sucking. (Hold a bottle upside down, you’ll see the milk drips out, this means baby has to continue to swallow even if they’ve had enough) If you are paced feeding you can observe the sucks and pauses, and will know when baby has had enough.

(powdered formula is not sterile, and ready made is, for top-ups its better to buy the ready made as you may not use a whole tub of powdered formula)

Hi OP. You’re sacrificing mental health for

• possible slight protection from gastric bugs in first 12 months
• slight evidence of protection from asthma

all other controlled studies on breastfeeding do not bear out the other purported benefits - increased IQ and so on. Just add formula, do so without guilt, and be happy

Thanks all. To answer your question @Ileithyia yes my mum helps wind him, she can be a pain in the ass but she's not a dragon. She tskes him when she can but can not take him for a cuddle for very long because he cries and just wants food! Hence why I'm feeding him non-stop during the day and, as you can see from the time I'm posting this, in the middle of the night, too.

Thanks @mynannygoat7 Id love this to be true but I'm not sure about this. There are many, proven, long-term benefits. Even Emily Oster, who has cast doubt on the studies regarding the increase breastfeeding can have on IQ levels, admits that evidence does support a link between breastfeeding and outcomes for babies (and mother), particularly in improving digestion in the first year, lowers rashes for infants and is especially important for preterm babies. It also seems likely that it has some impact on reducing ear infections in young children and lowers the risk of breast cancer for the mother.

You're absolutely right, however, that my mental health and sleep are absolutely taking a battering. I just don't know if giving more formula would improve that. After a feed of 120ml of Cow & Gate tonight, he's still not sleeping...

Sent you a pm. Even if there is a milk transfer issue it doesn't mean the end of bf. There are solutions. Formula can be a good support in the early days, its not all or nothing. You've a huge gang here wishing you well, the early days are brutal!

Sent you a pm. Even if there is a milk transfer issue it doesn't mean the end of bf. There are solutions. Formula can be a good support in the early days, its not all or nothing. You've a huge gang here wishing you well, the early days are brutal!

Sent you a pm. Even if there is a milk transfer issue it doesn't mean the end of bf. There are solutions. Formula can be a good support in the early days, its not all or nothing. You've a huge gang here wishing you well, the early days are brutal!

Just to add if baby is putting on weight, he isn't starving. HVs are very good at spotting a baby who is failing to thrive, obviously only if the mother is going to regular checks. If your HV is happy with the amount gained every week, then he's getting enough milk.

I said about pace feeding in a previous post

Gaining enough weight doesn’t mean there isn't a problem. That is actually the reason why my baby's tongue tie and resulting reflux were missed by all professionals. Sleep was horrendous, he was so unsettled and also would feed constantly, for ages, stop a bit, then need some more. After lots of reading by myself, I finally thought about having his tongue tie checked again by a specialist (at my own costs as baby was then 8 weeks old) and she confirmed the tie. Things massively improved after the tie release, then feeding resolved within 2-3 weeks and sleep got much, much better.

I wonder if he has CMPA or silent reflux. My CMPA and reflux babies both seemed constantly hungry but their weight gain was okay - turned out they wanted to feed constantly to ease the pain.

Hi Jennifer,

I felt this in my soul. My breastfed baby was also a contact fiend who wouldnt settle and was always hungry. At 6 weeks I relented and gave him 3 ounces of formula. I think I followed the guide for his age on the box. I used to give him it at about 11pm and it was the only time he ever slept longer than 90 mins. I know they say about stretching breastfed babies tummies but he still fed absolutely fine and we all started to recover then. Just make sure to wind more than you think is needed. Eventually we got one 4 hour stretch of sleep each night this way. Our breastfeeding was completely unaffected and he weaned at about 18 months.

The other time he slept was post vaccination, maybe have your mum on standby to take over the day after any of those so you can get some sleep! Honestly, its horrific but it does pass.

I was making the point that the baby isn't 'starving'. As he is putting on weight. To suggest it sounds like guilt tripping to me. I haven't had a child with tongue tie or silent reflux so can't comment on that.

Now that you’ve given formula and he still isn’t sleeping I hope it’s given you some confidence that it isn’t your milk that’s the problem. Newborn babies don’t know night from day, that coupled with the fact they want to sleep as close to their mums as possible means he is being a typical newborn and no amount of milk will change that.

It’s true he might have reflux (is he sick a lot?) Or a tongue tie, but quite honestly in my experience this all sounds normal for such a young baby.

Co sleeping safely and breastfeeding is still my advice. I hope after giving formula and not seeing any change you’ve got a bit more confidence in your milk OP. Sending hugs. It’s a difficult time in those early months.

Have changed my response a bit as my kids are late teens and advice has changed...

If he’s feeding all day and never seems properly settled (rather than just normal cluster feeding), it might be worth considering reflux or CMPA (cows milk protein allergy).

Reflux can look like arching backwards, lots of hiccups/swallowing, seeming uncomfortable when laid flat, or feeding very frequently but not content. Holding upright for 20–30 mins after feeds and babywearing in the day can help.

Apparently tilting cot etc is not recommended anymore as isn't safe.

CMPA is more likely if there’s blood/mucus in poo, significant eczema, vomiting (mine didn't) or strong allergy history.

If you can’t put him down at all and you’re barely sleeping, that alone is reason to speak to your GP or health visitor and for them to take this seriously. Severe sleep deprivation is a health issue too and you deserve support.

If this feels more than "normal newborn stuff" it's sensible to push for help. Weight gain on paper can be unhelpful as showed they are thriving (which is good but doesn't get to the crux of the problem). So it's important to use the right phrasing to get them to take this seriously.

Instead of: “He cries all the time." say (if true) “He appears to be in pain/discomfort after most feeds - arching, stiffening and crying for X mins"

Mention sleep deprivation clearly: "I am getting about 3 hours of sleep in 48 hours because he can’t be put down. I’m concerned this isn’t sustainable or safe.”

Describe feeding behaviour precisely
“He feeds very frequently but doesn’t seem content afterwards.”
“He wants to feed again within 20–30 minutes and seems uncomfortable rather than hungry.”

If relevant, use any of these specific red-flag phrases for CMPA:
“There is mucus/blood in his stool.”
“He has significant eczema alongside the feeding issues.”
“He is vomiting large amounts after most feeds.”
“There is a strong family history of allergy.”
Any of these raise consideration of CMPA.

If you don't feel listened to, “I understand newborns cry, but this feels beyond typical unsettledness. I’d like this documented and reviewed.”

I don't want this post to be too long so I'll share some reflux tips in another post incase they're helpful.

I hope you can get to the breastfeeding group today. I wish I could do a proper feeding assessment for you but it’s impossible to do via mumsnet

When you are worrying about him ‘getting enough’ there are some simple checks;
Is he weeing & pooping plenty? (About 6 wet and and 2-5 poopy nappies each day)
Do you see pauses in his sucking when he’s latched?
Are your nipples sore?
Are your nipples rounded or ‘lipstick’ shaped after he’s fed?
And, weight gain.

The continued fussiness and endless feeding could be a simple latching issue, which breastfeeding group should be able to resolve, or it could be tongue tie, or cows milk allergy, which needs a referral to your infant feeding team.

As promised, following up with reflux tips if it feels relevant.

Cluster feeding vs comfort feeding
Some babies suck more for comfort than hunger - this is common in refluxy babies.

If you’re breastfeeding, you can encourage slower milk flow: Break latch for a few seconds if milk is flowing too fast (hand-expressing some milk first can help). I understand the first part is more watery anyway.

Try feeding in a more upright position to reduce fast swallowing of milk.

Smaller, frequent feeds - A half-feed more often is often better tolerated than a big feed that triggers reflux.

Burping & positioning
Gentle burping after feeds - just enough to release trapped air.Some babies like short burps mid-feed too. I mentioned that I would hold my baby under arm pits and supporting head, direct facing me - singing/talking distracting them while gently twisting slightly to encourage burp.

After feeds: keep upright for 20–30 mins
Babywearing (sling) works wonders — you can get basic things done while baby stays upright

Environment & comfort - calm surroundings during feeds, bright lights and noise can worsen discomfort. I doubt very much you're doing anything different!

Rocking or swaying gently (not vigorous) can help babies feel secure without triggering reflux

Warm bath or gentle tummy massage may soothe some babies, but avoid pressure on the stomach immediately after feeds

Watch for triggers

• Over-supply in breastfeeding (green frothy stools, constant sucking)
• Very fast milk let-down

If you switch to formula, some babies do better with dairy free, hydrolysed or thickened formula but might need medical advice.

Also to add reflux doesn't always mean vomitting. Burping/hiccups general discomfort could mean silent reflux. Mine possetted a lot but weren't sick.

I’m sorry @mynannygoat7 but this isn’t true. There are significant risks attached to artificial feeding. Yes Jennifer’s mental health is important, but it is possible to support her desire to breastfeed and her mental health. I’m trying to do this.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2812877/

https://www.msbfc.org/supplementing-just-one-bottle.html

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4686345/

Oh stop with this. OP is fully aware of the benefits and is determined to breastfeed. She doesn't need more materials pushing one agenda over another.

Let's not detail the thread around the benefits of bf or not and instead support the OP with advice to get through each day/night.