Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

That's very helpful and kind advice @Scottishdriver thank you

It's great he's putting on weight well, you're clearly doing a great job despite your lack of sleep.

There is no need to feel sad about formula top ups, OP. I really don't believe topping up with formula will inhibit your supply enough to disrupt breast feeding. What definitely will disrupt your milk supply is exhaustion, 3 snatched hours in 48 is not sustainable and you don't need to suffer through that.

If you haven't already, read up on foods that can help boost breast milk, they might be old wives tales but I felt the benefit. Luxurious porridge made with cream and brown sugar, and snacking on dark chocolate felt good to me. Also malt drinks like ovaltine. And in the night, to help wake me up I had a glass of strong squash and some biscuits to hand, a little sugar rush helped me gather my wits. It's a horribly lonely time in the middle of the night, anything you can do to bring yourself a bit of comfort helps.

I really hope you reap the benefits of the extra formula feeds very soon. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Definitely introduce a formula bottle at night. Then every single time he’s fed push a ribbon from a taggy or blanket into his hand. Most babies fall asleep when being fed so eventually he might associate the ribbon/taggy/blanket with sleeping so you can put him in his bed with that. The other thing to consider is to move the bassinet to your partners side of the bed if it’s directly next to you he will smell the milk.

Christ on a bike , how many times does the OP have to say that she is a completely single parent , there is no partner , it is just the OP .

Bone cracking is more chiropractors I think, than osteopaths.

The cranial osteopath, just moved baby very gently, applying gentle pressure to points of tension I think. It barely looked like she was doing anything. I really thought it was a quack doctor, but it really helped.

Re worrying about baby not sleeping until 2 ... As baby gets older and out of the first trimester, sleep isn't consistently bad. It is up and down. But honestly you get in a rhythm and really you just get used to it. The first month is brutal, because it is such an extreme change, plus you're exhausted from labour. Months 2-3 are pretty awful too. But after that, it ebbs and flows. Good nights, bad nights. Baby gets a bit bigger, cluster feeding subsides. You get out more, feel more alive. Baby starts being more interesting, smiling, laughing, moving, etc. Everything just gradually becomes easier and more fun.

There is a Facebook group called UK Cosleepers. If you want some advice about how to safely co-sleep and continue your feeding journey, it is very informative.

Baby breastfeeding 10-16 times a day is normal these first few months. It is doing what it should be doing. Nighttime feeding is biologically really important too.

Please reach out if you want a chat. Our journeys sound very similar.

The cranial osteopath, just moved baby very gently, applying gentle pressure to points of tension I think. It barely looked like she was doing anything. I really thought it was a quack doctor, but it really helped

It’s great you had a good outcome, but unfortunately it can sometimes end in tragedy. I’ve had colleagues who gave had babies with snapped necks and permanent damage from osteopaths who parents trusted as ‘they said they do babies all the time’. It’s not just been one I’ve heard if over the years either, we all shiver when we hear the words osteopath and baby used in the same sentence. While not common, it’s just not worth the risk.

How was last night @Jennifer48? I can see from reading all your posts that you don’t really want to give (more) formula, but that your mum (and a few others) have peaked your anxiety regarding bedsharing, which is a shame, because it really is safe and will help you survive these early weeks.

If your family are willing to help maybe they could take him for 3-4 hours in an afternoon, either with expressed milk or formula, so that you can have a solid uninterrupted chunk of sleep. If you can trust them to carry/hold/babywear him so that you can relax, a full 3-4 hour sleep cycle for you would make a huge difference. I say afternoon because the evening cluster feeds and night feeds are important for establishing and regulating your milk supply, so if you are happy to compromise with some formula (if you can’t express) then afternoons are a better time than evening/night.

Also, please get his tongue, latch and positioning checked by someone at a breastfeeding support group. Sometimes a tiny tweak in the way you are holding a baby to feed them makes a huge difference, and suddenly everything becomes less stressful.

Please just stop. You are talking absolute nonsense. You cannot teach a 3 week old baby to fall asleep by themselves, if OP tries to follow your advice it will cause even more stress. At this age babies only feel safe if they are in contact with a person, ‘drowsy but awake’ and so on are the stuff of sleep training and create false expectations for parents.

No you cannot teach a baby of 3 weeks to fall asleep by themselves. However all babies are different as I know well. My youngest hated 'fussing', hated swaddling, wouldn't take a pacifier, wouldn't sleep in a Moses basket but did like being put in a cot having been fed and while drowsy. An acquaintance was shocked that I didn't rock him to sleep, because that's what she did. He was like that from birth. He didn't need sleep training. He also has an ASD, so whether those were early symptoms is anyone's guess.
All anyone can do here is make suggestions,mostly based on their experience. The OP can reject any of them.

I really feel for you OP as I've been there with both of my babies but I had a partner to help. The first time I had a young baby who wouldn't sleep without me and I was totally unprepared and felt like I was going insane. The 2nd time I was prepared and having a different mindset really helped.

I'm not saying don't try and change things to improve sleep. But my experience is, with my first I was constantly googline researching trying to change this or that over analysing to try and improve her sleep, then at night I felt that because she wasn't hitting my expectations of how I imagined it would be....my whole mindset just didn't help and made it so much worse.

The only thing that helped my first was putting her in a sidecar cot, I didn't feel comfortable cosleeping in my bed. So we took the side off the cot and attached it to our bed, made it level etc, there's advice online about it. Then we practised feeding while lying down with her lying next to me. She still woke frequently but it was less effort.

With my 2nd I was fully prepared and my different mindset meant I had such a dofferent experience. If anything she's a worse sleeper than my 1st was (currently 6mo). But my expectations are totally different, I get comfy, have a drink and a snack next to me, and just take it one bit at a time, wake myself as little as I can to feed her back to sleep lying down. My 2nd also took a dummy which really helps. I didn't see 'night time is sleep time and day is awake time'. I tried to teach the baby this by sleeping in light in daytime and the dark bedroom at nighttime, but for me whenever I could get any sleep in 24h I took it.

Do look into medical things like tongue tie, and reach out for help elsewhere, honestly I'm shocked the HV told you to top up with formula, what outdated advice. If you're happy to do that, fine, but if you want to breastfeed you don't need to use formula. If baby is having wet nappies they're fine.

Agree all babies are different. With both of mine I had a sidecar crib and breastfed them to sleep. The first one didnt like a dummy, she liked to fall asleep on the nipple and it was really hard getting away! But my second likes to have some milk, then gets frustrated and prefers to switch to a dummy when she's full. So even with same parent and same strategy for sleep, they just have their own preferences. It's tricky figuring out what they want

@Jennifer48 don’t focus on the idea that it will take 2 years to get them to sleep. You will drive yourself insane. Just focus on things 24 hours at a time. Get through one period. Tick it off. Get through the next.

The reason the nurses are suggesting to give more formula at night is because they believe he needs more food (and if he’s really satiated he’ll sleep better). Which is probably true.

I’m confused why are you so sad about this suggestion?
you’d rather want a baby to be hungry than give him more formula?

Breast milk is food. Formula is food.
Fed is best.

The reason the mental health nurses are suggesting formula is not because he’s hungry or unsatisfied by OPs breastmilk, it’s because OPs mum can give formula, and formula takes longer to digest, and, it’s easy to coax a baby to drink more from a bottle and make them overfill. This can result in a slightly longer gap between feeds, (it can also result in vomiting and belly ache) and that’s why the nurses are suggesting formula. (Fed is not best, it’s a basic need, and what we feed our babies does matter, and OP has stated repeatedly that she doesn’t really want to give more formula)

Please, @Goldwren1923 don’t panic @Jennifer48 into thinking there is something wrong/lacking with her milk, her baby has gained 8oz in a week, her milk is clearly plentiful and nutritious. The baby is not sleeping because they keep putting him down in his pram or cot, instead of keeping him close. If OP is too anxious to cosleep then the next best thing is for her mum to hold the baby for a few hours so that OP can sleep.

I don't think you are helping tbh @Ileithyia .
You clearly have a strong pro-breastfeeding agenda and you are pushing this doggedly.

I am unashamedly pro-breastfeeding, but more than that I have read every one of @Jennifer48 posts on this thread and it’s clear that she doesn’t want to give formula. She also is reluctant to cosleep, so I have been trying to help with suggestions that fit what she wants, instead of ignoring what she has said is important to her and telling her to give more formula or leave her baby to cry.

Thank you for those of you checking in on
me and thank you for the practical advice.

@glitterpaperchain Thank you for taking the time to type that. I like your idea of the levelled down sidecar cot but you are right things are different when you have a partner whose child it is. Although my mother and sister are very helpful, I feel like I have to be very grateful to them for everything they do, because this is not their child. I could not really ask them to help me level down the cot plus I don't think it would make much of a difference anyway because I think it is the size of the cot that is too big for my tiny baby, rather than the actual level of it, which means that he will not settle in it.

@Goldwren1923 I thought I had been clear but maybe not. Do you honestly think i would want my child to go hungry rather than giving formula? As I've mentioned, it is the fact that he takes to the breast so so often and doesn't really seem settled after the breast and still seems hungry even after a bottle and a half of formula, in addition to so much time feeding at the breast. The antenatal breastfeeding class I attended mentioned that one of the signs breastfeeding is going well is that the baby is aettled after a feed, but my baby always wants more, no matter how long he's at the breast. I know he's tiny but is that is what perplexed me - and the sad feeling came from feeling my milk wasn't anywhere near enough for him, as well as the fact that various people are encouraging me to give him more formula, whereas others are staunchly against. The advice is very conflicting, however well- intentioned.

To top it all, I had shingles in October and I noticed the sharp and familiar tinglng of shingles exactly in the spot where I had it at Hallowe'en around my left ribcage, where I had it before so that's a worry.
Thank you all again.

Sorry if this has been said before but is there a breastfeeding support group near you? There is a group meeting around twice a week near where I live, same time same place, you just drop in for free. It's life saving!

This page can point you in a few directions. There are even helplines you can call.
https://www.nhs.uk/baby/breastfeeding-and-bottle-feeding/breastfeeding/help-and-support/

Yes, there is a breastfeeding support group in this small town. I plan on attending tomorrow if my baby isn't sleeping (because then I'd have to try to sleep at the same time).

Sorry just to be clear, you make it level with your bed so it's like you're cosleeping but baby is in its own space. Mine is next to me right now like that, it means I can roll over and feed her back to sleep and then roll away but we're not actually cosleeping in my bed as I'm too worried to do that. There's a great group on Facebook called biologically normal infant and toddler sleep, I highly recommend as I think it would really align with your values and there are a lot of really knowledgeable people in there

Hi OP can I check you've seen the suggestions around reflux? There are several things you've said that make me wonder; not settling on the breast being a major one (and might settle more on formula if it is thicker), gaining weight - reflux babies can over feed for comfort, not sleeping on back, hiccupy and so on.

I've posted some suggestions up thread but let me know if you want to me to add it again.

Yes I'm sorry @Goingncforthisone could you please post again or DM me as I don't think I saw them? Thank you.

That sounds like an excellent idea and taking your baby out will wear them out and hopefully you'll get a better sleep. I can remember the first night my baby slept through and it was when we had visited family, he was shattered, and missed a night feed! Best of luck I hope the support group does the trick for you.

I feel awful. My mother just came into my room and told me- correctly, I think- that he's starving and clearly he isn't getting enough from my breastmilk. I gave him a 70ml bottle of formula. After taking it, he was still screaming, absolutely blue in the face. This is after me not getting up from the chair today because I was breastfeeding him all day. He's now asleep in my arms, knackered (as am I) but I can't put him down because he wakes up when I do.**
The mental health nurse told me yesterday I must not co-sleep with him because I am so exhausted.

I'm sure your dm means well but she doesn't sound very supportive. Dd2 has an 11 week dd and I'm pretty sure I would never 'accuse' her of starving her especially if she was already distressed. I was never very successful with dummies but they can be useful.