Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

I especially want to thank @Lillizz @MyStickIsBetterThanBacon and @Thatsalineallright for your very thoughtful recent responses.

Totally get that - really hard. I was really just saying that I wouldn’t prioritise breast feeding if it means co sleeping. I’d prioritise safe sleeping.

I totally get that if that doesn’t work it’s very hard. Id personally be trying all the other things given risks of co sleeping.

I have a few options here, hopefully there is something in this list that will be near you that you can go to or call for some support.

I understand why the mental health team are suggesting formula in the evenings, but I’d honestly be very wary of doing this. They are mental health specialists, not necessarily breastfeeding and lactation specialists. He’s just coming out of a growth spurt, and your milk supply is still getting established. Giving more formula could disrupt his feeding pattern and your milk supply, which, if he’s gained 8oz in a week he’s clearly getting plenty, so your milk is supply is currently plentiful.

Contrary to what @HelicoPie says breastfeeding and cosleeping is far safer than formula feeding and having him sleep separate. Formula and separate sleep increase SIDS risk, where are breastfeeding and cosleeping are protective.

Have you had any success with expressing? If you want to get your mum to help with an hour or two in the evening you could express and she can look after him for a few hours from say 9pm, giving him expressed milk, whilst you get a solid chunk of sleep. This would be better than formula as it will maintain your milk supply.

Are you able to feed side lying? At night this is a great way to maximise sleep and rest, and is safer than sitting up to feed when you're exhausted because there’s no chance of baby slipping out of your arms into an unsafe situation if you do fall asleep whilst feeding.

https://www.breastfedbabies.org/supportgroup/strabane/breastfeeding-support-group-strabane

https://www.breastfedbabies.org/locations?keys=&type%5B%5D=support_group

https://www.barnardos.org.uk/get-support/services/strabane-surestart

Breastfeeding and cosleeping is safe sleeping. Your information is outdated and incorrect. Even the lullaby trust, who were staunchly anti-cosleeping, now give advice on safe cosleeping because breastfeeding is important, and formula increases SIDS risk. Please stop scaremongering.

My baby wants to suck on something all the time - we use a dummy otherwise the dummy would be me. He’s not necessarily hungry it’s just that babies have a strong sick reflex and it soothes them.

Also @Jennifer48 have you heard of the Fourth Trimester? This is a really helpful reassuring article from the NCT

https://www.nct.org.uk/information/life-parent/support-change/what-fourth-trimester

I had an appointment with mental health nurses this morning. They suggested I increase the formula in the evening so I get more sleep

That's nonsense. You obviously have plenty of breastmilk.

Just put your baby in a dark room, swaddled, and leave him for 15 mins.
Put headphones on.

He'll fall asleep in that time.

You need to stop picking him up!

He won't fall asleep if you keep picking him up. You're disturbing him.

No. Just no. Do not swaddle your 3 week old baby and leave them to cry for 15 minutes until they give up and fall asleep. This is abusive neglect and not one single child care organisation recommends it. Picking up a baby doesn’t disturb it, it soothes and nurtures and provides emotional regulation. This is terrible advice @TheBroonOneAndTheWhiteOne never suggest it to anyone again, please!

https://www.nhs.uk/best-start-in-life/baby/baby-basics/newborn-and-baby-sleeping-advice-for-parents/safe-sleep-advice-for-babies/

just referring to the NHS guidance - sleeping in a separate cot always better. Co sleeping not recommended when very tired.

A topic people have very strong views on and a link people draw between breast feeding and safe sleep. OPs thoughts on the topic seem sensible to me.

it is not scaremongering to flag the priorities and how they can link together. And echo NHS guidance. Often people are so pro breast feeding they ignore other risks or option of formula.

This page literally gives safe cosleeping advice It also warns that falling asleep sitting up holding your baby increases SIDS risk. If you are tired, it’s safer to make a safe bedsharing space and lie down. Following the safe sleep space guidelines and lying curled around your baby will allow you to sleep but prevent you from rolling on to your baby. The OPs mental health is suffering due to sleep deprivation, she needs to find a safe solution to get proper rest.

The first line is literally “It's always safer to let your baby sleep in their own cot or Moses basket in the same room as you”

Definitely not recommending falling asleep in an armchair so we agree on that front. I’m recommending the baby sleeps in a cot and OP sleeps in a bed in the same room.

I think it’s important to keep in mind that OP is looking for tips on sleep. Not breast feeding. It is for her to decide what order her priorities are.

that link gives a neutral view of the NHS on safe sleeping. It is not a pro breast feeding group or otherwise. It is the NHS. So best to read in full.

my opinion - I would not co sleep as I do not think it is safe. I dont think breast feeding or bottle feeding changes that analysis.

that link is a helpful one for OP to read and use to inform opinion. It’s only agenda is safety/health.

id feel better taking views on safety from the NHS.

Don’t be so ridiculous. You can’t be suggesting she puts a newborn baby in a dark room by themselves
and leave them to cry. Unbelievably neglectful.

Telling a mother to stop picking their baby up when they’re crying?! You’ve got to be on the wind up.

Babies are vulnerable and all they are seeking is comfort from the only source they know!

“my opinion - I would not co sleep as I do not think it is safe. I dont think breast feeding or bottle feeding changes that analysis.“

It absolutely does. The data on formula/breastfeeding demonstrates very clearly that formula feeding increases SIDS risk. Your opinion is misinformed.

’……that link gives a neutral view of the NHS on safe sleeping. It is not a pro breast feeding group or otherwise’

The NHS is pro breastfeeding. No well informed NHS clinician would recommend formula & cot sleeping over breastfeeding and shared sleep. Again, there are safe and unsafe ways to bedshare, and the information on safe shared sleep is clear and easy to follow.

Your information is outdated and not considered accurate anymore.

Breastfeeding and co sleeping safely is hugely recommended. It’s natural. It’s responsive. Don’t discourage a mother from breastfeeding or safely co sleeping with her baby.

Literally the current NHS website shared.

‘ I’m recommending the baby sleeps in a cot and OP sleeps in a bed in the same room.’

OP has been trying to do this for three weeks. It’s not working. Continuing to recommend it is not helpful. She needs alternate suggestions.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”

I would.never leave my baby in a darkened room crying and not pick him up.
I feel a bit sad that the mental health nurses suggested i give more formula at night to help my baby sleep because that's not in line with my preferences but I feel vulnerable and at this stage I don't know what's best. My mother and older sister are strongly pushing me to give him more formula, too.

Your logic here is rather odd - we are all trying to find a variable to change. I’m saying - I wouldn’t jump to making that changing the bed. Also - OP seems committed to breast feeding - so if that’s important I wouldn't change that either.

The Q is, what could she change. Lots will stay the same - a few things will change. It’s not insanity for me to suggest the bed stays the same…it’s not insanity for people to suggest feeding method stays the same … there are other options.

id try getting a good long sleep at a time of day someone else can take the baby for a walk or a drive. Be more rested short term to make a long term decision.

Safe cosleeping is perfectly safe for breastfed babies is because breastfeeding itself reduces the risk of SIDS.

In countries that have higher rates of cosleeping sids rates are far lower than the UK. This is partly due to the fact that the UK has one of the worst breastfeeding rates in the world (alongside other risk factors).

It isn't cosleeping itself that is unsafe, it is combination of less safe sleep environments, coupled with woefully low breastfeeding rates, smoking, cultural expectations over sleep, etc.

The op needs to set herself up to safely co-sleep, with baby feeding during the night, she will then helpfully get more restful nights. Baby won't sleep through, because babies are not designed to sleep through, especially at just a few weeks old. But overtime she will protect her much wanted breastfeeding journey, and also get more sleep.

Op - breastfeeding helps release oxytocin which will help with your mental health too, if you can overcome the sleep problem (which really will be over in the blink of an eye even though that is hard to believe now - I have been in your shoes and had sleep focussed PND/anxiety too and I didn't believe it when anyone said to me I would sleep again so it is hard to believe when you're in the thick of it!). My sister persuaded me to co-sleep and I never looked back. The first 6-8 weeks as brutal, but after that it really does get easier.

I just had a thought, have you thought about seeing a specialist infant cranial osteopath? We saw one with my little one and it did really help with his sleep. Anecdotal evidence I read before I took him was that it helped significantly more babies than it had no impact on so I took the plunge and was so glad I did. I think he had 3 or 4 sessions and after each one his sleep got a little better.

Thank you for your answer @NailsForChristmas The problem is when I hear or read people who say they had children who didn't sleep until they were 2 or 2 and a half- and I can't go on like this already as things are.
I have heard of cranial osteopathy but don't know exactly that it entails. When I've seen an osteopath myself in the past, the session entailed cracking (!) or manipulating my bones quite firmly- surely a cranial osteopath is not going to do that with a baby?! What does it entail, please?

It won't help.
You need to help your baby to fall asleep.
When he's full, put him down.
Don't pick him up.
You're not leaving him long enough to fall asleep by himself. You keep picking him up just as he's trying to drop off.

The cranial osteopath I used very gently manipulated the baby, she felt for areas of tension and released them while baby was sleeping- no pain at all. She could tell how the birth was and position the baby was in in the womb from the treatment and told me how the baby had tension from aspects of this. It was a very positive experience. My baby who had osteopathy at two weeks old was definitely a more comfortable baby than the one who didn’t (and woke every 30 minutes through the night).

At this point, I would stress that you should do what works for you. You are exhausted so choosing any option which gets you more than 3 hours sleep in 48 hrs is reasonable. BF and formula are both reasonable choices, either on their own or combined. People have lots of views one way or the other but while you are in the thick of it, only you can decide what you want to try. None of the suggestions on this thread will guarantee things will improve either, they are just things that some of us have found helpful at various stages. But time will help more than anything.

also what you need to get you through the next few days might not be your preference, but it doesn’t have to restrict your options longer term.

if you want to keep BF, but just need to get some rest, then you can always pump (you might be able to borrow a pump through the HV). When I had mastitis I couldn’t even hold my baby I was delirious and in so much pain. I sent my DP out at midnight to the 24hr Tesco for formula and made him take my son with him. My DM came through and took over feeding through the night with formula, and she woke me every 3-4 hours to pump as she knew I wanted to keep BF. It gave me many hours of rest and broke the worst of my fever and I felt stronger after 12-18hrs of a break. I went on to BF my son till he was 12m. Using formula at that critical point kept me BF if that makes sense?

im not saying this is what is needed for you. I don’t think it sounds like BF is your problem as such, it’s horrific sleep deprivation, baby sounds pretty normal for a formula or BF baby.

But my advice is it’s okay to do whatever you need to do now, and whatever works for you. Sadly there is no magic cure, and (mostly) no wrong options. Try a few different things (I tried most things on this thread at one point or another) and hopefully something will help, sometimes you need to do something consistently for a few days to see results BTW, but try not to worry too much about all the views of what is right and wrong and the breast vs formula debate. You can take all the advice here, and from your mum etc and still do something completely different, and that’s okay. Your views and the needs of your and your baby are the most important here. Xx