Please help Newborn baby - I can't go on with no sleep.

[Jennifer48]

I am posting because my mental health is taking a battering due to sleep deprivation since I gave birth to my beautiful baby on 26 January. I have slept just a few scattered hours since then. The nights are excruciating: the baby doesn't sleep at nights, he certainly doesn't settle in the cot and just howls if he isn't at my breast/stomach or on a pillow in front of me, and obviously I can't sleep in that position.
I am, after a shaky start, breastfeeding him, which I am glad about, but if me getting sleep entails moving on to formula, I will do it but I want to make sure it will definitely result in my getting sleep because that's what's breaking me. I manage to express some milk but giving it to him at night does has no impact on the situation at all. His nappies and weight gain are all good and he is back at his birth weight so he is getting sufficient nutrition from the breast, but won't sleep anywhere other than against my chest, stomach or on a pillow in front of me for longer than five minutes- and obviously I can't fall asleep in that position. I hear parents talk about getting three or four hours or sleep with envy; I literally have got none the past two nights and was almost delirious, I nearly fell with him in my arms last night (thankfully I didn't).
I've heard that's not unusual for a baby not to stay in the cot but I've also heard this phase could go on for weeks or months.. but I am at breaking point now- imagining things, feeling extremely low. There is no joy in this.

I just wanted to add OP, I’m currently breastfeeding my second baby he’s 13 weeks old- it is so so normal for baby to be on the boob almost constantly for the first 6-8 weeks ish. It doesn’t mean your milk is not satisfying, it doesn’t mean you don’t have enough milk, it is totally and completely normal. It’s how your baby puts their order in, teaches your body what they need, and it does get easier once you fall into a routine with it. X

I'm a totally single mother, there's no dad on the scene. My mother, with whom I live, thinks co-sleeping with a three week old baby is very dangerous. I know it's my choice, but that obviously makes me very anxious.

Thank you @MatronPomfrey

@Jennifer48 I don’t mean to be rude but why are you living with your mother and if that was an active choice did you not discuss care of the baby / her views on sleeping etc before . At the end of the day this is your baby , if you want to co sleep and give him a dummy then that is your decision to make .

I am a gm and 2 of my dd have dc. My youngest dgc is 11 weeks old and the others are 21 months and almost 4. I don't always agree with what they do but I wouldn't give them too much of my opinion as it is their baby not mine. It is my job to support them. Remember you are an adult, your dm probably had her last dc years ago and things have changed (my youngest is 18), respect her views but it's your baby.

It absolutely is normal. It is also normal for parenting not to go to plan. You are doing a good job.

also are you doing the floppy arm test before you put baby down? I used to feed mine and then let them sleep on me until their arms go floppy, you lift ithevarm up and it flops back down. Then I knew they were deep enough sleep I could put them down in the cot next to the bed (worked like a charm with number 1, worked sometimes with number 2 - but sometimes is better than never).

good luck OP.

It could be worth considering silent reflux if baby gates being on his back and drinks a lot of milk. My first was exactly like this, she leapt from 20th centile to 75th as a baby as she drank so much and hated lying down flat, but could sleep forever on my chest. We saw a cranial osteopath in the end which was a really great experience and helped get some 2-3 hour stretches of sleep in.

On the not knowing night from day thing, try and get baby outside during the day, apparently they need daylight to help to train their bodies to recognise night/day. Works even if asleep in the buggy. Things will start to get a little easier I promise xxxx

Some babies are sucky babies and need a dummy - they are recommend to help reduce Sid’s and can really help settle a baby - so give it a try

using a dummy or formula doesn't make you a bad mum or a failure as a mum - doesn’t matter your sisters exclusively breast feed

I do think you need to see a breast feeding consultant to check latch and how he feeds but it is normal for a baby of a few week old to be at the boob a lot and it is draining and tiring and literally sucking the life out of you

you need to make sure that you get enough sleep and eat a good diet and drink liquids which will help you breast feed

as long as you keep trying to bf or express when give a bottle , your supply will be fine

yes your baby seems to want to be cuddles /held but if you can put down , which your mum managed with some pushing /rocking then you get a break and baby gets some sleep

breast feed him but sounds like he’s a hungry baby so offer a bottle after and express to make sure boobs drained .

I still think 70ml isn’t a lot and I would be making and offering 120 but do pace feed so that baby works for it and doesn’t overfed and will stop when full

an once fed and topped up and swaddled then yes put down and see if will sleep

the fact he took 70 and another 70 meant he was hungry an maybe why isn’t settling

That's not rude, it's a reasonable question. I was going to go it alone and had contacted doulas, student midwives and night nannies to help me out following the birth in the city where I've lived and worked for several years. That was the plan until the end of November. My mother had suggested, around Halloween or thereabouts, that I come back to the area I grew up in to give birth, however I had dismissed it st the time. I had a bad fall in the street on the last day of November and became terrified of falling again and very worried about being on my own. I suggested coming back to where I grew up (as my mother had suggested it herself a few weeks prior) and she agreed.
On balance, the benefits of being here outweigh the disadvantages, but of course there are disadvantages.

The vast majority of mothers co sleep OP.

Please please read this and make an informed decision:

https://www.lullabytrust.org.uk/baby-safety/safer-sleep-information/co-sleeping/

The risk of you falling asleep currently in an unsafe position is so huge on such little sleep.

Please do get the latch or tongue tie checked again, it’s worth a second opinion
My baby was cleared for tongue tie at the hospital, but then was constant hungry and feeding, exactly like you.
A private specialist (recommended by the midwife) came and said she DID have one. As soon as she snipped it, baby was suddenly feeding properly and sleeping for longer!

It really does sound like a tongue tie issue to me . They can be easily missed!

I'm currently excludively breastfeeding my 2nd baby, she's 6 months, and she also has a pacifier. It helps her sleep. There's nothing wrong with it

Edited to add - there are some studies that show using a pacifier can decrease the risk of SIDS

It’s your baby so it’s irrelevant about what your sisters did. I wanted to EBF my son. My milk was never the best. He had a pacify and top up from early on. He’s now a tall sporty boy at a top uni. Trust me how they are fed is never discussed once they get to school.
I see you are from NI. My DH is from NI and I know GP seem to be quite heavily involved in child care etc. It’s ok to have your own opinion on what you would like to do. My MIL would try to offer (and still does) all sorts of advice based on what my nephew does. My DH has to remind her they are different children.

I hope youre doing OK today. You sound amazingly strong and given the sleep deprivation your patience with posters who haven't read the thread is superb! I would get the latch checked... just in case hes not transferring well. Its great that your family bf as you automatically have more peer support but a lactation consultant is money well spent. Unlike most on here I actually didn't co sleep much, I had a co sleeping cot but they weren't in the bed. I couldn't relax with them in the bed but they stayed in my room for 6 months. But a fed warm well baby can sleep in a cot or buggy. Your health is important too.

Some good info/advice around breastfeeding:

https://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/nb-challenges/back-to-breast/#coax

One of the reasons for babies falling asleep, especially at breast, is low milk flow. Breast compressions can help with that. See here: https://ibconline.ca/information-sheets/breast-compression/

Some videos that show good latch Vs 'nibbling'. https://ibconline.ca/breastfeeding-videos-english/

Laid back breastfeeding can be good to improve latch.

General info and tips: https://ibconline.ca/information-sheets/latching-and-feeding/

If giving bottle, I second PP on paced bottle feeding. Here's a video:

If you're worried about how much food baby is eating, I recommend weighing him regularly. So long as your baby is gaining weight, you know he's getting enough food. The app 'child growth tracker' can be useful - lets you see if your baby is staying on track (doesn't matter if your baby is 5th or 95th percentile, what matters is that they are following along their curve).

ETA: a good lactation consultant could be worth the money. Some offer home visits or even online sessions which, while not as good as in-person, might be more manageable for you to arrange. Try to find an ibclc certified consultant.

Good luck! Wishing you and your baby all the best.

“The risk of you falling asleep currently in an unsafe position is so huge on such little sleep.”

This. Nodding off sitting up is much more dangerous than safely deliberately cosleeping. @Jennifer48 I do understand your anxiety, especially as your mum is cautioning you against it, but advice has changed in the 20-something years since your mum was caring for babies, new information means we now know more, and if it’s just you and baby in a double bed it’s very easy to be safe together. And, if you want to avoid conflict don’t tell your mum he’s in your bed. How would she know??

Please please look for some breastfeeding support. What is your nearest city, I will find you contact details of people who can help you.

I really hope you are still reading, so much good advice.

Agree you are at such a low sleep level now that you need to think about breaking your own rules, formula and pacifiers and not the horrors they are made out to be. They can be useful tools to support breastfeeding. Don't let snobbish attitudes get in the way of you helping yourself and your son.

Once a baby is full, a pacifier can be a real help. It's not the same as it was in the 80s/90s, advice has changed. I was also against them but 'gave in' and never looked back. My mother raised her eyebrows a little (she was mostly v supportive), but then again both her children sucked thumbs/fingers - my sister still does, none of my boys still have a dummy! If they are sucky babies they'll find a way.

And please don't compare to your sisters experience. Babies are as unique as us adults are and each need their own tweaks to thrive. Yours might have a tongue tie, he might have reflux. Mine had both, my sister's didn't. My sister's babies suffered with ear problems, mine didn't. There is no one size fits all.

Lastly, please make sure you eat well and rest, even if not asleep. The adults around you have one role - it is to provide you with food and drinks and support you with the essential practicalities such as laundry. You just need to recover strength, and focus on you and your baby.

My lovely mum used to say to me "he's your baby, you know best"...this infuriated me slightly as I was clueless! What I later realised was she meant "he's your baby, these are your decisions to make"

I wish you well. Deep breaths, make some decisions. X

Hi OP,

I hope you’re doing ok, I’m still following to see how you’re getting on!

I just wanted to reiterate what a lot of other people are saying here- just do what works for you, nothing you choose to do is going to have a massively negative impact on your child aside from falling asleep in completely unsafe environments because you’re so exhausted. What family members did has no bearing on what you do.

Also, to reiterate again, we now do recommend dummies until 4-6 months after BF is established to reduce SIDS risk. I am a Dr, this is the current medical advice.

As a mother, I did have very similar difficulties and in the end (after weeks of tears and even a hospital admission for myself due to exhaustion) it just turned out my baby was more hungry than the milk my body was able to produce for him in the sleep deprived, exhausted state I was in. In my case all the tongue tie checks/ solutionising/ thinking I wasn’t feeding him properly/ repeated medical visits was just making me more stressed and actually the simplest explanation and my gut were right, he was just too hungry and I didn’t produce enough breast milk. Giving him formula was the best decision I made, we were both miserable before. I’m not saying this to tell you to do the same, I’m saying you need to follow your gut because you are the one seeing how he is responding to different things.

@Ileithyia This is extremely kind of you, thank you. I'm based in Strabane, N. Ireland, and I have some contacts for breastfeeding support.

A health visitor came out this afternoon and weighed my baby: my wee man has gained 8 and a half oz since this day last week.

I had an appointment with mental health nurses this morning. They suggested I increase the formula in the evening so I get more sleep.

tell your health visitor / GP that you are not committed to breast feeding and would like to discuss options to help including formula. The NHS never proactively talk about alternatives to breast feeding unless you raise it first. But once you do the options if support open. Tell them you want to discuss it.

Also - co sleeping is not recommended because it’s not considered safe.

To anyone who suggests breast feeding with co sleeping is somehow a good compromise, compared to formula and not co sleeping - that’s very much not based on safety advice but a view that breast feeding is a high priority.

You are completely right to be saying breast feeding is good, but co sleeping a risk, so formula and safe sleep the next option. That’s sensible and in line with advice.

if the baby is in a cot, crying is upsetting but not unsafe.

try things like white noise machine, a dummy, formula.

You're not wrong, formula is absolutely a good alternative in lots of situations and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, but what if baby still won't sleep in a cot (like mine wouldn't)? I have a partner and he used to hold the baby so I could get some sleep. I always assumed that she was sleeping for him (in his arms) but he told me recently that she wasn't! He was just holding an awake baby for hours and managing to keep her quiet enough that I could get some sleep (keeping her quiet did involve pouring copious amounts of expressed milk followed by formula milk into her, none of which made any difference).

At the 2 month mark I gave in and co-slept (partner was back at work and we both needed sleep), because I was desperate. I had been completely against it until that point but the child would not sleep in a separate space. Cosleeping surely is less dangerous than not sleeping at all!

And thank to everyone for your suggestions, kindness and empathy.

I tried the baby in his new baby swinger. At £130, it wasn't the cheapest. I put him in it buy because he's always so hungry, he just sucked his fingers and then wailed until I took him out.😂

I've mentioned upthread - no worries if you didn't see it, this thread is long- that white noise has no impact whatsoever.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but he sounds like a pretty normal 3 week old. He's about to hit a growth spurt and is cluster feeding, particularly at night when your prolactin levels are highest. It is really important not to interrupt this with formula top ups or it drags on for longer. I have been there 3 times myself. Breast sleeping saved my sanity, along with the swing, for my eldest child. She really liked motion and contact napping.
If you haven't already, try breast sleeping, baby wearing and a swing. Go out for walks with baby in the sling. It will be beneficial for both of you. Try the Wonder Weeks app, it will pre warn you of "leaps" and growth spurts, which both affect feeding. You can then spot the signs and be reassured of what is normal and how long it should last. Finally, see your midwife or health visitor for support. It sounds like you would benefit from some additional input now, not later. See your GP in a pinch, but get someone professional in place, so you can call on them when needed. Sending massive hugs. xx

Would having a doula in help? I am wondering if you have limited confidence as you are having a lot of opinions inputted by your Mum and Sister? They would make space for you to understand how you want to parent and what your baby needs etc. also agree with getting La Leche league / independent breast feeding advice in (perhaps the doula?)